Lord of Chaos (Book 6) -- Discussion thread WITH SPOILERS

[HoopyFrood]

Seeing as someone hasn't started it yet

I've made it past the opening prologue. Some bits I could take or leave -- the Morgase sections still aren't doing much for me and I don't even care about knowing anything that Gawyn's up to at the moment -- but other bits were quite interesting.

Seeing as a stasis box has suddenly been mentioned by the Chosen, I'm guessing that's the box that the Shaido woman has got her hands on.

As I said in the other thread, as suspected we got to see more of the Dark One, which was cool.

This man and woman pair at the very end of the chapter was interesting. The POV person referred to himself as a Chosen One, they're both supposed to be able to channel, they slept for a long time, came back, then slept again, they've been brought back to life, unlike Rahvin who was taken out of the pattern completely, and one of them is stressing about the body they've been put in. Ergo, I'm guessing they're the two Chosen that were first to die in the very first book. Good job I reminded myself about them just the other day, else I probably would've not considered them.

I've only seen a page or so for Semirhage but for some reason I think she's my favourite. I think I just have a thing for crazy, mad-powerful women. I haven't seen the Man of Steel film yet, but I have a little bit of a crush on Faora just from the clips I've seen of her.



Anyway, I've also been thinking a bit about people who could play Wheel of Time characters lately and a couple really leapt out at me.

Carrie Fisher, as she was in Star Wars days, would be a great Moiraine. She's described as being quite small, like Carrie, and I think Carrie could definitely pull off that "I'm not telling you anything I don't want to" thing and she's already played a royal character that's also kick-ass, so she's got that down.

And Semirhage -- I think Gina Torres (Zoe from Firefly) could make a great Semirhage. She's tall and imposing but also has that elegant 'don't mess with me' look. Like she looks here.

Those are the two that has seemed perfect in my mind so far, no others have really popped in my mind as of yet.

 

[Erin99]

Oh, sorry I haven't been here for a couple of days! Docs appointments, a blood test, etc. SO happy to see your book arrived!!! Yay! And you picked up on my hint about "long overdue".


Heh, does that mean you ever deciphered my end-of-book-nine words of "One of the things we've been waiting for since the series began"?

Speaking of ending... this book. Yes. Heh. Heh.

Anyway, when I read the Dark Lord scene I was excited. I was actually getting to see him!!! Sort of. And... hmmmm. I do like your reasoning about the resurrected people. I hadn't thought that until much later. But... doesn't one have breasts?

Yeah, the Morgese sections weren't always the most interesting, mainly because I'd grown so used to the few main leads that it felt weird stepping into someone else's shoes. But there aren't too many other POVs at least.

Oh! And as for who would play them in a movie, I'd seen this a while ago and liked some of its choices (WARNING: Hoopy, please stop as soon as you see characters you don't know, 3/4 of the way through or so!!!): Wheel of Time Fan Cast - YouTube


Weirdly, I don't really have anyone in mind, though I LOVE(!!!!!) the one in the vid above for Thom Merrilyn. That is a definite YES from me. As for Carrie, I'd definitely pick her over the one in the vid. At least she can act! I'd have to have someone with vivid blue eyes, though, because that's my lasting memory of Moraine; black hair, vivid eyes, small.



Well, here's hoping you keep enjoying these books enough to read on. Some would say the books start slowing now, but I found more than enough to keep me hooked. Only book 11 was terrible (and only during one thread, imo), though the pace was A LOT slower than usual.

As Ratsy says, I like it! Go, you!

 

[HoopyFrood]

Yeah, that's what I meant about stressing about the body. They way it was all talked about made it sound odd, and I just generally got the feeling said person was previously in a male body.

The tall Halfman said something about the mind and body attuning themselves, which I took for him saying "shut up, it's just a body, get on with it".

 

[Erin99]

So, where now?

I haven't had much chance to stalk you this time (for which I'm immensely annoyed). I love hearing where you are and browsing the book to refresh my memory.


Ahem. No, it's not really an excuse to live in Jordan's world a little longer. Oh no...

 

[HoopyFrood]

Um, yeah. Totally read loads. Definitely not still at pretty much the same point...

 

[HoopyFrood]

Just finally had a look at the cast video (on the laptop at last) and there are a fair few I can agree with (and a few a bit blah). I definitely liked Mat and the first Perrin. Sam Elliott sprang to mind before I saw this video -- he was the perfect Lee Scorsby in the Golden Compass and he would be the perfect Thom.


Also, I'm now almost 380 pages in though I don't feel like I have a great deal to comment on yet. I just want to keep getting back to Ny (and hoping that in each new chapter something big'll happen) and the Niall and Morgase sections I just pretty much skim read. The best bits are the Chosen sections, I love reading about that dastardly lot. Semirhage being all scary and torture-y. I can't help it, she's one of my favourites already. Her and Ny should go off together and just generally be awesome powerful.

 

[Erin99]

I'm baaaaack! Phew. I thought life had sucked me away for good there.

One of the cast list you won't have seen is Semirage, who comes near the end. They chose Halle Berry (sp?). However, having just been lent Firefly recently, I can now say your choice of Torres is much better! You have to see her in a role to make up your mind (well, I did). I'd seen her in Xena, but didn't really think of her one way or the other because it was such a small role. But in Firefly she really shines.

I did like the Mat and first Perrin, too. However, I remember not liking Mat when I first saw the vid! Then again, I think I'm coming around to their Rand as well.


Anyway, you DO have a thing for the Forsaken! LOL! Yeah, I always found their chapters interesting. It's great that they're power-hungry behind the scenes. Makes them much more menacing. And the WoT old-timers had so much fun guessing who/where some of them where! Years were spent on figuring out who Demandred was pretending to be and what he was doing.

You should like Ny in this book, too, if you like her doing awesome things. I'm sure it's this book she does something wowing. It was some people's favourite "OMG" moment! (*goes and checks* Ah yes, it is!) As the WoT summary lady writes on Tor.com: "Nynaeve [doing something] still stands as one my biggest personal “Holy Crap” moments in all of WOT. As in, I was like, holy crap. I was astonished."

I'd been waiting for it, personally, cos Jordan seems to like reversing expectations. However, for me in this book, the end words just before the Epilogue beat it. The thrill of them!!!

 

[HoopyFrood]

I did see Semirhage (I wanted to see the Chosen cast picks and don't worry, honestly, I wasn't paying any attention to any of the names that came up, mostly because none of them rang any bells or anything). But yeah, bleh, Halle Berry. Gina Torres is awesome. And Firefly definitely so!

I'm now 700 pages in and I loved Ny's awesomeness. I had a feeling it would happen eventually -- I think she's going to continue being crazy powerful in healing, maybe Rand does seem to die in the last battle like predicted, but she brings him back -- but who she did it to first was surprising!

And what I guessed for Egwene has now also happened. I've steadily grown to really love her in this book in particular. I love how she's turning into far more than anyone will expect. I love that's she's got that Aiel side to her. And I especially love that she even scared Mog. Go Eggy!

 

[Erin99]

If you're anything like me, who saw a couple of names I wasn't supposed to in the vid, you'll forget the names soon enough anyway, because they don't mean anything to you.

But yeah, I could see Torres being great at inflicting pain and torture. She'd be quite menacing in the role! As for Firefly... I can't make up my mind! It's fun and light-hearted, and I definitely love the characters... but for the first half a season I felt no conflict or tension, and the main plot never really went anywhere. If it had, perhaps the season wouldn't have been cancelled? There was certainly potential there. I shall miss Kaylee!!!


And whoa! So you're 700 pages in now! LOL, such a fast reader. I LOVED Ny in that part! She's awesome - but everyone wants to break her block now! I had fun guessing how she could break her block and what her block was. As for your theory, well, I'm stalling on the last book because I don't want it to end, so I shall soon see if Mr Rand dies as predicted and such. Ooh!!! Nervous...

Also, I'm purposefully waiting to read the "New Spring" novel Jordan wrote as a companion book to the series, since I'll want another Jordan fix after I finish this. I could have read the book after.... I think it was after book 9 when it was released... but I wanted to save it. It'll be sad to read it! However, there's one more bit of WoT goodness I can buy once I've finished the series and save some money - a deleted scene that Branderson wrote for the final book, which features in the ebook Unfettered, a collection of mish-mash stories from top authors to raise money for a US author who couldn't afford his health bills. [LONG-TIME WoT FANS TAKE NOTE! Heh.]


Oh! Anyway, Egwene - I LOVE her! She's so awesome! She really is the stand-out character in some of the later books, personally. I guessed she'd find herself in the position she's in, too - what a great moment when the Aes Sedai summoned her in Ter'anleroid (whatever it's called!). I'm glad you're pro-Eg; some people really don't like her. I have a feeling you'll find her scenes as awesome as I did in the later books. She even beats Ny, imo.

 

[HoopyFrood]

854 and determined to make a run for the end.

But just had to say that I laughed loudly when Ny booted Mat's bum. He really does ask for it much of the time.

 

[HoopyFrood]

I'm on the mobile so I'm not spoiler hiding so a warning, if youre going to read book six STAY AWAY FROM THIS POST.

OK?

Go on. Look away.

Right, so...




Firstly, Aran'gar was definitely a man previously. First, she leads in dances, a hint. Then it outright says it in the epilogue in that Egwene feels a man break Mog's collar (argh, she's free again!) and most importantly she uses saidin, not saidar.

I've been waiting and waiting for Perrin to summon a giant pack of wolves and now finally!

There's a review at the beginning of the book that days there's a kidnap at the end but I really did NOT expand it to be Rand! Not in the slightest!

I love every bit where Lews Therin cottons on a bit more that there's someone else there.

And of course, what a battle. When I only had forty pages left and things hadn't happened I was really worried Jordan was going to overlap it into the next book.

Holy hell, Taim's Asha'man (note that I don't say Rand's -- this could seriously backfire on Rand especially if...more on that in a second). Exploding Shaido. That was seriously gruesome. I can't believ they've got all these mad Power powers already, it's scary.

But yeah, if Taim is forsaken (they get everywhere) then crap. His little bit (taking it that it is him) at the very very end with Bill sounds like he's laughing at how well he's wormed in with Rand. But for god sake, Rand, maybe start listening to Lews and maybe spare a brief thought that he thinks about Forsaken and has such a strong urge to kill Tail whenever he's around. Fool.

 

[Erin99]

Since you didn't spoiler it, I'll not. WARNING: SPOILER ALERT!!!!




Wohooo, you finished! Record timing. Aaaaand our survey says: BING! Well done for getting the leading-in-dances part. I never noticed! So, what mischief will s/he get up to in Salidar, hmmm?

I was oh-noing when Mog was set free, too. She only just got captured!!! She DESERVED to be captured!!! Darn sex-changing baddies!!!

Have to say, I LOVED the wolves rushing in as well. I'd been waiting for that! Wolf-boy's come a long way already. And for someone who's so gentle and thoughtful, he's sure aggresive on the battlefield.

And heh. Yeah, that Rand kidnap was AWESOME! And what they did to him...!!! And how he reacted! Sheesh. I loved Min in this book, too. She really made me care for her. She stuck by him no matter what. But yeah, I remember being worried that this supposed great ending wouldn't actually be so great, once I was 40 pages from the end. But then it all just went MAD! That was a most epic battle, and yeah, those Asha'man! Rand wanted "weapons" when he made the Black Tower, and he got them.

However, I should point out that it was a long, long, long-running question to WoT fans as to who Taim really was. Is he Demandred, or is Demandred posing as someone else? Dun dun DUUUUN. I um-ed and aah-ed so much, and Jordan got BUGGED by fans demanding the answer to that!

As for Rand not listening to Lews... well, he can't afford to. He needs weapons for the Last Battle, and if he has to rely on a baddie to make that happen, to train channelers whilst he goes off fulfilling prophecies... so be it. I think by this book Rand is starting to realise that he can't be so nice any more and has to use whatever he can get in order to defeat the Shadow.


Exciting stuff!


If you do want the next book, you can get it by searching for the item no 9780812550283 on eBay mobile, or by going here: A Crown of Swords 9780812550283 by Robert Jordan, Paperback, BRAND NEW | eBay Unfortunately, I can't see the US edition for cheaper than that. Weird!


Edit: I forgot to say, I LOVED the moment when Lews finally replied to Rand, in the box. I was like "I knew he was real!!!"

 

[HoopyFrood]

Yeah, it really shows how different the channeling men and women are at the moment. Women have had the time to learn all that they can, while the men are being made for one purpose only.

Part of me does wonder if Rand might even suspect Taim; as said all the time, he's using what he can.

Just realised it's strange that there was no mention of Asmodean. You'd think Rand would have been worried about a seemingly runaway Forsaken?

Two bits I loved -- Rand being beatn to crap but smiling at her as she did so.

And when the box exploded! Woo!

I am eye-weepingly broke at the moment, but I shall go see this next book...

 

[Erin99]

!!!STILL MAJOR SPOILER ALERT!!!



Ack. Sorry to hear you're broke too. I wish I had money to buy you it. In fact, I'd buy you all of them!

But yeah, that box-exploding moment - wow! Jordan's great at those. I was SO rooting for Rand when that happened. I can't imagine what that kind of torture can do to a person. Well, I know what it will do to Rand, anyway.

And hmmm. I remember Rand DOES show his miffedness at Asmodeon "escaping", but if it wasn't in this book, it'll be near the start of the next. It IS weird if it wasn't remarked upon immediately after the event, though. Unless.... maybe Rand always expected something like that to happen, since it's one of the Forsaken? I was surprised at how long he stayed with Rand. Maybe he expected another Forsaken to haul him away? I dunno. Should have been made clearer.


Oh!!! Oh! I can't believe I forgot to say the most important thing of all! The end scene, where the Aes Sedai bow to Rand. That left me screeching. I loved the last few lines. I just looked them up again, and they give me goosebumps:

[MAJOR MAJOR SPOILER ALERT!]

"On a day of fire and blood, a tattered banner waved above Dumai's Wells, bearing the ancient symbol of Aes Sedai.

On a day of fire and blood and the One Power, as prophecy had suggested, the unstained tower, broken, bent knee to the forgotten sign.

The first nine Aes Sedai swore fealty to the Dragon Reborn, and the world was changed forever."​

OMG! I remember LOVING those lines for a loooong time. However, I've now found even better end-of-chapter words in the book I'm on. Only lessened by the fact that it's probably not Jordan who wrote them this time. Unless...

*is hopeful*

 

[HoopyFrood]

Considering how much Rand threatened Amsodean if he tried anything/ran off you'd think he'd be a bit more concerned. Something that made Amsodean's apparent death more annoying to me is that it seemed like he'd just decided that he really was in for the long haul and was on Rand's side. Maybe the very thought of it sealed his fate

One thing I do like about the characters -- they're like children in some respects (*cough* relationships, dear god, relationships *cough*) but they are very shrewd and cotton onto things quickly. Like Eg knowing exactly why she was raised to Amrilyn. I like that, because other characters in other books drive me mad when they can't even put 1 and 1 together.

The ending was something. After six books of Aes Sedai doing everything and being in charge, it just feels...so wrong! That they're kneeling. Jordan certainly built them up enough that this very action just feels so mad. But then they were all being very crafty in the least and others being outright nasty so it's not surprising that Rand is seriously putting his foot down.

So, I've decided, what I want to see in the next book. Semirhage gets her hands on Rand and he's all "oh, noes, a pretty ladee, I can't kill pretty ladeez!" and she's all "LOL, you're a tool" *horrible, mind bending torture*. Yeah!

 

[Erin99]

I REALLY like your thinking, Ms. Frood! I reeeeeeeally like it. But there's still seven books left...


As for Asmodeon, Seph and I discussed that and we decided that Asmo didn't think there was a way for him to recover and so he threw in his lot with someone who didn't want him dead (cos the Forsaken would after he'd aided the goodies). Plus, upon his capture, Lanfear mentioned how much of a wuss he was.

And yeah, weirdly, this series has taught me the opposite to you. Not all characters need to know *everything* and make 100%-right guesses. They can misunderstand each other, not be the best at judging people, etc. But yes, while also being smart when it counts. I like that.


As for the ending... yeah, just WOW. Seph LOVED the Asha'man bit the most. He said that made the book, for him. Jordan had built up the threat of male channelers, then BAM! Role reversed. Deadly weapons in the fight for good. Jordan's brilliant at building up things (the powerful Aes Sedai) then knocking them down books later (Aes Sedai kneeling). It evokes such feeling!

 

[HoopyFrood]

Asmodean is (was) indeed a massive wimp That's another thing I love, that all the Forsaken are so different, and don't even trust each other, never mind anyone else.

Something I meant to say about Taim -- I'd like it to be a double bluff. That we'd think it's likely he'd be another Forsaken in disguise, but no, he's just a really arsey guy. Maybe even planning to take over as Dragon Reborn if he can get Rand out of the way?

 

[Erin99]

Oooooh! Now that's a VERY interesting theory. I have to say, I was a Taimandred-believer like soooo many others. Yet I also had a feeling Jordan made Taim's appearance *too* Demandred-like, as if he was intentionally throwing us off... Argh! It drove me NUTS, the indecision!

You'll have to RAFO.

And yes, I love that all the Forsaken are so distrustful. Even when they *try* to form alliances with one another, they just can't put their competing aside. I suppose it doesn't help that they each want to become the Dark Lord's favourite, Nae'blis... (which I read as "No-bliss", of course )

 

[HoopyFrood]

So a couple of things.

Firstly, the glossary is getting increasingly weird, sometimes I genuinely need it and the thing I need isn't even there.

Which brings me to my first question. In the little sections in the epilogue, there's a dude -- oh, wait, I've just remembered who it is! Fel, I knew I recognised the name, but I couldn't recall at the time. He's the historian. Ooh, didn't he have something important to say but Rand couldn't find him? And now he's been Gholamed...that squeezes under the door, CREEPY.

So yeah, instead of telling me about people I need to know about, instead it tells me about Aes Sedai that I don't think was even mentioned at any point? I mean, it's cool information, though. Both Green Ajah and both badasses, by the sounds of it. Including one called the Battle Amrylin who died during one battle with a wall of dead trollocs and nine dead dreadlords around her. Awesome.

 

[Erin99]

Hmmm. I must admit, I haven't looked much at the glossaries (Seph's great to ask). I DID look up who killed Asmo, though. I wonder if that extra info is basically passing mentions in the book, that are so brief you don't even realise? There would have been a lot of Salidar and Amerlyn stuff going on in this book, so maybe there was a mention of an ex-Amerlyn that then is described in detail in the back? I'm not sure!

And yes! I LOVED that moment when Fel was.... well, felled. It made me eager to know what info he needed to give Rand. He had a eureka moment just before he was killed... Obviously something the shadow wouldn't want Rand to know... DUN DUN DUUUUN!