Matter: What did you think?

I am a longtime Banks scifi reader, read them all, and I have to say I really enjoyed The Algebraist. I think I liked it better second time around, but thats one of the reasons I like Banks - he makes good rereaders. Personally I've become a little leery of making up my mind on the like/dislike thing with Iain on the first read, because there's usually something in his books that disturbs me or doesn't sit right, that stays hanging around in my brain for a while like the aftermath of a bad dream. Case in point, the end of Matter. I think I have found with every one of his books that the first read is a mixed bag for me - some parts fit really well and are effortless to love - for instance his drones, I always love his drones - and other parts chafe, or rub, or irritate in some way. So far, on rereading (in a while) I find that somehow a reconciliation is going on - I'm picking up on something that I missed in the thrill of the first read - or i've had time to come to terms with something - or I've had time to get used to something. Like the spelling in Feersum Endjinn, that really jarred me on the first read and I nearly didn't reread it because of it - luckily I did, and loved it.

Now, to the Matter at hand - there were some things that I didn't much like with this book, but somehow I still - enjoyed is too simple a word - interacted with it maybe - on a level of pleasure/pain that I always get with Banks and rarely with any other SF writer. Is it as good as his earlier stuff? For a truly honest, objective response, I am going to have to read it again (in a while).

But this is why I love Banks. He challenges me in some way, every time. He kills someone I didn't want him to (often happens). He doesn't always play fair. Something happens that outrages my sense of natural justice. There might be no drones in the story, and I love drones. The ending is rushed. I didn't want the book to end, but if if had to end, I didn't want it to end there. That shouldn't have happened right then. And so forth and so on.

And here I am loving his books and going back to them repeatedly over the years, seeing different parts of the pleasure/pain every time. I don't know any other SF writer that has this impact on me, I really don't.
 
I am just at the end (how sad!) of a Culture Reread Marathon, which I started after I had finished Matter.

I had another reread started some months ago with the Algebraist, but I never finished it. Not because I don't like it -- I think it makes (and deserves) a great reread; but I am so hooked on the Culture, its Minds and drones... I can't help but miss them in the Algebraist. Same with Inversions, even though it's Culture (remotely) and a very good book. But it wasn't part of my recent, er, excess (Player of Games, Use of Weapons, Look to Windward, Excession, Consider Phlebas and now, sniff, there is only State of the Art left.
And then Matter again. :D).

Now, Matter.
As in Algebraist there is a lot of describing of environment (please excuse my clumsy English), which I found a bit boring. I also agree with many others -- I wished for Minds and got High Fantasy.
But ... it was gripping. The clueless brothers were frustrating in a good way. Banks has a knack for writing (mostly male) protagonists one (or at least me) doesn't really want to identify with, even though they all have some likeable features, too.

Many have complained the end of Matter was rushed. I am not sure if I feel the same. It is very fast, specially compared to the erst of the book (which is too long with not enough happening, imo), I do wish we'd learned more about the ship that joined in. But reading it made me feel the urge. It was a real rush (of adrenaline).

And there were parts in Matter which really got me. The end; and Oramen's last encounter with - huh, can't describe it without spoilers.


Anyway
There is one thing... compared to eg. Excession (which is the first Banks I ever read and which has been my favourite ever since) Matter and the Algebraist are - not as intense nor dense.
 
Finished matter yesterday, I really liked it, didn't love it. I did love the Morthanveld (?) world, not sure of the name. the big ringworld of water filled tubes that were entwined round one another in a kind of rope. I thought that was cool.

Not as good (IMHO) as his early culture novels, but still good, I think we missed a central AI/drone character and were left with several historic humans (from our current level of tech) and only Anaplin as a SC culture agent.

Still good though, roll on the next Banks (Iain M)
 
Lord Soth said:
Far too much pseudo fantasy in a sci-fi novel, took far too long to get moving and it really didn't seem to become a Culture novel until the last quarter.
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I've only just started reading it, so I can't make much of a comment, but "took far too long to get moving and it really didn't seem to become a Culture novel until the last quarter"??

I must take issue with that. It is certainly a Culture novel, of that there can be no doubt, and the premise of what a Special Circumstances agent might do when faced with problems on their own homeworld is an interesting one, IMHO. Obviously, I can't yet comment on how it plays out in the end, but so far it is typically Banksian: Multiple storylines, all converging together.

If by "pseudo fantasy" you mean knights riding flying beasts, and a Shellworld with pillars holding up different levels, and a feudal male-orientated society, then I have some sympathy with your viewpoint, but I would ask why are these things not possible in the multiverse in which the Culture exists? I wouldn't say that they don't ever have a place in a sci-fi novel.

No Minds yet, but there has already been interaction with an A.I., but maybe there is not enough of this in the book as a whole for some people. As I said, I need to read the whole novel to make a fair comment.
 
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I wasn't impressed with Matter and thought the same as the OP. I did enjoy the Algebraist, however. A great romp and a clever response to 9/11. Neither are in the league of the earlier Culture novels, but, then again, what is?
 
@ gully foyle

yeah i have been trying to figure that one out. i thought it was away but i think i had made my mind up that in fact he(asumming its a he) is walknig towards us. The position of the feet is all crucial!
 
just finished it and thouroughly enjoyed it. Some of the battle scenes can be confusing, but putting it into context, they are of cpourse gonig to be hard to understand. I particularly liked how Banks describes the various species involved, HLI or LLI alike. Futhermore the ending did not seem rushed IMO and the epilogue fitted the bill prefectly so to speak!
 
Moonbat said:
Finished matteryesterday, I really liked it, didn't love it. I did love the Morthanveld (?) world, not sure of the name. the big ringworld of water filled tubes that were entwined round one another in a kind of rope. I thought that was cool.

Not as good (IMHO) as his early culture novels, but still good, I think we missed a central AI/drone character and were left with several historic humans (from our current level of tech) and only Anaplin as a SC culture agent.

Still good though, roll on the next Banks (Iain M)
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Yeah the Nestworld was the Morthanveld name. That too blew me away and was my favourite part of the novel. When Banks is on song and he writes that Hard SF with mind boggling numbers( 300 million km in diameter and over 40 trillion souls) it lingers on in the memory. Something that very few other writers can achieve.
 
Thought both Matter and The Algebraist needed severe editing, but still shone more than most other writer's output. I'd especially like to see more stuff set in the Mercatoria- the Archaemandrate's exit seems set up for a sequel (Iain Banks doing a trilogy? Whatever next?).

I heard an audio interview with Mr Banks in the Guardian online recently. Interestingly, he says the next culture novel will be slim, with the emphasis on elegance rather than epic power as with his last couple of books. I find that very promising-- something more like Player of Games, perhaps?
 
gully_foyle said:
Not Iain's best by a long shot. Yes the characters were too talky. Yes the conclusion was rushed to. Yes the combat was over too quickly, or rather too much was going on in too short a description. I also felt there were a few borrowed elements in here. Djan Anaplian is too similar to other previous SC agents and had no personality. The Iln seemed to be like an Outside Complex Problem. It was still a good read, but the WOW factor wasn't there.
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This, essentially.

Also, it took forever to warm up.

But the scene where they entered the ninth level, falling through vacuum and then gliding through the atmosphere, that was great.
 
Wow, 2 and a half years on and my thread is still going! I really must re-read this, afterall I have been enjoying Hamilton's recent series and there is quite a lot of 'fantasy' in that :)

Looking back, I seem to recall having just finished (in 1 run) the earlier Culture novels, and I probably think I felt slightly betrayed with Matter - for all the points in my first point.

Anyway, its great to see people both agreeing with me and not, and anyway, I still have Surface Detail on pre-order :)
 
I picked up a secondhand copy of Matter as I thought it would be good due to the recommendations that IMB is a good storyteller and writer but so far the consensus seems to be that Matter is pretty crap. Is it really as bad as everyone says? I have not read a Culture or IMB book before.
 
I must admit, i bought this and tyhe Algebraist because it was IMB but i haven't got much interest in reading them. :(
 
biodroid said:
I picked up a secondhand copy of Matter as I thought it would be good due to the recommendations that IMB is a good storyteller and writer but so far the consensus seems to be that Matter is pretty crap. Is it really as bad as everyone says? I have not read a Culture or IMB book before.
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No, it's not crap. It's a slight return to form for Banks, but not as good as some of the earlier Culture novels, such as Player of Games or Use of Weapons. Banks is never crap.
 
WARNING SPOILERS! Just reread it for the second time. Not bad, not as good as earlier stuff as seems to be the concensus. Agree that the ending was rushed and there was never the rightful revenge on the usurper. The final ship combat at the world's core could have been awesome but over far too quickly. And a few ideas that were just too silly for me - the dude who turned himself into a sentient bush, and the shellworlds designed to throw a force field around the whole galaxy??? Come off it Iain! Also didn't like the way he just dropped in an entire equiv-tech civilisation, the Morthanveld, with even more citizens than the Culture. I'd probably say it's better than Algebraist, but then I've only read that once so far.
 
I loved it. The only other of his novels I have read is Feersum Enjinn which I found quite confusing (quite apart from the spelling) - but I'm now heading Culture-wards
 
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