The Golden Compass Controversy

Well, I don't think it's mentioned specifically in the movie any more, but it's easy to link some stuff together. Though I don't think children, even the most zealous, would watch the movie in that way.
 
Yeah most of the upfront references were taken out of the movie, but in the book it is obvious that the "bad guys" are depicted as the roman catholics (pope) would be. The author is a big time athiest.
 
Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

I hate religion. Religious people no matter their extremity appear to be lackinh intellectually speaking. Before I get spanked I would like to draw a line between religion and belief. It is great to have belief but to embrace religion is to embrace pure ignorance. However, in defence of religion , the world that I live in seems to suffer with the absense of religion. Nothing has replaced religion in the society that I live in. The major faiths have been around long enough now to surely have had a resounding effect on the human conscience, so there are really no excuses.

I do not understand how the film can rmeove the religious aspects of the story. Can somebody explain how this is done without a complete loss of theme?

Note: By the way aeithism requires no defence, it can not be held accountable for any great evil and is clearly the choice of the intellect. Catholicism, Islam and Hindi have all been used to inflict great harm on humanity.
 
Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

II do not understand how the film can rmeove the religious aspects of the story. Can somebody explain how this is done without a complete loss of theme? .

they change it from a war agaisnt God and religion to one against a controlling power (who happen to be called the theocracy) so its a typical freedom fighting war (ironicly though they cut out the religion its still a similar concept as breaking the control of religion is at the heart of the books - not destroying beleif).

Its worked for the first film, but I wonder if they can keep it up for the others without the story falling over its cutting
 
Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

The films will suffer greatly especially in the third film. I think I will give them a miss and am grateful for reading the books. The christian nut jobs have already won it would seem. Just one more reason to despise religion and christianity.
 
Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

Ain't religious myself but don't forget that religion is not the only cause of atrocities. Look at Soviet Russia and the millions who were killed or disappeared - Stalin was not a godbotherer, quite the contrary. People who want to do that stuff anyway just use religion as an excuse. If religion didn't exist they would use a different excuse. Reality is a little more grey than the black and white "religion is history's greatest monster". Maybe a bit cynical but I think it would be fairer to say "humanity is history's greatest monster". Severely doubt we are going to wake up to ourselves if religion vanishes.
 
Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

Maybe a bit cynical but I think it would be fairer to say "humanity is history's greatest monster". Severely doubt we are going to wake up to ourselves if religion vanishes.

Humanity is based on the morals that religion creates which was created by humans. It's a vicious cycle.

Religion won't vanish, but if it did, extremists of all religions would be screwed.
 
Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

Humanity is based on the morals that religion creates which was created by humans. It's a vicious cycle.

Religion won't vanish, but if it did, extremists of all religions would be screwed.

Trust me humans would find other reasons to kill other humans if there was no religions.


Religion itself is nothing if humans dont believe in the good side of it,belief,love etc or the bad side, hate,extremist etc.

I have been a religious muslim all my life and my religion has never told me to kill or hate or anything.

If religion itself was the danger,harm and not the human part then there would be 5 billion hateful,extremist people in the world. Seeing as how many people there are who believe in the many religions.
 
Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

I think the danger comes from a righteous zealous belief. It seems to me that absolutism deriving from a certain interpretation of a doctrine is the root cause. That doctrine can be political or religious.

The key is the interpretation and the transmission of that to followers who then act in the absolute knowledge that they are right, hence anything is justified if it furthers the interest of their politics/rulers or god.
 
Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

If religion itself was the danger,harm and not the human part then there would be 5 billion hateful,extremist people in the world. Seeing as how many people there are who believe in the many religions.


It is the danger because people are killing in the name of x religion it matters little that they misinterpret it or not. It's still being done.
 
Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

Humanity is based on the morals that religion creates which was created by humans. It's a vicious cycle.

Religion won't vanish, but if it did, extremists of all religions would be screwed.

Heh - don't underestimate the sticking power of extremists. If religion were to vanish they would just find something else to use as a focus for their hate, fear and small-mindedness. Those parts of the human psyche were around long before religion, I'll bet.

I will be interested to see how the filmmakers deal with the next two books in Pullman's series. The third in particular is much more anti-religious in tone, or can be more easily taken as such and will be more difficult to "tone down". ;)
 
Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

Exactly, Ian. People are always going to find reasons to kill one another.

On the scale that religion has caused?

Hell, yeah. Note that the Holocaust was not "caused by religion" but a state trying to stamp out a religion. And more Jews were killed by Stalin...along with like, everybody else.

Even the Crusades and the massacres in N. American conquest are perhaps more astutely seen as state-sponsored with the cross as a handy logo and excuse. Phillip of France certainly wasn't down there for reasons of piety, nor for certain sure was Richard Lionheart.

Communism has FAR more notches on it's belt than the Nazi's, in general. Again, a religion only by a stretch. Kings kill more people than popes do. No qu question about it.

And by the way, Hitler did, in fact, gather up "people". History has a heavily edited slant on that but in fact the Reich also genocided gypsies, Armenians, LOTS of people. Non-aryans. If they'd been successful it might have continued into a wipeout of all non-blondes but pogroms based on genetics are hardly "religion".
 
Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

This is an age old debate, first started when Socrates declared there were no gods, he had to drink hemlock for his troubles.
Thankfully today we have freedom to express our beliefs.
As people become more and more intelligent/enlightened, religion will fade into the background.
Religion will always be with us in some form, because in this case, the proof of the pudding is not the eating of it.

I will admit, the promise of a glorious eternal after life, sure knocks the crap out of oblivion.
So why do some people choose to accept that death is the end and ignore the promise of an after life.
One answer is the obvious inconsistencies in all holy texts that highlight there crude nature (no mater how philosophical) These are over looked or reinterpreted to fit modern times, not by gods prophets, but by ordinary people like you and I.
There are many others, but i digress, Look at the uproar Life of brain created, these groups that rally against such films only end up promoting them.
 
Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

Hell, yeah. Note that the Holocaust was not "caused by religion" but a state trying to stamp out a religion. And more Jews were killed by Stalin...along with like, everybody else.

Even the Crusades and the massacres in N. American conquest are perhaps more astutely seen as state-sponsored with the cross as a handy logo and excuse. Phillip of France certainly wasn't down there for reasons of piety, nor for certain sure was Richard Lionheart.

Communism has FAR more notches on it's belt than the Nazi's, in general. Again, a religion only by a stretch. Kings kill more people than popes do. No qu question about it.

And by the way, Hitler did, in fact, gather up "people". History has a heavily edited slant on that but in fact the Reich also genocided gypsies, Armenians, LOTS of people. Non-aryans. If they'd been successful it might have continued into a wipeout of all non-blondes but pogroms based on genetics are hardly "religion".

Its interesting people easily forget the things you mentioned and blame everything horrible on religion.

The parts of history you mentioned was political and power,greed motivated.


I even saw a National Geography docu recently about the Philip you mentioned who destroyed The Templar order cause of his dept. The pope was in his pocket. Shows religion power is nothing compared the power of a king (the same with dictator later on).
 
Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

I wouldn't say religious power is nothing compared to the power of a king, but I would say religious power can be used as another form of political power, and often is. One advantage religion has over politics is its direct access to an emotional hold over its professers, which gives it more buttons to push where it comes to social control. The medieval Roman Catholic church had great political power because of its strong following among the common people - it was able to inspire fear and loyalty in a way few kings could because of what it represented.

Many of the "evils of religion" - though not all - are in reality politically motivated.

My guess would be that people who blame everything horrible on religion only have a superficial understanding of history. The core of many religions is a striving for betterment, and most people who would call themselves religious just want to be good people. But as with every organisation that has ever existed since we came down out of the trees (or whatever we did), the cake of religion is flavoured with a liberal sprinkling of idiots. So is the cake of Atheism. ;)
 
Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

It is the danger because people are killing in the name of x religion it matters little that they misinterpret it or not. It's still being done.
Do you actually think they wouldnt find another excuse if religion wasnt available?
 
Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

I wouldn't say religious power is nothing compared to the power of a king, but I would say religious power can be used as another form of political power, and often is. One advantage religion has over politics is its direct access to an emotional hold over its professers, which gives it more buttons to push where it comes to social control. The medieval Roman Catholic church had great political power because of its strong following among the common people - it was able to inspire fear and loyalty in a way few kings could because of what it represented.

Many of the "evils of religion" - though not all - are in reality politically motivated.

My guess would be that people who blame everything horrible on religion only have a superficial understanding of history. The core of many religions is a striving for betterment, and most people who would call themselves religious just want to be good people. But as with every organisation that has ever existed since we came down out of the trees (or whatever we did), the cake of religion is flavoured with a liberal sprinkling of idiots. So is the cake of Atheism. ;)


Well said !

I find it sad that people think so low about religion. Everything good i have learned is from religion.

Have you ever felt guilty for stepping on a bug ? I have.
Cause in koraan school as a kid they taught that you dont even hurt a fly. Sure they scared with eternal pain too but it was effective hehe ;)
 
Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

But apparently blaming the evils of the world on atheists is acceptable

ABC News: Pope Says Atheism Led to 'Greatest Cruelty'
Saudi king calls for interfaith talks -Times Online

If you could perhaps get your religious leaders to stop doing this, it would be much appreciated. I have been told by various people that I'm a kind and considerate person and certainly all the atheists that i know in RL are really nice people it's a bit baffling to be wrongfully accused.
 
Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

We'll stop when you stop.

(That didn't get us anywhere, did it?;))

I certainly wouldn't say that all atheists are nice people, and I've known a fair number. But neither are all religious people. I've known some atheists that were stellar people too.

Religion can be used to close people's minds. But so can atheism- the Soviets used a philosophy to try and stamp out a religion and close down all competition for their own system, through a combination of indoctrination, argument, and intimidation.
 

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