The Golden Compass Controversy

[TheEndIsNigh]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

Delusionally self-impressed.

And rife with what you hear so much of from atheists...extremely primitive understanding of the area they are discussing. (How could God "allow" bad things"? for instance, is kind of kindergarden logic.)

Of course, logic doesn't matter when you KNOW, does it?

Right back at ya. Those wriggly worms are tempting aren't they?

That's exactly how I feel about those that believe. I couldn't give a toss about what god allows, since of course, that's not what happens. However it's interesting that your put down relies on similar arguments to those of us that are 'enlightened'.

Let me ask you this.

Are you a new or old testament believer?

What is the first personal insight to the existance of a god?

Was it a Damascus moment?

How old were you?

Have you ever considered the thought you are wrong?

 

[lin robinson]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

Are you a new or old testament believer?

Nope.

What is the first personal insight to the existance of a god?

Another loopy sentence that doesn't make any sense.

Was it a Damascus moment?

How old were you?

Almost sixty. So?

Have you ever considered the thought you are wrong?

Constantly. And frequently admit it. But I'm not really putting forward any belief systems or anything here. Just discussing the weakness of the "there is no god and I know it" delusion. There's not really much to be wrong about, actually. I just kind of assume you haven't really investigated the entrire cosmos and come to conclusions.

Nor is there much to argue about your infantile theology. Read up a little, you might get a clue that when people talk about higher determinants in the universe they don't necessarily mean your crippled concepts of what that means. Seriously. You might get interested.

I'm not the missionary here. You are.

 

[Reading_fanatic]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

And rife with what you hear so much of from atheists...extremely primitive understanding of the area they are discussing. (How could God "allow" bad things"? for instance, is kind of kindergarden logic.)

Kindergarten logic. may I suggest J.L.Mackies logical refutation of God through the existence of evil as it tries to disprove the existance of God as being incompatible with the "Bad things".

Nor is there much to argue about your infantile theology. Read up a little, you might get a clue that when people talk about higher determinants in the universe they don't necessarily mean your crippled concepts of what that means. Seriously. You might get interested.

Might I inquire what you mean by a higher determinant. (Specifics so we are clear on what we are arguing about)

 

[BookStop]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

Why argue at all? Folks that believe are not likely to be swayed into not believing in a forum. And folks that don't believe should know better than to try an argumentative approach.

 

[mosaix]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

Of course, logic doesn't matter when you KNOW, does it?

That's why believers ignore it.

PS why is everyone discussing the exitance or not of god as opposed to gods?

 

[Ursa major]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

With polytheism, wouldn't we be parroting the same arguments anyway, mosaix?

 

[mosaix]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

The ex-methodist guy has redefined the word to suit himself. That's fine. But I'm talking about the more commonly understood definition, not his personal one.

As far as the "understanding of religous people" (I don't particularly understand them at all, myself) it seems to be an understanding based in his own prejudices.

I wasn't aware I'd expressed any prejudices.

But it's an interesting standpoint you have, Lin - "You're all talking about something different to me so your arguements aren't valid - therefore I am right."

Bookstop is right about this thread but not for the reason he thinks.
You have your own view about what constitutes a god that seems to differ from that of others and so we are discussing different things - pointless.

 

[mosaix]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

With polytheism, wouldn't we be parroting the same arguments anyway, mosaix?

My point UM was that people who talk of god rather than god are , maybe, approaching the subject from a judeo-christian standpoint and not considering the broader aspect.

If there is one god, then why not two or three or millions?

If people believe in one god why can't they believe in two or more? It all comes down to what we have been taught. Once people realise that then maybe they will start to question what they believe and why.

 

[Ursa major]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

My point UM was that people who talk of god rather than god are , maybe, approaching the subject from a judeo-christian standpoint and not considering the broader aspect.

And I was making a pun (which is a higher calling than theology, I'll let you know).

If there is one god, then why not two or three or millions?

I can see what you're getting at, but I don't think it will change the argument one way or another. People believe what they believe (including those who do not believe in anything that would resemble a god or gods). Many (most?) were taught their belief(s) as children; others came to their belief(s) later on in life. I would guess that this is true of topics outside of the religion/non-religion arena, support for a soccer team, for example. Often it revolves around wanting to belong (or not belong).

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

Nope.

Another loopy sentence that doesn't make any sense.

Was it a Damascus moment?

Almost sixty. So?

Constantly. And frequently admit it. But I'm not really putting forward any belief systems or anything here. Just discussing the weakness of the "there is no god and I know it" delusion. There's not really much to be wrong about, actually. I just kind of assume you haven't really investigated the entrire cosmos and come to conclusions.

Nor is there much to argue about your infantile theology. Read up a little, you might get a clue that when people talk about higher determinants in the universe they don't necessarily mean your crippled concepts of what that means. Seriously. You might get interested.

I'm not the missionary here. You are.

Well I'm sorry (and surprised) you were unable to discern the meaning and sentiment of my question given your self confessed superior mature intellect. The question does have a slight error (hint: swap was for is).

I was trying to find out if your belief was a result of your own personal insight or as a result of indoctrination at an early age. No matter.

As to my exhaustive search of the cosmos why would I. I only have to find one place where something omnipresent dosen't exist, to establish it's non existance. I am that place.

Obviously you are entitled to agree with my position, I hope you do. In case you don't, I'm not sure suggesting someone is infantile, delusional, childish or inferior represents a valid refutation. Therefore, if you do disagree, I think it only fair that you should propose a reasoned alternative.

 

[Foxbat]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

People. This is a friendly reminder to keep this debate civilised. So far it has not crossed the line but this subject matter has a tendency to raise emotions.

Please continue to treat each other with respect and everything will be fine. If it descends into any form of name calling, this thread will be closed.

 

[mosaix]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

My favorite analogy is this. Three guys go into a room and come out. One guy says,
"There's a cat in that room. I saw it."

Second guy says, "I didn't see a cat."

Third guy says, "There is NO cat in that room."

Now...who is most likely wrong. What's funny is, that whenever the experience of God is brought up, atheists immediately start talking about coercion, hallucination, lying, etc.

But there on position...based on denying something because they didn't experience it, is always touted as being scientific and unassailable.

The analogy is not relevant to belief systems.

This is more relevant.

Supposing I believe that somewhere in the universe on a planet that is barren, hot, has never harboured life, never been visited by a life-form of any kind, there is sitting in the middle of a desert a Ford Mustang. This car is perfect in very respect, the battery is charged, the front tyres have 28lbs psi, the rear tyres 32lbs psi, the washer bottle is full of water, the tank full of petrol, oil in the sump, the right keys are in the ignition, there are a pair of leather driving gloves on the drivers seat, it carries the Ford badge and has a licence plate that reads CHRONS 1.

This car came into existence by all the necessary molecules rushing together and combining in the right sequence and proportions etc.

Now this may sound unlikely but it’s even more unlikely when you consider that the car may have had a tank full of water instead of petrol, or a flat tyre, or the wrong set of keys, or no plug leads, or carries a General Motors badge, or it is a four-stroke engine but only has three cylinders, or one of the gloves has six fingers, or the licence plate reads KRONS 2.

Anyway, I would like to propose this as a belief system.

Okay Chronites, does anyone believe the car exists? Is anyone ‘agnostic’ about the car? Does anyone disbelieve?

My point here is that the possibility that the car exists cannot be disproved, but the chances that it does are so vanishingly small that disbelief is a much more rational and logical view than the agnostic standpoint. For it to exist then all the other variants of the car that I mentioned would have an equal possibility of existing, not to mention Ford Thunderbirds, Porches, Rolls Royce's and any other make of car that I choose to mention. And when I'm through with cars there's always trains, bikes and ships......

The agnostic standpoint is a cop-out.

As for belief - anyone believing what I have proposed please deposit donations in my bank account so that I can start The Chronite Brethren (and Sisterhood) of the Order Of The Mustangites.

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

Mosaix - To be competely analogous to the cat it would have to be a Jaguar - sign me up.

 

[mosaix]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

Mosaix - To be competely analogous to the cat it would have to be a Jaguar - sign me up.

I'll send you my bank account details.

 

[Ursa major]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

It sounds too good to be true.


(Admit it, Mosaix: it's been clocked, hasn't it?)

 

[mosaix]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

It sounds too good to be true.


(Admit it, Mosaix: it's been clocked, hasn't it?)

For a friend I can do a good deal....

 

[Ursa major]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

And thus there grew a schism between those who thought the Ford Mustang was immaculate and those who believed it had been driven by its creator. And because both sides agree that to visit the Holy Planet would be a sin - not that anyone knows where this planet is, mind - the disagreement cannot be settled by examination of the holy relic.


Casualties are expected in the very near future.

 

[mosaix]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

And thus there grew a schism between those who thought the Ford Mustang was immaculate and those who believed it had been driven by its creator. And because both sides agree that to visit the Holy Planet would be a sin - not that anyone knows where this planet is, mind - the disagreement cannot be settled by examination of the holy relic.


Casualties are expected in the very near future.

Very good UM.

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

And thus there grew a schism between those who thought the Ford Mustang was immaculate and those who believed it had been driven by its creator. And because both sides agree that to visit the Holy Planet would be a sin - not that anyone knows where this planet is, mind - the disagreement cannot be settled by examination of the holy relic.


Casualties are expected in the very near future.

The one true car is Jaguar. To believe in Mustang is herasy.

(I know, I know, this isn't the argument thread, but it was too hard to resist)

 

[JoanDrake]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

Okay, Ursa, I'll gear it down for you. The second guy said he say a monster in the room. You okay now?

If you don't know and say so, then you are an agnostic. Examine the words.

This whole thing is a recent concoction raised by atheists...and if you haven't seen discussions of this before on other forums and seen all the "scientific proofs" and scornful denials of the possibility of existence of God (often by the same people who will give you statistical probabilities of life on other planets), then you aren't really aware of the parameters...in order to have a sort of "shelter" from the logical problems of their indefensible position.

Saying there is no God is making a statement that is unprovable, has no evidence behind it, and is logically unsound.

I'll agree it's unprovable.

How does it have no evidence behind it? There is absolutely no evidence for the existence of god which is not more easily explainable in some other way. While 'the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence' it's a pretty good indicator.

How is it logically unsound? I don't understand that at all.