Greatest Warrior and Greatest Military Genius before 1900

[wook-bot5000]

Has anyone given any thought to Baibars the commander of the Mamluks? He destroyed the Crusader states in the Middle East, and even defeated the Mongols in battle at one point.

 

[kevin18294]

WTF!!!! U GUYS KNOW NOTHING ABOUT WAR ALEXANDER IV BY FAR HE WAS UNDEFEATED IN 71,000 BATTLES AND RICHARD THE LION HEART HAD 7,000 MEN AGAINST 11,000 MEN AND SALADIN ONLY LOST BECAUSE HIS MEN DESERTED HIM BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT HE WAS A CRAP LEADER SO THERE AND THATS ALL TRUE AND PROOF SO DONT ARGUE YA STROKERS AND WHAT ABOUT HITLER HE TOOK OVER EUROPE IN A MATTER OF MONTHS

 

[kevin18294]

Jesu Christ Does Anyone Know History Kublai Khan Took China And His Empire Wasnt Largest Ever I Hate Toadmitit Bieng Scottish Bu The Largest Ever Was The British Empire

 

[sarakoth]

WTF!!!! U GUYS KNOW NOTHING ABOUT WAR ALEXANDER IV BY FAR HE WAS UNDEFEATED IN 71,000 BATTLES AND RICHARD THE LION HEART HAD 7,000 MEN AGAINST 11,000 MEN AND SALADIN ONLY LOST BECAUSE HIS MEN DESERTED HIM BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT HE WAS A CRAP LEADER SO THERE AND THATS ALL TRUE AND PROOF SO DONT ARGUE YA STROKERS AND WHAT ABOUT HITLER HE TOOK OVER EUROPE IN A MATTER OF MONTHS

Alexander IV was not undefeated in 71,000 battles. Richard the Lionheart stands in the shadow of many military geniuses. Adolph Hitler came to power after 1900. And don't be rude.

Jesu Christ Does Anyone Know History Kublai Khan Took China And His Empire Wasnt Largest Ever I Hate Toadmitit Bieng Scottish Bu The Largest Ever Was The British Empire

The fact that the largest empire ever was the British Empire contributes little to this discussion.

 

[Moogle]

The Greatest Military Genius pre-1900 AD (and even today) was quite clearly Sun Tzu. The man literally wrote the book on war.

As for the greatest general, I'm not sure, but I would throw marks behind Napoleon, Phillip the Second (Alexander the Great's father), Nobunaga and Tokugawa for the Japanese, Belisaurias was a good general, as was Joan d'Arc.

 

[scalem X]

I'm going to vote for shaka-zulu as greatest warrior. His name sounds so cool.
Military genius is hard to choose. I like Japan and Nobunaga did a good job, but on the other hand I like Kublai khan.

 

[sarakoth]

The Greatest Military Genius pre-1900 AD (and even today) was quite clearly Sun Tzu. The man literally wrote the book on war.

As for the greatest general, I'm not sure, but I would throw marks behind Napoleon, Phillip the Second (Alexander the Great's father), Nobunaga and Tokugawa for the Japanese, Belisaurias was a good general, as was Joan d'Arc.

I have to agree with you on Sun Tzu, but Joan d'Arc really wasn't that much of a great general. Sure she provided "inspiration" but I personally think it was just luck. Again, personal opinion.

 

[balsaboy]

sarakoth, most of the deeds you cite for zhu ge liang are literary exaggerations from a novel loosely based on history, written a thousand years after the fact.

why don't you include his magical changing of the winds and weather into it while you're at it.

 

[ushumgal]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Horatio Nelson yet...

It's hard to say who's the "greatest", because that depends on your criteria - in terms of area conquered, I guess it would have to be Ghengis Khan, wouldn't it?

I would like to suggest the early 1st Millennium BC Assyrian king Assurbanipal - not only did he defeat and occupy Egypt, he definitively crushed Elam, the long-time adversary of Mesoptamia. Not much is known of his tactics, though, as the texts are usually pretty quiet on that issue, and there is only so much info one can derive from reliefs and other depictions.

Granted, All of the territory that he took, and more, was later taken by the Achaemenid and later Sassanian Persians (nobody has mentioned Shapur II either), but I still have a fondness for Assurbanipal - maybe because he was originally trained as a scibe, not having been expected to end up as the crown prince. And as a scribe with an interest in antiquities, be built up an very interesting library which has been excavated at Nineveh it includes copies of many much earlier inscriptions that his scribes made, which is handy for us, as the originals are now long gone. Thanks, Assurbanipal

As far as writing the book on war..Sun Tzu certainly did so for the ancient world, but let's not forget Clausewitz either - he's still well before 1900.

 

[woodsman]

Just popped by again, dunno if they've been mentioned but honourables for:
Marlborough: Surely Englands best general?
Gustavus Adolphus: Europes best?

Have to confess I know very little of eastern history so can't really comment on a number of those mentioned.

 

[Boneman]

Not sure if anyone has done this before, didn't see it in the posts. But...... and apologies to any French out there, but if you google 'French Military Victories' and press the 'I'm feeling lucky' button, then follow the highlighted link, you should enjoy it...maybe....

 

[Drachir]

There have been similar threads before. I am not going to nominate anyone; I simply think there are too many excellent candidates. However, in order to be considered a great warrior or military leader one must consider a number of factors.

1. What was the quality of the opposition? Even a mediocre general can beat the truly inept.
2. How innovative and creative was the general in question?
3. What were the odds - how large was the opposition?
4. How good was the general at responding to unforeseen events or adversity?

If you can find someone who fits these criteria perhaps or she he is a worthy candidate.

 

[reiver33]

Flavius Belisarius (505? - 565) was one of the greatest generals of the Byzantine Empire and one of the most acclaimed generals in history. He was instrumental to Emperor Justinian I's ambitious project of reconquering much of the Western Roman Empire, which had been lost just under a century previously.

Although comparatively less well-known than other famed military leaders such as Hannibal, Julius Caesar or Alexander the Great, his skills and accomplishments were matched by very few other military commanders in history.

One of the defining features of Belisarius' career was his operating under conditions of little or no support from his emperor Justinian and Byzantium, and nonetheless succeeding through military genius. He is among a select group of men considered to be the "Last of the Romans".

 

[thaddeus6th]

Sounds like an interesting chap. Might have to see if I can find a book or two about old Flavius.

 

[reiver33]

Belisarius - utterly loyal to an emperor who distrusted loyalty and preferred corrupt (and thus manageable) subordinates.

Belisarius - retakes North Africa from the Vandals and is made viceroy, but recalled due to intrigue against him at court. Sent off to retake Italy from the Visigoths with 4 men and a dog (well, kind of), takes Naples, takes Rome and is beseiged there. Appeals to the Emperor for aid - Emperor sends 2 boys with pointy sticks and a parrot (you get the general idea). Breaks the seige, subdues the Visigoths who offer him the crown of Italy as a worthy foe - but he declines. Recalled to Byzantium as he is obviously plotting against the emperor (if he declined the throne of Italy it can only be because he wants the whole empire!).

And so it goes on - triumph, disgrace and recall....

 

[apakalypsemachine]

the greatest warrior in anchient history i would say would actually be unknown...before 1900's i would definately say thomas jefferson (stonewall) jacksons wilderness campaign is one of the greatest military victories of all time..especially since firearms were available at this time in the american civil war...i think it is no coincidence that before his death the south won every major battle that he was involved in..after his death they lost every major battle ...you guys/gals should check him out...king david i would say as well....hmm most of the others have been named...henry the 5ths victory at agincourt in 1415? was truly impressive.....i forget the guys name who faught ceaser when he invaded gaul? the guy who tried to unify the tribes...i would say julius ceaser was indeed a great commander loved by the lower and middle class romans...think about it the senate assinated him...brutus cried out we are free ....and was met with silence noone rejoiced...noone...tells you something...still henry the v at agincourt man...battle kings are great...thats who r mostly being mentioned in this thread...alexander was not at thermopolae that was leonidas...at the three hundred were not an actual number....everyone thinks hes a myth but arthuris rex was a bad mofo too...brian boru....or ireland....i mean cmon lets look at world before 1900 not specific geographies ...i mean crazy horse was a great warlord (general)geronimo?cochise?lets think deep about this...but henry the fifth to me the great battle king himself at agincourt...with archers i remind you defeats french cav...inf..and bowman...that was a great victory...and stonewall jackson standing as the bullets are flying by rallying a entire division...at the battle of bull run "there look to jackson..he stands as a stonewall..charge"his valley campaign and strategy at chancelorsville are taught world wide to this day as classic cavalry manuevers and textbook in war colleges across the world ladies and gentlemen...he was also a champion of african american literacy and the oldest african american church in america is where he taught literacy classes...also faught with distinction in other waars as well..salah ah hadin was a bad dude as well.....william wallace....lots of great fighters throughout history...as a treatise on warfare i would say sun tzu's art of war is exemplorary...but thoose are just my opinions...

 

[Johnsson]

Heh I know this thread is old, But i just read the thing. And i can't belive noone have mentioned Karl XII . He had 3 Great nations agens him ( Russia , Denmark and Poland) But he manage to fight them off.

He once defeted 50 000 russians with an army of only 10 000 Swedes.

Best Military Genius ever . ty

 

[nj1]

i forget the guys name who faught ceaser when he invaded gaul? the guy who tried to unify the tribes......

VERCINGETORIX

 

[nj1]

not sure if anyone has done this before, didn't see it in the posts. But...... And apologies to any french out there, but if you google 'french military victories' and press the 'i'm feeling lucky' button, then follow the highlighted link, you should enjoy it...maybe....

lol.... :d

 

[Alistair]

I am shocked by the ignorance of the posters tbh. How can half of you be seriously considering Genghis Khan when he was at best an overseer with his brilliant generals Jebe and Subodai doing all the strategy and tactics. Sun Tzu could well be a myth and we have no evidence of any successful wars he fought. Richard the Lionheart was a Christian warrior king with no deep understanding of tactics. Atilla the Hun best strategy was shoot arrows then charge and was beaten by Aetius-an unconsidered candidate. Alexander was undoubtedly a fantastic military genius but only really fought four decisive battles at the granicus, issus, gaugamela and the hydaspes. Moreover his forces were vastly superior to the persian army. The only real candidates can be Napoleon and Julius Caesar as it should be remembered that Caesar fought and generalled over 50 battles against both fierce Gallic and Germanic tribes while vastly outnumbered and won every time even theface of a unified Gaul in rebellion. In addition he defeated the republican forces of Pompey in Africa, Spain and greece once again outnumbered. In the next 1800 years nobody equalled battles fought and won until Napoleon. This man was truly the greates military genius the world has yet seen. He guided France to European supremacy against every nation it faced time and time again. In Russia his army of veterans was destroyed by attrition but still he managed to marshal another army and defeat and defy the prussians, Russians and austrians at lutzen, bautzen and Dresden before they decided on a tactic of only fighting his marshals and then when they vastly outnumbered him four to one at Leipzig they won. Nevertheless with a tiny army in the six days campaign he won five battles defending France before ey forced him to abdicate. Waterloo was almost won but Napoleon was suffering from gout and spasmodic fits and the corps he had detached to keep away the prussians he had defeated at ligny two days earlier failed under the poor leadership of his marshal.