Foundation

Look you guys, I read those books as a pretty young kid and it's just not fair for you all to remind me that I really should read them again from an adult perspective. I mean, who has time to even read the new stuff? Let alone re-reading classics to gain a deeper and broader understanding.
If I had that kind of time I'd probably just waste it on some chat board anyway. ;)
 
Honestly I doubt I'd make it through the original trilogy, they were written as articles in a sci-fi magazine in the late forties, early fifties, the chapters are piecemeal in Foundation, he started some cohesiveness in Foundation and Empire, but I always felt the story was a bit lacking in character, when it was a heavy hitter in science. I do remember a bit more of the last four novels written, but overall don't think I could bring myself to return to those particular trenches, slogging through Asimov's worlds takes some serious dedication, and I don't think I've got that, especially knowing how the story goes this time.
 
I've read (devoured) the Foundation series. It's an easy read. I love the logic dialogues!

I'm currently working my way through the 'prequels' written by other sci-fi writers.

I think Asimov has a sharp and interesting view of the human condition. He also was far ahead of his time and incredibly observant!

Top of my list.
 
Like a lot of the contributors to this thread, I read a lot of Asimov when I was about 11 and thought it was fantastic. As I became older, I found that he really had no real character development, which is fine when you're writing in the short story format, which is all about ideas, but less satisfactory in a novel ( yes, I know they were published in magazines ). My respect for Asimov reached it's low point at university when a friend used a passage from an Asimov book as an introduction to his doctoral thesis. It was meant as a tribute but, when he sent a copy to Asimov, he was actually threatened with legal action by the publisher! What a git! Needless to say, when I culled my book collection prior to emigrating to New Zealand, around 3 metres worth of Asimov ended up in the secondhand bookshops lining Steep Hill in Lincoln. One thing I did remember, though, was a superb radio adaptation of the Foundation Trilogy by the BBC in about 1973. Isn't the Internet wonderful! I located the selfsame radio adaptation copyright free on the Internet Archive or somesuch. Listened to it walking up the Mount (Mauao) and it's still superb! Check it out! I might even find the link at some point.
 
But I'm not allowed to post a link yet... You'll have to find it yourself. In the words of Tim Berners-Lee," Just 'ing Google it!"

Enjoy!
 
Like a lot of the contributors to this thread, I read a lot of Asimov when I was about 11 and thought it was fantastic. As I became older, I found that he really had no real character development, which is fine when you're writing in the short story format, which is all about ideas, but less satisfactory in a novel ( yes, I know they were published in magazines ). My respect for Asimov reached it's low point at university when a friend used a passage from an Asimov book as an introduction to his doctoral thesis. It was meant as a tribute but, when he sent a copy to Asimov, he was actually threatened with legal action by the publisher! What a git! Needless to say, when I culled my book collection prior to emigrating to New Zealand, around 3 metres worth of Asimov ended up in the secondhand bookshops lining Steep Hill in Lincoln. One thing I did remember, though, was a superb radio adaptation of the Foundation Trilogy by the BBC in about 1973. Isn't the Internet wonderful! I located the selfsame radio adaptation copyright free on the Internet Archive or somesuch. Listened to it walking up the Mount (Mauao) and it's still superb! Check it out! I might even find the link at some point.


Seems a bit harsh, you implied it was the publisher that threatened the action, not the man himself.

In fairness, I think they had a point. He should have sought permission. Not everyone would approve of their work being associated with someone else'. The general rule for this is protect your rights at all times or you will find you have lost them by default.

and I'm surprised the university didn't raise an objection or two.
 
Like a lot of the contributors to this thread, I read a lot of Asimov when I was about 11 and thought it was fantastic. As I became older, I found that he really had no real character development, which is fine when you're writing in the short story format, which is all about ideas, but less satisfactory in a novel ( yes, I know they were published in magazines ).
Different characters are focused upon in almost each new story throughout the original Foundation triliogy so of course there's not going to be any character development. Kind of an irrelevent criticism if you ask me.
 
A review of the original Foundation trilogy from my SFF blog:

Isaac Asimov (1920-1992) is acknowledged one of the "greats" of SF, a hugely productive multi-award-winning writer of novels and short stories as well as a science professor and non-fiction writer. His most productive fiction period was in the 1950s although new work was still being published into the 1990s. He is perhaps best known for the "Three Laws of Robotics" featured in his robot stories, but his most famous fictional work is probably the 1950s 'Foundation' trilogy: Foundation, Foundation & Empire,and Second Foundation (based on short stories from the early 1940s). I first read these in the 1960s but the last time I opened their pages was in the 1970s, so I was interested to see how these classic works stood up.

The time is the far future, with humanity spread over a vast galaxy-wide empire which had been ruled for thousands of years from the Imperial capitol at its heart, Trantor - a planet completely covered with buildings. But the huge spectacle of power presented by the Empire covers a gradual internal disintegration, with regional governors breaking free and creating their own kingdoms. Few people realise the inevitability of the decline, but among them is the famous psychohistorian, Hari Seldon. Psychohistory is the mathematical analysis of trends in society to predict the broad sweep of future social history. Seldon recognises that the disintegration is inevitable but aims to reduce the resulting "dark age" from a predicted 30,000 years to just 1,000 by setting up two Foundations, on planets at opposite ends of the galaxy, with the purpose of preserving human knowledge and skills.

Foundation

In the first volume, Seldon manages to obtain imperial permission to set up his Foundations, and the remainder of the book follows the fortunes of the First Foundation on the remote planet Terminus. The ostensible purpose is the creation of a vast Encyclopedia Galactica of all knowledge, and steady progress is made until the break-up of the Empire creates a crisis for the Foundation. A recorded image of the long-dead Seldon then appears, accurately predicting the crisis, and Salvor Hardin, the mayor, takes control from the academics and solves the problem, beginning a line of powerful mayors. They apply practical politics to managing their local area of the galactic fringe, controlling other planets by providing the high technology they have lost, wrapped up in the guise of an invented religion. These are in turn replaced by the traders, who ultimately develop into merchant princes, notably Hober Mallow, who are no less devious in their commitment to controlling their markets.

So far the first Foundation has been successful in following the path foreseen by Seldon, and confirmed by the occasional appearances of his recorded messages at moments of crisis. The Foundation has survived, maintaining its scientific knowledge and technology (and in some cases surpassing the achievements of the Empire, especially with miniature atomic power), and establishing a commercial empire in their small part of the galaxy. But the story is a long way from being over…

Foundation & Empire

The episodic nature of the first book, skipping generations at a time to focus on particular periods of crisis, is continued in the second but slows down somewhat, with only two parts this time. The first concerns the last attempt by a fading Empire to use its still powerful fleet, under the command of energetic Bel Riose, to crush the Foundation. The second and much longer part marks an intriguing side-step from the Seldon plan, when a mysterious new individual, never seen in public and known only as the Mule, seizes power in one system after another with astonishing ease, threatening the Foundation itself. This had not been foreseen by Seldon, and prompts a desperate journey to the heart of the old Empire in order to seek help from the legendary Second Foundation. Interestingly for the period in which it is written, this part features a heroine, Bayta, who is much more competent and impressive than her husband.

Second Foundation

The final part of the story continues with the search for the mysterious Second Foundation, concerning which there is only the briefest of references in the records, with no indication as to its nature or location. This is also in two parts, the first following on from the previous volume in covering the attempt by the Mule to locate and destroy the Second Foundation, the second a couple of generations later when growing tensions between the First and Second Foundations threaten to destroy Seldon's plan. This final part also features a strong female character, the precocious teenager Arcadia Darell (Arkady), Bayta's granddaughter.

To sum up, I greatly admire Asimov, not just for his landmark contributions to SF but also for his work in popularising science. The Foundation trilogy is a bold conception, a coherent and well-structured story covering four centuries and postulating a different kind of human civilisation based on developing mind skills rather than technological power. However, I have to say that despite his status in the genre, I find his fiction lacks something which keeps it out of the very front rank. While I enjoyed re-reading the Foundation trilogy it isn't as gripping as the very best fiction. There is a certain lack of excitement, of that "sense of wonder" which makes the best classic SF so compelling; instead, there's a flavour of didactic lesson about it. The episodic nature of the story, spread out over centuries with each episode featuring its own characters, also makes reader engagement more difficult to sustain.

Having said that, it's still an impressive achievement, especially for the 1940s. There are some nice touches: each part begins with an extract from the future Encyclopedia Galactica providing a brief introduction to the period (a neat way of inserting a useful little "info dump" to plug the gaps, copied by Herbert in Dune). The story also gets better as it goes along, as the longer episodes provide more time to focus on the key characters. In particular, Arkady is a marvellous creation, an observant and amusing portrayal of teenage dreams and angst. She gives the lie to the assumption that the early SF writers couldn't develop characters and must surely have been based on a girl or girls Asimov knew well.

In conclusion, the trilogy not only should be on the "must read" list of every SF fan who has any interest in the history of the genre, it is still worth reading in its own right.
 
List of books within the Foundation Universe




Prelude to Foundation contains Asimov's suggested reading order/chronology for his science fiction books in the introduction. An expanded and corrected strictly-chronological reading order for the books is listed below. Another alternative is to read the books in their original order of publication, since reading the Foundation prequels prior to reading the Foundation Trilogy fundamentally alters the original narrative structure of the trilogy by spoiling what were originally presented as plot surprises. Asimov noted that there is room for a book between Robots and Empire and The Currents of Space , and that he could follow Foundation and Earth with additional volumes but this was never accomplished by his own hands.

F# = Foundation series order
* = Original Trilogy


F# Year Title Notes

1 1950 I, Robot Robot short stories. First collection, which were all included in The Complete Robot, though it also contains binding text (Mind and Iron), no longer in The Complete Robot.
1 1982 The Complete Robot Collection of thirty-one robot short stories published between 1940 and 1976.
1986 Robot Dreams Robot short stories. Anthologized in a book with the same title.
1990 Robot Visions Robot short stories. Anthologized in a book with the same title.
1992 The Positronic Man Robot novel based on Asimov's short story The Bicentennial Man, co-written by Robert Silverberg
2 1954 The Caves of Steel This is the first of the robot novels.
3 1957 The Naked Sun The second robot novel.
4 1983 The Robots of Dawn The third robot novel.
2000 Mirage Robot Mystery series by Mark W. Tiedemann.
2001 Chimera Robot Mystery series by Mark W. Tiedemann.
2002 Aurora Robot Mystery series by Mark W. Tiedemann.
2005 Have Robot, Will Travel Robot Mystery series by Alexander C. Irvine.
5 1985 Robots and Empire The fourth robot novel.
1993 Isaac Asimov's Caliban Caliban trilogy by Roger MacBride Allen.
1994 Isaac Asimov's Inferno Caliban trilogy by Roger MacBride Allen.
1996 Isaac Asimov's Utopia Caliban trilogy by Roger MacBride Allen.
6 1951 The Stars, Like Dust This is the first of the Empire novels.
7 1952 The Currents of Space The second Empire novel.
8 1950 Pebble in the Sky The third Empire novel.
9 1988 Prelude to Foundation This is the first Foundation novel.
1997 Foundation's Fear Second Foundation trilogy by Gregory Benford.
10 1993 Forward the Foundation The second Foundation novel (although it is the latest written).
1998 Foundation and Chaos Second Foundation trilogy by Greg Bear.
1999 Foundation's Triumph Second Foundation trilogy by David Brin.
11 1951 * Foundation The third Foundation novel. Actually, it is a collection of four stories, originally published between 1942 and 1944, plus an introductory section written for the book in 1949.
12 1952 * Foundation and Empire The fourth Foundation novel, made up of two stories, originally published in 1945.
13 1953 * Second Foundation The fifth Foundation novel, made up of two stories, originally published in 1948 and 1949.
14 1982 Foundation's Edge The sixth Foundation novel.
15 1986 Foundation and Earth The seventh Foundation novel.
 
It should be pointed out (and perhaps it has, I haven't read all of the posts yet), that Asimov wrote Science Fiction during two distinct periods of his life. His Foundation series is, in fact, part of a much larger series that chronologically begins with The Caves of Steel, his first robot novel and ends with Foundation and Earth.

In chronological order the series is as follows:
The Robot Novels
Caves of Steel
The Naked Sun
The Robots of Dawn
Robots of Empire


The Galactic Empire Novels
The Stars, Like Dust
The Currents of Space
Pebble in the Sky


The Foundation Novels
Forward the Foundation
Prelude to Foundation
Foundation
Foundation and Empire
Second Foundation
Foundation's Edge
Foundation and Earth
.

What makes this larger series fascinating is that part of it was written during the Golden Age of Science Fiction (late 1940's thru the late 1950's) and part written during Science Fiction renaissance of the 1980's and 1990's. You have two very different types of novels and writing all interwoven into a single series. The first three Foundation novels are, as pointed out, not novels at all but loosely connected short stories/novellas. They really have to be taken as a whole as seen as what they are - a representation of 1000 years of future history told through a selection of meaningful events. The later Foundation novels (Prelude, Forward, Edge, and Earth), were all written much later in Asimov's life and are not only singular novels but in sense better written with better character development and more coherent stories and plot threads.

Even more fascinating are the four Robot novels. The first two (Caves and Sun) were written in the 1950's, the latter two, (Dawn and Empire), written in the 1980's. I feel like these novels are the best representation of the two sides of Isaac Asimov - the young, idealistic writer during the Golden Age of Science Fiction and the far more cynical, wiser, and funnier Asimov later in his life.
 
It should be pointed out (and perhaps it has, I haven't read all of the posts yet), that Asimov wrote Science Fiction during two distinct periods of his life.

It has. ;)

They really have to be taken as a whole as seen as what they are - a representation of 1000 years of future history told through a selection of meaningful events.

498 years (or was it 492? I think 498). It was a 1,000 year plan but the stories don't detail the whole thing (and the two sequels only advance the timeline slightly but I won't go too specifically into that). (Which is a nitpicky thing that doesn't affect your point, but just sayin'.)
 
I have the first 3 here, I have read Foundation and half of Foundation and Empire, just cant seem to get through them. I dont remember much about the first one at all, as for the second I remember the little also. I have to try again, maybe I'm just not "seeing" what others do in this series. As a series that gets raves, and a few rants I guess. I dont know why its so difficult to read them.

T
 
Foundation has always been a favorite of mine but you do suffer through it.
The later works done by various authors are much much better
 
I find the Foundation series sort of a high mark in my memory. I've read them several times. I'll agree that the writing and characterization may not be the best, but overall I find many of Asimov's ideas to be breathtaking. Read Foundation. Read the robot books. Then read Robots of Dawn, which brings the two together so seamlessly you'd think he'd planned them that way from the beginning.
 
Foundation has always been a favorite of mine but you do suffer through it.
The later works done by various authors are much much better

Sheer blasphamy in my mind!

Foundation pastiche by someone else is better than the classic SF series written by Asimov?
 
Oh boy!

Where do I start?

I have read this entire thread and whilst there are some very good points made, I have to disagree with a lot of them...

I read every story, novel, short, verse as if it is a stand-alone and not connected to anything else. This way I find that I enjoy the work without trying to connect the dots as it were.

I know Asimov did do a lot of work trying to connect characters, ideas, situations etc but I believe this was only a later thought and came from pressure from his editors and publishers.

In my honest opinion:

Read a story
Take it on it's own merits
Enjoy it

I know I will probably upset a lot of purists but this is the way I have always read and will continue to read.
 
List of books within the Foundation Universe




Prelude to Foundation contains Asimov's suggested reading order/chronology for his science fiction books in the introduction. An expanded and corrected strictly-chronological reading order for the books is listed below. Another alternative is to read the books in their original order of publication, since reading the Foundation prequels prior to reading the Foundation Trilogy fundamentally alters the original narrative structure of the trilogy by spoiling what were originally presented as plot surprises. Asimov noted that there is room for a book between Robots and Empire and The Currents of Space , and that he could follow Foundation and Earth with additional volumes but this was never accomplished by his own hands.

F# = Foundation series order
* = Original Trilogy


F# Year Title Notes

1 1950 I, Robot Robot short stories. First collection, which were all included in The Complete Robot, though it also contains binding text (Mind and Iron), no longer in The Complete Robot.
1 1982 The Complete Robot Collection of thirty-one robot short stories published between 1940 and 1976.
1986 Robot Dreams Robot short stories. Anthologized in a book with the same title.
1990 Robot Visions Robot short stories. Anthologized in a book with the same title.
1992 The Positronic Man Robot novel based on Asimov's short story The Bicentennial Man, co-written by Robert Silverberg
2 1954 The Caves of Steel This is the first of the robot novels.
3 1957 The Naked Sun The second robot novel.
4 1983 The Robots of Dawn The third robot novel.
2000 Mirage Robot Mystery series by Mark W. Tiedemann.
2001 Chimera Robot Mystery series by Mark W. Tiedemann.
2002 Aurora Robot Mystery series by Mark W. Tiedemann.
2005 Have Robot, Will Travel Robot Mystery series by Alexander C. Irvine.
5 1985 Robots and Empire The fourth robot novel.
1993 Isaac Asimov's Caliban Caliban trilogy by Roger MacBride Allen.
1994 Isaac Asimov's Inferno Caliban trilogy by Roger MacBride Allen.
1996 Isaac Asimov's Utopia Caliban trilogy by Roger MacBride Allen.
6 1951 The Stars, Like Dust This is the first of the Empire novels.
7 1952 The Currents of Space The second Empire novel.
8 1950 Pebble in the Sky The third Empire novel.
9 1988 Prelude to Foundation This is the first Foundation novel.
1997 Foundation's Fear Second Foundation trilogy by Gregory Benford.
10 1993 Forward the Foundation The second Foundation novel (although it is the latest written).
1998 Foundation and Chaos Second Foundation trilogy by Greg Bear.
1999 Foundation's Triumph Second Foundation trilogy by David Brin.
11 1951 * Foundation The third Foundation novel. Actually, it is a collection of four stories, originally published between 1942 and 1944, plus an introductory section written for the book in 1949.
12 1952 * Foundation and Empire The fourth Foundation novel, made up of two stories, originally published in 1945.
13 1953 * Second Foundation The fifth Foundation novel, made up of two stories, originally published in 1948 and 1949.
14 1982 Foundation's Edge The sixth Foundation novel.
15 1986 Foundation and Earth The seventh Foundation novel.

So... I've hardly read Asimov since I was a youngster 40 years ago. Should I read, say, The Stars, Like Dust now? (I sure like the title, anyway.)
 
So... I've hardly read Asimov since I was a youngster 40 years ago. Should I read, say, The Stars, Like Dust now? (I sure like the title, anyway.)
Some might say (uncharitably, but possibly accurately) that the title is the best thing about The Stars, Like Dust. Now, I'm a big fan of Isaac and hold out that he didn't write anything that didn't have considerable merit, so that comment is in part because the title is so good! While I think the novel is enjoyable, it is probably one of his weaker ones though. I prefer his robot novels, The Naked Sun particularly. (Which also has a pretty good title now I think on it).
 
When I was a wee lad, a bookmobile came to our school. Not having much money, I bought the Foundation trilogy for $1.50, which seemed like the most bang for the buck, by pages/penny at least (3 shiny new paperbacks!).

That decision was one of the most important of my early life. Isaac Asimov was perhaps the last great polymath. This series encompasses some of his greatest wisdom IMHO. Psychohistory will likely overshadow robots eventually.
 

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