Do You Think it Possible That Philip K Dick Could Have Been An Influence On Frank Herbert's Dune ?

[BAYLOR]

Yes, this probably one the craziest question ive ever asked and its poably more then a bit of a reach but , I figured itstill might be worth asking.

Thoughts ?

 

[Robert Zwilling]

Both of them were interested in religion but in different ways. Influence could have gone both ways. Might be interesting to look at a time line of events between the two, maybe include a few others, compare the writing that came out over time. Both trying to make a movie around the same time. Mutual friends and interests might turn something up. Ridley Scott left the Dune movie to work on Blade Runner because things were progressing too slow for him over at the Dune production. PKD wrote an introduction for Herbert Herbert at the Vancouver Science Fiction Convention in 1974. Religious wise, one article said PKD said he was an religious anarchist, though his stories had religious overtones and undercurrents the characters didn't seem particularly religious. At first glance Herbert seemed to be somewhat conservative religious wise but Dune seems to portray the opposite of that. PKD is living inside the soul, while Herbert is describing the soul from the outside. Their writing styles seem incompatible, its like comparing everything Marvel Comics created and the Bible.

 

[BAYLOR]

For some reason , Phillip K Dicks novel The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldridge kind gave me the idea for this thread.

 

[Robert Zwilling]

The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldridge was written in 1964, published in 1965. Dune was started in 1959, serial published in 1964-4 and as a book in 1965. The Dune establishment was established long before Palmer Eldridge came along.

 

[BAYLOR]

The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldridge was written in 1964, published in 1965. Dune was started in 1959, serial published in 1964-4 and as a book in 1965. The Dune establishment was established long before Palmer Eldridge came along.

So much for that idea.

 

[tinkerdan]

For some reason , Phillip K Dicks novel The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldridge kind gave me the idea for this thread

Odd fact--one cover for the Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldridge was take from a Dune artwork: So, maybe that's what triggered this;

 

[BAYLOR]

Odd fact--one cover for the Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldridge was take from a Dune artwork: So, maybe that's what triggered this;View attachment 119561

It does look a bit Dune like .

 

[Robert Zwilling]

Apparently the Dune cover is from 1968 and the 3 Stigmata cover is from 1975.

The Three Stigmata had Mars as a desert with sand dredges and flying copter satellite vehicles which seem pretty close to the picture but I never saw the clothing looking like that. Traditional western style work clothes is what I imagined. Protective clothing would have made a lot more sense but you see what you like to see. I wonder how many other books got the same covers.

 

[BAYLOR]

Apparently the Dune cover is from 1968 and the 3 Stigmata cover is from 1975.

The Three Stigmata had Mars as a desert with sand dredges and flying copter satellite vehicles which seem pretty close to the picture but I never saw the clothing looking like that. Traditional western style work clothes is what I imagined. Protective clothing would have made a lot more sense but you see what you like to see. I wonder how many other books got the same covers.

View attachment 119565

Some of the colors are different , but other then that, It looks like the same exact picture.

 

[Robert Zwilling]

Here is a good interview with Phillip K dick about the writing and selling of some of his stories. He also discusses interactions with a lot of other science fiction authors, early publishing experiences, and some of his personal views about a variety of subjects.

 

[Robert Zwilling]

An interesting note to what is science fiction, can be found in the you tube interview. P K Dick says that in his early years, some editors thought you needed a rocket ship in the story for it to be science fiction. He described an even funnier description of what could be called science fiction by the big publishers. The rule was simple, if a science fiction story had a couple of swear words which could be taken out without changing the story, it was science fiction. If a science fiction story had a lot of profanity in it, which could not be taken out of the story without changing the story, then it was mainstream literature.

Fiction is the greatest escape vehicle ever designed. Reading is the easiest route as it takes a lot of time, even if you have to read several books, it still takes you away from reality. Even without a written book, no matter how bad things are, you can dream up a story, either your own, or a rehash of something read, or a mixture of whatever you want to remember.

At some point in time, P K Dick started thinking that the universe we see is god first, and secondly, it is seen/experienced as whatever illusions we make out of what we see. We are wandering around in the god that is the universe looking for god.

Unlike the supposedly real world, fiction has no rules, no constraints. This allows people to compare anything they want to anything else they want to compare it to. Originally, the word religion was always about a way of life that somehow gods or a god would be involved.

In the 1960s and 1950s consumerism became a religion because it now gave people a way to celebrate or practice beliefs in a common way, with everyone using the same implements.

P K Dick had a negative transcendental experience in 1963 that caused him and his family to attend church services for a while. He wrote The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch in 1964. This could be more connected to his 1963 experience than what other writers, including Herbert, were saying at the time.

Stories about religion now have a lot of latitude of what can be included in the story. Dune seems to be an honest attempt at creating a religion in a science fiction/fantasy world. While it includes drugs, the drugs bring people into the real world.

The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch explores some very basic tenets about religion, but to me, it also looks more like a mockery of modern religion. The story features as one article states, the Stigmata are alienation, despair, and blurred reality. It is presented in a comedic manner where one world based on drugs is replaced by another world based on drugs. The drugs allow people living in dreary circumstances to share pleasurable existences within each other's minds.

The shared experience becomes using drugs so everyone can exist in another person's hallucination where one can find god by believing what one wants to believe. Thoughts are repeatedly modified step by step to create the desired look of the world and the people in it, inside someone else's hallucination. The hallmark of the hallucinated world are the Stigmata, which have been transformed from the wounds of Christ into artificial body parts on the inhabitants of the hallucinated world.