The 13th Doctor Reveal Thread

  1. Vladd67

    Vladd67 Stake Holder

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    Except when a Trill was first shown in Star Trek it was transferred from a male host to a female host, much to the disappointment of Beverly who was in a relationship with the male host, so the idea in DS9 that Dax used to be a man was no surprise.
     
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  2. TheDustyZebra

    TheDustyZebra Inspired. Or possibly insane. Could go either way. Staff Member

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    So of course I have to watch it now. :D

    Along with more Broadchurch, which I haven't actually seen since the American fiasco started and I gave up on it despite David Tennant.

    I'm trying to remember all this stuff, in vain. How do you people remember all this stuff?
     
  3. Overread

    Overread Direwolf of the chrons

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    Attack the Block wasn't too bad for what was clearly quite low budget.


    And yes Vlad raises the point that Trills were early on shown to shift male to female with the hosts. Plus Kurzon hadn't had a legacy of decades of being a male character. For the Dr the whole male-to-female is kind of a totally new concept introduced very recently*. So its a sudden big shift to the character itself to suddenly go female. Sure the Dr can remain the Dr, but I just feel they missed an ideal opportunity to have TWO Dr.s

    *in the past in its original run the male to female was a spoof done during one of the Charity shows with Black Adder as the Dr
     
  4. Vladd67

    Vladd67 Stake Holder

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    Cos we are sad sci fi fans with no life :D
     
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  5. TheDustyZebra

    TheDustyZebra Inspired. Or possibly insane. Could go either way. Staff Member

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    So am I! I just also have no memory.
     
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  6. farntfar

    farntfar Ah well.Back to normal

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    First of all sorry Ursa. Yes, the fuss of which I speak was over Troughton to Pertwee. No-one gave a damn about Pertwee to Baker.
    But apart from that...

    The question has been asked both why has the BBC waited so long to have the Doctor regenerate as a woman and why have the done it now, or would he change now after so long staying a man.

    Now we also know that a time lord normally has a certain choice about his reincarnations, although the doctor is generally pretty upset by his.
    My suggestion is that he has generally restricted himself to male regenerations for whatever reason, but that having seen how well it went for Missy, he's decided to give it a go at last.
     
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  7. Vladd67

    Vladd67 Stake Holder

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    Sadly I too seem to have no memory, except for old tv plots and comedy sketches.
     
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  8. Luiglin

    Luiglin by day Stuart Orford by night Dark Lord's scribe

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    @TheDustyZebra Attack the Block is well worth a watch. Quite a large chunk of the humour is UK/London based though.
     
  9. Paul_C

    Paul_C Well-Known Member

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  10. thaddeus6th

    thaddeus6th Well-Known Member

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    The Queen is Duke of Normandy, I believe. If taken as a title there are rare circumstances where a woman can hold a man's title. I think an Egyptian pharaoh and Chinese female ruler were both accorded male titles as well.

    [As an aside, the use of 'actor' for actresses continues to bamboozle me. The gender neutral term is thespian. Using the male form as a norm for both genders presupposes being an actor is better than being an actress, so it's just a bit odd].
     
  11. Ursa major

    Ursa major Bearly Believable Staff Member

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    I'm pretty sure -- given it has been discussed in the run up to every recent regeneration -- that the Doctor being a woman has been on the cards for years (and without having to recall the events of a single episode of a different show).

    You believe correctly.
    It caught me out, once or twice, when marriages of actors were mentioned in the Grauniad before same-sex marriages became legal.
     
  12. Perpetual Man

    Perpetual Man Tim James

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    I have had a few days to think about this and trying to be very careful how this comes out, but I am not happy with the idea of a female Doctor but (and this is the important bit) in the way that the BBC have decided to implement it.


    For me there has to be a logical progression of the story, there has to be a reason for it and at this precise moment there is no reason. Oh, it could be argued that Moffat has been trying to pave the way for a female Doctor for the last season at least but the rules of the show (up until Missy) have clearly shown a male female divide between the Time Lords and Time Ladies (Any female Gallifreyan was always referred to as such indicating there was a gender divide between their sexes.)


    We don’t really know how regeneration works, although there was a different effect for each of the classic show Doctors, it seems to have been standardised as the explosive effect in the modern Who. (It’s good I like it.) There seems to be a massive release of energy, and it completely rewrites the genetic structure of the regenerating individual, shrinking back into the new form quite nicely. When taken like this, if the regeneration is on such a minute scale there is no reason that the biology could not be altered in the process to switch between male and female.


    I can believe that should a Time Lord regenerate naturally – gets old decides to regenerate then they could change gender, but it is not the way it has been portrayed in the show. The Doctor has had very few natural regenerations, his are generally caused by outside factors – really old age, poison, a long fall, smacking his head on the TARDIS console*


    With this sudden and explosive regeneration, there should be no control over it. A total random regeneration, something that has been backed up by the Doctor’s reaction when checking himself out after the event. Therefore, it should be random. Totally. Male or female. 50/50 chance. Try flipping a coin 13 times, the chances of getting 13 heads in a row is very unlikely. The same is true with the regeneration, the Doctor should have been a woman before now. He hasn’t.


    Until Missy, the Master regenerated from male to male.


    Borusa, the Doctor’s old teacher appeared four times, each time he was male.


    Romana regenerated once – controlled, with even a period of instability to try out bodies – unless she went through a lot of regenerations very quickly, each one female.


    Leela married Andred, not once did they say, “Look, when I regenerate there might be a problem later!”


    When the Sisterhood of Karn controlled the Doctor’s regeneration into the War Doctor there was no question of a woman.


    Although I don’t really count it as canon, when the Doctor fought Morbius in the Brain of Morbius and we saw previous regenerations of either the Doctor or Morbius they were all male.


    And when the Time Lords punished the Doctor at the end of the War Games forcefully, he was shown a number of faces to choose from (he rejected them all, so they chose John Pertwee), but not one of them were female.


    It is easy to say that the Time Lords are meant to be so advanced that they are beyond gender, but all the evidence points to the opposite. They are meant to be a slowly decaying society, they have reached their peak and now crumbling.


    Now, as Luiglin said, if there was a solid reason for the change – when the Doctor was granted a second set of regenerations after Matt Smith and he became female that would be acceptable, but only if she remained female throughout the next run of regenerations.


    With all that being said, I’m interested to see where they take the show with a female lead. It will freshen it, make it different.


    I’m not sure that I like the choice of actor, but then I’ve not seen her in anything so she deserves a chance, I just felt she did not seem otherworldly enough in the brief glance we have seen so far.


    And, of course, there may be a very good reason for the gender swap, after all we have not seen the regeneration yet.


    *come on, six to seven was an awful regeneration.
     
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  13. Perpetual Man

    Perpetual Man Tim James

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    [​IMG]

    Sarah Jane Smith, been there, seen it, got one.
     
  14. Brian G Turner

    Brian G Turner He's a very naughty boy! Staff Member

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    That sounds like the path to madness - most popular franchises don't seem to have been written with any real sense of continuity in mind. :)
     
  15. farntfar

    farntfar Ah well.Back to normal

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    OK. If computers count, also note Eddie, the shipboard computer of the Heart of Gold's sex-change, when Zaphod tried loading the alternative personality as they landed on Magrathea.
     
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  16. Luiglin

    Luiglin by day Stuart Orford by night Dark Lord's scribe

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    Being a huge Red Dwarf I had no issue with this change as there was no pressure to for the swap. It just happened, there done it, no problem, carry on and all that.

    The issue I have with the 13th is the reason for change doesn't feel like it is anything to do with the show or the characters. It feels more like the BBC has just ticked a box for the sake of it. That's the disappointing part for me.
     
  17. farntfar

    farntfar Ah well.Back to normal

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    Or for the sake of a large number of people who have been asking for it for a long time.
     
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  18. Luiglin

    Luiglin by day Stuart Orford by night Dark Lord's scribe

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    The time in this respect is immaterial. It just feels forced rather than warrented.
     
  19. REBerg

    REBerg Registered Alien

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    Whatever the BBC's motives for making the change might be, it's a great decision. I'm looking forward to the new series with even greater anticipation than usual.
    I do think that they made a huge mistake in revealing the 13th Doctor before the regeneration. The gender swap would have been such a mind-blower at the end of the Christmas special.
     
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  20. Luiglin

    Luiglin by day Stuart Orford by night Dark Lord's scribe

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    I suspect they want to start filming soon. As such it would have be difficult to keep it under wraps. However, I agree, if they could have done it would have been fantastic.
     
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