double semi colons

[Ursa major]

You do realise that some of us really like AFfC, don't you, Springs?


By the way, you must have a good idea of which chapter contained those two (paired?) semicolons. It would be helpful if we were able to analyse the actual example rather than merely discussing the topic in the abstract.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

When the sentence is a list and the various items in the list have internal punctuation, then you need to have a series of semicolons, or it's not only incorrect, it may be confusing.

In other situations (as is so often the case), it all depends.

Personally, I am wary of using multiple semicolons except where necessary, but it doesn't bother me at all when other people do it.

And let's keep in mind that most readers don't notice semicolons at all. If you want to use two or three to achieve the effect you're after, they aren't going to complain.

 

[David Evil Overlord]

Yes! You know what happens when I read suddenly? I pause for effect. Why am I pausing when its a 'sudden act'? Shouldn't I be reading quicker, not pausing? But that is the effect 'suddenly' has on me.

Next you'll be asking why "abbreviation" is such a long word.

 

[David Evil Overlord]

His writing is very good in places, he does show not tell very well, but he does repeat things he's already told you too often, and how many times do so many characters pound tables with fists when there's painful medical interventions? So far, i think every time.

Ah, the joys of medical intervention sans anaesthetic

 

[Warren_Paul]

Next you'll be asking why "abbreviation" is such a long word.

Now that you mention it....

 

[Jo Zebedee]

You do realise that some of us really like AFfC, don't you, Springs?


By the way, you must have a good idea of which chapter contained those two (paired?) semicolons. It would be helpful if we were able to analyse the actual example rather than merely discussing the topic in the abstract.

I do, and that's why I made it very clear it was only in my opinion. And, I didn't say I didn't like it - I wouldn't have read on as far as I have if that was the case - but that there were certain things I, personally, didn't like, as there is in most books I read, esp. something of this size. I have struggled with AFFC; but that's just me.

I'll have another look and see if I can find it.

 

[HareBrain]

I have struggled with AFFC; but that's just me.

Not just you ...

As for the topic, I'm pretty sure there's at least one double-use of semi-colons in my WIP, and it wouldn't bother me to encounter it once in a blue moon. But people are different -- I got a critique once from a reader who said he didn't like colons in consecutive sentences.

 

[Ursa major]

As it happens, I can understand why that person commented on the two colons. While we worry about the survival of the semicolon, its use is still comparatively frequent compared to that of the colon. So if we see two colons close together, we might see this as odd, and so find it distracting.

Let's hope the semicolon doesn't become so rare that its (by then) infrequent appearances begin to become, literally, remarkable.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

He stopped climbing; he listended; he watched.


this isn't the same one that annoyed me so much - i can't find it, but someone else found this one in the prologue. (Ty, timba. )

This one flows a bit better than the other, but to my mind, it still looks wrong. To me there should be a longer pause after climbing than between listened and watched.

So maybe a colon, then a semi colon, or even horror! A semi colon and a comma splice to give staccato action. or what is wrong with and?

 

[Ursa major]

A don't think a colon would work. Although perhaps it might, if it were written thus:

He stopped climbing: to listen; to watch.

I don't know if it's one of the correct usages of the colon, but I sometimes take its presence to mean that what follows helps to explain why the action preceding the colon occurred.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Looking at that, i think you're right, and it's not a colon, the two parts are linked.




he stopped climbing; he listened and watched. maybe not enough impact there

he stopped climbing. he listened; he watched.

or;

He stopped climbing; he listened, watched.

 

[HareBrain]

To be honest, I find the double semi-colon more elegant than any of those. Which might be why he used it.

 

[Abernovo]

See, if I was writing it myself, I would normally go with something along the lines of

He stopped climbing; he listened, watched.

With HB's comment that the double semi-colon is more elegant, I'm now debating my style. In a good way - a 'wanting-to-be-the-best-that-I-can' kind of way.

HB, sorry to bug you, but what makes it more elegant? Because for me the three 'he's jarred, which was one reason why I wouldn't have used two semi-colons.

 

[The Judge]

I think we're in danger of forgetting what the punctuation also does -- it indicates the length of pause. It may be that he simply wanted a longer pause than two commas but not as long as two full stops, but he wanted the length to be the same to give each of the three parts equal weight.

Aber, I'd agree with HB that it's more elegant than spring's example which you quote. Firstly the comma used in that way (which may or may not be a comma splice) is jarring. Say it out loud, and it's jerky. Using the three "he"s is smoother -- using three of anything is a rhetorical device which has been known since Ancient Greece (and probably beyond).

 

[HareBrain]

HB, sorry to bug you, but what makes it more elegant? Because for me the three 'he's jarred, which was one reason why I wouldn't have used two semi-colons.

Er ... apart from TJ's device of rhetorical threesomes, I'm not sure I could tell you why I find it more elegant (which is different to saying it is more elegant). It might help that when I read it, I make the second semi-colon a slightly shorter pause than the first. I don't know if this is to balance the fact that the first clause is longer.

Out of interest, do you find the three "I"s jarring in this? "I came, I saw, I conquered".

 

[Ursa major]

Out of interest, do you find the three "I"s jarring in this? "I came, I saw, I conquered".

No, but I'm not sure about those commas....

​

 

[Abernovo]

Er ... apart from TJ's device of rhetorical threesomes, I'm not sure I could tell you why I find it more elegant (which is different to saying it is more elegant). It might help that when I read it, I make the second semi-colon a slightly shorter pause than the first. I don't know if this is to balance the fact that the first clause is longer.

Out of interest, do you find the three "I"s jarring in this? "I came, I saw, I conquered".

I don't, although I prefer the Latin version - punchier.

It might just be that sentence - 'He stopped climbing; he listened; he watched' - that I dislike, although I am more than willing to concede that it is more elegant. I agree with TJ that the semi-colons define the pause and the use of a trio is, literally, a classic device. I'm going to go away and think.

 

[Interference]

The thing that has been bugging me is that, surely, each of these is a sentence in its own right:


I came. I saw. I conquered.;

He stopped climbing. He listened. He watched.


and so forth. Where I might find them acceptable is where, in a definable context, it might read:


I followed his movements with interest: He stopped climbing; he listened; he watched.


as, in this case, it becomes a list, and not a sequence, of actions. It could even be argued that the three actions aren't actually separated by time, in that they could, and probably did, all occur simultaneously; in which case the listing, and semi-colonising, conveys the author's intent more accurately.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

You only use semicolons in a list where there is internal punctuation or independent clauses.

At the meeting, there were several people I knew: Mr. Jones, the vice principal; one of the history teachers; Mrs. White, my neighbor; and the chairman of the committee.

If there were only commas, a reader might have difficulty figuring out whether the sentence refers to four, five, or six people; whether Mrs. White is the history teacher, the neighbor, or a separate individual altogether; or if Mrs. White is the neighbor, who also happens to be chairman of the committee.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Now, he knew: he wouldn’t; he hadn’t; he couldn’t.

or

Now, he knew. He wouldn't, he hadn't, he couldn't.

or

Now, he knew; he wouldn't, he hadn't, he couldn't.


For context the lead in line is: He'd wondered how he’d cope if it was him.


This might go on for a while, I suspect, but I quite like the first version, which is in my draft stage when I just spew words onto a page any which way they need to. I was about to tidy it, and then thought the semi colons give a desperate edge to it, like a gulping breath between, and I'd like to keep that sense.