Classic Fantasy Pre 1980s
- Thread starter GOLLUM
- Start date
Rane Longfox
Red Rane
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2004
- Messages
- 2,651
Will chargrilled Spartan do?
Rane Longfox
Red Rane
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2004
- Messages
- 2,651
English wine wins loads of awards, you know
I'm afraid Lacey is being awkward, he doesn't want to get onto the BBQ. Sorry, the Braai...
I'm afraid Lacey is being awkward, he doesn't want to get onto the BBQ. Sorry, the Braai...
Alia
Young at Heart
Your too young for wine Cal... soda only for you.
Are americans allowed at this Braai or is it by Goddess invite only?
Lovecraft... that's ringing some famaliar bells... Ah I remember now, Gollum's next author.
Are americans allowed at this Braai or is it by Goddess invite only?
Lovecraft... that's ringing some famaliar bells... Ah I remember now, Gollum's next author.
Hi all!
I don't mean to be a party pooper but I'd prefer it if you tried to stick a little more to the topic at hand please.
There's plenty of other threads where you can have these types of discussions I think and HEY I don't mind a bit of friendly banter but I do think things got off the rails a little bit here.
Yes I acknowledge I was having a bit of friendly banter with Alia but it generally revolved around the topic I'd posted here. Fair enough everyone?
All the best.
I don't mean to be a party pooper but I'd prefer it if you tried to stick a little more to the topic at hand please.
There's plenty of other threads where you can have these types of discussions I think and HEY I don't mind a bit of friendly banter but I do think things got off the rails a little bit here.
Yes I acknowledge I was having a bit of friendly banter with Alia but it generally revolved around the topic I'd posted here. Fair enough everyone?
All the best.
HMMM..I may have got slightly jumpy with that previous post BUT I think you know what I was trying to say?? Please all nod your heads in sync
The next author summary (de Camp) will appear in a couple of days and after that will be Herr Lovecraft.
Bye Y'all
BUT I think you know what I was trying to say?? Please all nod your heads in sync The next author summary (de Camp) will appear in a couple of days and after that will be Herr Lovecraft.
Bye Y'all
Robert E. Howard's Conan stories are the sort of thing that everyone thinks they know all about, whether or not they've actually ever read them. Racking my brains, I begin to fear that I may belong in the latter category -- either that, or any reading I've done along those lines was so far, far in the past that no memory of an actual storyline remains.
Most probably I should rectify that. In the past, I've discovered that the books/stories I thought myself tolerably familiar with through hearsay were in reality very different from anything I imagined. (Case in point: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde by R. L. Stevenson.)
So, any recommendations, anyone, on the best of REH's Conan tales that I ought to try and look up?
Most probably I should rectify that. In the past, I've discovered that the books/stories I thought myself tolerably familiar with through hearsay were in reality very different from anything I imagined. (Case in point: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde by R. L. Stevenson.)
So, any recommendations, anyone, on the best of REH's Conan tales that I ought to try and look up?
Alia
Young at Heart
Gollum, I was wondering if Marion Zimmer Bradley belongs to in your list of pre 1980 fantasy writers? Or even William Goldman with The Princess Bride. I think his fairy tale of high adventure may be a stretch, but I thought I would ask.
Kelpie I can relate to the Conan stories. I think I know the story, but haven't read them yet. Gollum states that the movies (which I have seen) 'display little resemblance to the original tales'. Yet, I liked the movies, not so much for the Austrian Actor, and am curious on how close the books are. My one flaw in life it reading the books and comparing them to the movies. I always end up hating the movies because they slaughter the books.
I have put these books on my reading list (I'll even admit that I bought two off of ebay this last week), but I feel that reading list is getting rather long. Mostly due to this thread! I think your going to fast for me Gollum by posting a new author every week! Sould be once a month or two months ~ I'm a slow reader!
Kelpie I can relate to the Conan stories. I think I know the story, but haven't read them yet. Gollum states that the movies (which I have seen) 'display little resemblance to the original tales'. Yet, I liked the movies, not so much for the Austrian Actor, and am curious on how close the books are. My one flaw in life it reading the books and comparing them to the movies. I always end up hating the movies because they slaughter the books.
I have put these books on my reading list (I'll even admit that I bought two off of ebay this last week), but I feel that reading list is getting rather long. Mostly due to this thread! I think your going to fast for me Gollum by posting a new author every week! Sould be once a month or two months ~ I'm a slow reader!
Alia,
Sorry about posting an author per week but otherwise I'll be here for ever trying to post these authors. You can always refer back to this thread over time to check out stuff.
Yep Marion Zimmer Bradley wasn't on my list but I'll look to add her. Her Darkover sereis (started 1960s) and Avalon books (late 1970s) are probably her best known stuff. I tended to focus more on authors whose work come more into the mainstream focus I suppose pre 1980s so her Darkover stuff is more what would get her over the line if you see what I mean.
Yes "The Princess Bride" (1974) is considered as something of a classic but not sure if I'll add Goldmann at this stage. I'll wait until I've ploughed through the current lot first.
Thanks for the input.
Kelpie,
As per a previous post from Alia, I‘ve only read some of the Conan tales myself so I’m sure there are others in this forum that have read more and can recommend some.
I can however refer back to a previous post about the issue of which Conan tales are the authentic REH ones. As a scholar of the classics I’m sure you would prefer to read the original stories rather than those that were in some cases heavily edited by Mr de Camp.
Anyways, I’ll try to give you the shorter version here.
Basically the following is the original list of Conan tales as they appeared in the 1930s Weird Tales magazine including “The Hour Of The Dragon”, which was his only published novel in 1950, obviously after his death.
1. "The Phoenix on the Sword”
2. "The Scarlet Citadel"
3. "The Tower of the Elephant”
4. "Black Colossus"
5. "The Slithering Shadow"
6. "The Pool of the Black One"
7. "Rogues in the House"
8. "Shadows in the Moonlight"
9. "Queen of the Black Coast"
10. “The Devil in Iron"
11. "The People of the Black Circle" a 3 part series
12. "A Witch Shall Be Born”
13. "Teeth of Gwahlur"
14. "Beyond the Black River" 2-part series
15. "The Man-Eaters of Zamboula"
16. The Hour of the Dragon (novel) - 5-part series
17. "Red Nails" - 3-part series
These stories were republished following varying levels of editing by L. Sprague De Camp in the main for the Lancer/Ace paperback editions and Gnomes Press hardback editions mainly in the 1950s and 60s in addition to some other unpublished stories found by Mr de Camp. Hence the controversy with REH fans and scholars. Having said that without Mr de Camp, Conan may not have seen the light of day or at least quite so quickly.
Four additional REH completed Conan tales that were not published as either Conan tales or at all during his lifetime also exist. Amazingly three of these lost manuscripts were rediscovered by de Camp in the 1950s at the bottom of a cardboard box of then REH literary agent Oscar J. Friend. Unfortunately, these three stories were fairly heavily edited by de Camp.
1. “The Black Stranger” was rewritten by de Camp as a Conan tale and submitted as “The “Treasure Of Tranicos” originally published by Gnome Press and later by Lancer/Ace books. Other versions also exist but not in the original REH format. Actually REH rewrote this as a pirate’s tale after the original Conan tale was rejected as “Swords Of The Red Brotherhood” although this story was not published until l 976.
2. Interestingly “The Frost-Giant’s Daughter” was resubmitted and subsequently published by REH as “The Gods Of The North” but with the main character changed to Amra of Akbitana. *The original submitted title by REH was “The Frost-King’s Daughter” but changed to the other by the publisher*. Subsequently “The Frost-Giant’s Daughter” was edited and submitted by de Camp restoring Conan as the main character for Gnome Press in the 1950s. The REH manuscript and an even earlier REH version have been subsequently published.
3. “The God In The Bowl” despite being a completed story by REH was subsequently rewritten/edited more than once by Mr. de Camp for both Gnome Press and Lancer/Ace books.
4. “The Vale Of The Lost Women” the fourth completed but unpublished Conan tale did not see the light of day until then REH agent Glen Lord discovered it in the mid 1960s along with the REH fragments/synopsis as discussed next. Along with de Camp they submitted the work for publication with only very minor changes.
The five following REH fragments/synopsis .i.e. “incomplete stories” found by Glen Lord were subsequently edited and completed by de Camp and/or Lin Carter. The original fragments can be viewed, as I will allude to at the end of this post.
1. “The Hall Of The Dead” – synopsis only by REH, written as a full story.
2. “The Hand Of Nergal” – REH fragment or partly completed story, written as full story.
3. “The Snout In The Dark” _REH fragment ditto as per No. 2 but also included REH synopsis
4. “The Drums Of Tombalku” – ditto as No. 3
5. “Wolves Beyond The Border” – ditto as No. 3.
*WARNING*
The four following tales originally submitted by de Camp were not actually written as Conan tales by REH. They were in fact historical or oriental tales but Mr. De Camp apparently rewrote the stories and changed the names to include Conan to publish them with Gnome Press as Conan tales.
1. “The Blood Stained God” (REH title The Trail Of The Blood Stained God)
2. “Hawks Over Shem” (REH title Hawks Over Egypt)
3. “The Road Of The Eagles” (unchanged)
4. “The Flame Knife” (REH title The Three-Bladed Doom)
Of course Mr. De Camp is not the only one to have written Conan tales (incl. Robert Jordan) but these particular ones do come from original REH tales.
Anyways, the original Weird Tales stories and other so called “fragmentary” Conan stories (i.e. incomplete), synopsises etc.. in their original format have been recently published (2002-2004) in a 3 volume hardback version by Wandering Stars Publishers. However trade paperback editions are now coming out in 3 volumes by Ballantine Books. If you want to read the stories as originally written in their “purest” form by REH then this is where you should look!!
You’ll also be happy to hear that just recently as in April!!! many of REHs works from the pulp magazines like Weird Tales and other mags of the time including unpublished stuff and of course his “western” stories albeit with weird or supernatural undertones at times have been published in collections available from University Of Nebraska Press under their Bison label.).
*NB Not sure if you can get these in the shops or only online via this website?
Just click on this link and you’ll see the titles in the first few books featured.
http://www.nebraskapress.unl.edu/special/newThisMonth.jsp
Hope this proves a useful guide for you mate.
Sorry about posting an author per week but otherwise I'll be here for ever trying to post these authors. You can always refer back to this thread over time to check out stuff.
Yep Marion Zimmer Bradley wasn't on my list but I'll look to add her. Her Darkover sereis (started 1960s) and Avalon books (late 1970s) are probably her best known stuff. I tended to focus more on authors whose work come more into the mainstream focus I suppose pre 1980s so her Darkover stuff is more what would get her over the line if you see what I mean.
Yes "The Princess Bride" (1974) is considered as something of a classic but not sure if I'll add Goldmann at this stage. I'll wait until I've ploughed through the current lot first.
Thanks for the input.
Kelpie,
As per a previous post from Alia, I‘ve only read some of the Conan tales myself so I’m sure there are others in this forum that have read more and can recommend some.
I can however refer back to a previous post about the issue of which Conan tales are the authentic REH ones. As a scholar of the classics I’m sure you would prefer to read the original stories rather than those that were in some cases heavily edited by Mr de Camp.
Anyways, I’ll try to give you the shorter version here.
Basically the following is the original list of Conan tales as they appeared in the 1930s Weird Tales magazine including “The Hour Of The Dragon”, which was his only published novel in 1950, obviously after his death.
1. "The Phoenix on the Sword”
2. "The Scarlet Citadel"
3. "The Tower of the Elephant”
4. "Black Colossus"
5. "The Slithering Shadow"
6. "The Pool of the Black One"
7. "Rogues in the House"
8. "Shadows in the Moonlight"
9. "Queen of the Black Coast"
10. “The Devil in Iron"
11. "The People of the Black Circle" a 3 part series
12. "A Witch Shall Be Born”
13. "Teeth of Gwahlur"
14. "Beyond the Black River" 2-part series
15. "The Man-Eaters of Zamboula"
16. The Hour of the Dragon (novel) - 5-part series
17. "Red Nails" - 3-part series
These stories were republished following varying levels of editing by L. Sprague De Camp in the main for the Lancer/Ace paperback editions and Gnomes Press hardback editions mainly in the 1950s and 60s in addition to some other unpublished stories found by Mr de Camp. Hence the controversy with REH fans and scholars. Having said that without Mr de Camp, Conan may not have seen the light of day or at least quite so quickly.
Four additional REH completed Conan tales that were not published as either Conan tales or at all during his lifetime also exist. Amazingly three of these lost manuscripts were rediscovered by de Camp in the 1950s at the bottom of a cardboard box of then REH literary agent Oscar J. Friend. Unfortunately, these three stories were fairly heavily edited by de Camp.
1. “The Black Stranger” was rewritten by de Camp as a Conan tale and submitted as “The “Treasure Of Tranicos” originally published by Gnome Press and later by Lancer/Ace books. Other versions also exist but not in the original REH format. Actually REH rewrote this as a pirate’s tale after the original Conan tale was rejected as “Swords Of The Red Brotherhood” although this story was not published until l 976.
2. Interestingly “The Frost-Giant’s Daughter” was resubmitted and subsequently published by REH as “The Gods Of The North” but with the main character changed to Amra of Akbitana. *The original submitted title by REH was “The Frost-King’s Daughter” but changed to the other by the publisher*. Subsequently “The Frost-Giant’s Daughter” was edited and submitted by de Camp restoring Conan as the main character for Gnome Press in the 1950s. The REH manuscript and an even earlier REH version have been subsequently published.
3. “The God In The Bowl” despite being a completed story by REH was subsequently rewritten/edited more than once by Mr. de Camp for both Gnome Press and Lancer/Ace books.
4. “The Vale Of The Lost Women” the fourth completed but unpublished Conan tale did not see the light of day until then REH agent Glen Lord discovered it in the mid 1960s along with the REH fragments/synopsis as discussed next. Along with de Camp they submitted the work for publication with only very minor changes.
The five following REH fragments/synopsis .i.e. “incomplete stories” found by Glen Lord were subsequently edited and completed by de Camp and/or Lin Carter. The original fragments can be viewed, as I will allude to at the end of this post.
1. “The Hall Of The Dead” – synopsis only by REH, written as a full story.
2. “The Hand Of Nergal” – REH fragment or partly completed story, written as full story.
3. “The Snout In The Dark” _REH fragment ditto as per No. 2 but also included REH synopsis
4. “The Drums Of Tombalku” – ditto as No. 3
5. “Wolves Beyond The Border” – ditto as No. 3.
*WARNING*
The four following tales originally submitted by de Camp were not actually written as Conan tales by REH. They were in fact historical or oriental tales but Mr. De Camp apparently rewrote the stories and changed the names to include Conan to publish them with Gnome Press as Conan tales.
1. “The Blood Stained God” (REH title The Trail Of The Blood Stained God)
2. “Hawks Over Shem” (REH title Hawks Over Egypt)
3. “The Road Of The Eagles” (unchanged)
4. “The Flame Knife” (REH title The Three-Bladed Doom)
Of course Mr. De Camp is not the only one to have written Conan tales (incl. Robert Jordan) but these particular ones do come from original REH tales.
Anyways, the original Weird Tales stories and other so called “fragmentary” Conan stories (i.e. incomplete), synopsises etc.. in their original format have been recently published (2002-2004) in a 3 volume hardback version by Wandering Stars Publishers. However trade paperback editions are now coming out in 3 volumes by Ballantine Books. If you want to read the stories as originally written in their “purest” form by REH then this is where you should look!!
You’ll also be happy to hear that just recently as in April!!! many of REHs works from the pulp magazines like Weird Tales and other mags of the time including unpublished stuff and of course his “western” stories albeit with weird or supernatural undertones at times have been published in collections available from University Of Nebraska Press under their Bison label.).
*NB Not sure if you can get these in the shops or only online via this website?
Just click on this link and you’ll see the titles in the first few books featured.
http://www.nebraskapress.unl.edu/special/newThisMonth.jsp
Hope this proves a useful guide for you mate.
Alia
Young at Heart
Yeah!! I love her books, I read most of her Avalon books while I was pregnant with my youngest. Glad to see that she's making the cut.
Have you read this book Gollum? Have you seen the movie? Do you know the stories behind this man? I fell into his trap! Which made me love the book that much more.
Thanks for the book list.
Alia
Thanks, Gollum, very much. I'll make a print-out of your message so that I can refer to it when I'm buying books/going to the library.
Alia, this is perhaps a bit previous, since we're not officially talking about MZB yet, but I've noticed that they're bringing out omnibus editions of some of the Darkover books lately.
Alia, this is perhaps a bit previous, since we're not officially talking about MZB yet, but I've noticed that they're bringing out omnibus editions of some of the Darkover books lately.
Alia
Young at Heart
aaahhhh... I can't wait until we get to MZB!!!! I can actually talk about her without sounding mental challenged!
Alia,
Yes I've seen the Princess Bride, if you head over to the Movies section of this forum you may like to post something there.
I'll be posting 2 new items later today in the movie section
As far as MZB goes I'll be mentioning the Darkover editions when I post info on this author.
Expect a post on de Camp by tommorow and an article on HP Lovecraft later next week.
All the best.
Yes I've seen the Princess Bride, if you head over to the Movies section of this forum you may like to post something there.
I'll be posting 2 new items later today in the movie section
As far as MZB goes I'll be mentioning the Darkover editions when I post info on this author.
Expect a post on de Camp by tommorow and an article on HP Lovecraft later next week.
All the best.
Alia
Young at Heart
GOLLUM said:Alia,
Now the question of the Conan Weird Tales stories by REH (incidentally he was actually known or referred to by his friends as REH and not Robert Howard) and their history over the years is quite a saga. Actually there’s enough to write a story about that in itself and it’s a continuing sore point with REH fans to this day. All the stories by REH are short stories or novella length, the only novel being “The Hour Of The Dragon”, a Conan tale.
Anyways, I’ll try to give you the shorter version here and YES the Conan stories at least have been published more than once since his death and more recently the western tales and others but read on.
Basically the following is the original list of Conan tales as they appeared in the 1930s Weird Tales magazine including “The Hour Of The Dragon”, which was his only published novel in 1950, obviously after his death.
1. "The Phoenix on the Sword”
2. "The Scarlet Citadel"
3. "The Tower of the Elephant”
4. "Black Colossus"
5. "The Slithering Shadow"
6. "The Pool of the Black One"
7. "Rogues in the House"
8. "Shadows in the Moonlight"
9. "Queen of the Black Coast"
10. “The Devil in Iron"
11. "The People of the Black Circle" a 3 part series
12. "A Witch Shall Be Born”
13. "Teeth of Gwahlur"
14. "Beyond the Black River" 2-part series
15. "The Man-Eaters of Zamboula"
16. The Hour of the Dragon (novel) - 5-part series
17. "Red Nails" - 3-part series
These stories were republished following varying levels of editing by L. Sprague De Camp in the main for the Lancer/Ace paperback editions and Gnomes Press hardback editions mainly in the 1950s and 60s in addition to some other unpublished stories found by Mr de Camp. Hence the controversy with REH fans and scholars. Having said that without Mr de Camp, Conan may not have seen the light of day or at least quite so quickly.
However the original Weird Tales stories and other so called “fragmentary” Conan stories (i.e. incomplete), synopsises etc.. in their original format have been recently published (2002-2004) in a 3 volume hardback version by Wandering Stars Publishers. However trade paperback editions are now coming out in 3 volumes by Ballantine Books. If you want to read the stories as originally written by REH then this is where you should look!!
OK you’ll also be happy to hear that just recently as in April!!! many of REHs works from the pulp magazines like Weird Tales and other mags of the time including unpublished stuff and of course his “western” stories albeit with weird or supernatural undertones at times have been published in collections available from University Of Nebraska Press under their Bison label. A link to this site appears below but in summary the book links you will want to check out there are as follows. I suspect the fifth title in this list is the one you’ll most want to investigate:
1. The Black Stranger and Other American Tales (Heroic fantasy and Horror stories)
2. Lord of Samarcand and Other Adventure Tales of the Old Orient (All of REHs oriental stories including some unpublished works).
3. Boxing Stories (Most of his boxing stories including 10 on Steven Costigan, his most popular character).
4. The End of the Trail (A collection of western stories with plenty of outlaws and gunmen).
5. The Riot at Bucksnort and Other Western Tales (Comic and dialect Western tales I think sort of along the lines of Paul Bunyan and Johnny Appleseed .ie. "larger than life" figures if you know what I mean)
*NB Not sure if you can get these in the shops or only online via this website?
Just click on this link and you’ll see the titles in the first few books featured.
http://www.nebraskapress.unl.edu/special/newThisMonth.jsp
P.S. I have links to other stuff by REH but I think these should be a good starting point along with the recently released Ballantine Trade pb 3 volume “original” version of Conan stories. If you get through these you’ll know more about REH than I do mate!
Ciaoo for now.
Question Gollum: Is this list of books by REH in order of how they are to be read? Or does it matter on how to read them?
I just recieved two copies of his books today in the mail, The Hour of the Dragon and The People of the Black Circle and am looking forward to reading them.
Dear Alia, (*The wonders of modern technology hey! )
As with most things REH controversy and debate surrounds the chronological order of the Conan tales in terms of the Conan timeline. I won't go into the details here but suffice to say the list I presented here is the correct order of publication in Weird Tales magazines at the time of REH and therefore a good way to read the stories as you will be able to see how the Conan character developed in REH's writings over time.
As far as accuracy or having the "original" version of REH's Conan tales being presented to you goes, the “original” or most authentic versions based on REH’s original writings have been printed by Wandering Star publications in Hardback Editions and in Trade PB by Ballantine Books. These are the ones I have in my possession.
It sounds like from the titles you’ve given me that you have the Millennium Fantasy Masterwork editions of the collected Conan tales Vol I and II??
Assuming you do they’re also pretty good editions BUT there’s, it would appear, half a dozen REH WT stories that are not alledgedly perhaps as original or authnetic as they could be albeit they come pretty close! Also the first editions of these had quite a number of typographical errors, although they’ve apparently been addressed. I’d be interested in your feedback once you’ve read them in terms of any remaining typos?
Bleow is link coutesy of “The Barbarian Keep” that will provide you with a detailed explanation of the Weird Tales stories and where the “orignal” versions may be found. Needless to say Wandering Star, Balantine and Millenium feature heavily here as they’re the best sources of “original” REH material I know of excepting I giess the orignal Weird Tales magazine publications and REH’s orginal writings.
Hope this answers your question!
http://www.barbariankeep.com/cnsources.html
Everyone!
Due to personal cicumstances, I won’t be able to post new authors on this thread for the next week or two. However, I will still maintain this thread over time and be on the forum to answer other queries when I can.
All the best…
)As with most things REH controversy and debate surrounds the chronological order of the Conan tales in terms of the Conan timeline. I won't go into the details here but suffice to say the list I presented here is the correct order of publication in Weird Tales magazines at the time of REH and therefore a good way to read the stories as you will be able to see how the Conan character developed in REH's writings over time.
As far as accuracy or having the "original" version of REH's Conan tales being presented to you goes, the “original” or most authentic versions based on REH’s original writings have been printed by Wandering Star publications in Hardback Editions and in Trade PB by Ballantine Books. These are the ones I have in my possession.
It sounds like from the titles you’ve given me that you have the Millennium Fantasy Masterwork editions of the collected Conan tales Vol I and II??
Assuming you do they’re also pretty good editions BUT there’s, it would appear, half a dozen REH WT stories that are not alledgedly perhaps as original or authnetic as they could be albeit they come pretty close! Also the first editions of these had quite a number of typographical errors, although they’ve apparently been addressed. I’d be interested in your feedback once you’ve read them in terms of any remaining typos?
Bleow is link coutesy of “The Barbarian Keep” that will provide you with a detailed explanation of the Weird Tales stories and where the “orignal” versions may be found. Needless to say Wandering Star, Balantine and Millenium feature heavily here as they’re the best sources of “original” REH material I know of excepting I giess the orignal Weird Tales magazine publications and REH’s orginal writings.
Hope this answers your question!
http://www.barbariankeep.com/cnsources.html
Everyone!
Due to personal cicumstances, I won’t be able to post new authors on this thread for the next week or two. However, I will still maintain this thread over time and be on the forum to answer other queries when I can.
All the best…
Alia
Young at Heart
Sorry to hear about that but... other side I'm happy too. I can catch up with the reading list, including the books I mentioned above.
Look forward to that new author when you get to it.
Actually, I think that last question you answered was Alia's, Gollum.
In any case, sorry to hear you're going to be too swamped to do any more of the features for a while, but it's easy to see how time consuming they must be.
In any case, sorry to hear you're going to be too swamped to do any more of the features for a while, but it's easy to see how time consuming they must be.
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