6.13: Dead Things

[obcooke]

Episode 6.13 Dead Things

Buffy is plagued with guilt when she feels responsible for an innocent woman's death.

 

[Tabitha]

I have only watched a few of the season six episodes, and am struck by how the tone has changed. I had heard that the move to UPN would create more leeway with the sex n violence, but I keep getting surprised by it.

The scene with Buffy and Spike on the balcony was almost pornographic. Ok, ok I am exaggerating, I am not a prude, but there has certainly been a huge departure in tone.
I am not complaining either, there will obviously be a greater breadth of subjects that can now be tackled. I found that this episode made me quite uncomfortable in the mind-control slave girl scenes. Those three "super-villains" are kinda goofy, but can only be described as sinister in this storyline.
What do people think about Jonathan? He seemed to have a guilty conscience, but was perfectly happy to pin that girl's death on Buffy. His attitude just didn't seem coherent at all.

I think this episode overall made me realise that I can't tune into Buffy for a fun and clever story anymore. I might still get a clever story, but I certainly don't think you could characterise it as fun.

 

[MythingLink]

I haven't seen that many episodes of season 6 as well and I've got to say that this episode was a bit disturbing in nature.

I've grown quite fond of Spike, but the way he talked to Buffy on the balcony wasn't quite the way I have been getting to know him. He seemed almost cruel. Now granted that Spike is a vamp, the episodes I'd seen of season 6 up to this one showed him as being a rather caring person and, of course, before season 6 he was more or less comic relief.

I've got to call Direct TV because I didn't get to 'see' the ending. I heard it and it sounded intense. Actually ever since DTV started airing WB, every night at about 7:50 CT, the picture either goes screwy or disappears altogether.

Cheers,

 

[Highlander II]

ok - i'm gonna start w/ grrrrr argh! b/c stupid IE 'stopped responding' and ate my post - (thing froze on me and i had to start over - so this one may not be exactly what i had planned) -

anyway --


1st - this episode could have been called 'Buffy's just plain mean' - she beat the snot out of Spike b/c she didn't like what he had to say - truth or not; just b/c she doesn't believe him doesn't mean she's got the right to beat him senseless -- and he didn't fight back? what does that tell you? he knows he can hit her and he didn't - why?

2nd - the issues are going to 'progress' - Buffy and friends are grown up now - they're still growing, but they're adults and are facing more adult issues. the situation between Buffy and Spike is not a relationship - it's not meant to be - it's more of a tryst; there's nothing to 'support' what they have except lust (at least on Buffy's side, and probably on Spike's too b/c i'm not sure if he really loves Buffy - he says he does, but he might just be freaked out at the possibility that he might like her just a little and doesn't really know how he feels)

personally - i liked the scene on the balcony - and didn't think Spike was being mean or hars - i thought he was honest. the scene had a purpose - aside from raising the temperature on the tv - he was telling her what he could see, and probably things she could see too, but chose not too. Buffy really isn't part of that 'group' - Anya, Xander, Willow - she really wasn't meant to be - the slayer is meant to be something of a loner - the fact that she's worked her way into that group is actually quite extrordinary. however, i could see Spike telling her some of those things b/c he wants to keep her close to him; but it was still all true.

3rd - i've never liked the 3 geeks - they've always bugged me - and they bug me even more now. they have got to go -- they're just disturbing. Warren has moved from robot girlfriend to human slave - and Katrina was right - that was 'rape' - very much so -- and they need some serious help --


overall - i liked this episode (except the disturbing stuff w/ the 3 geeks), i thought it was well done - even the geek parts - partly b/c this one did something that many episodes haven't done -- use Spike properly. He was important to the storyline - instead of just the garnish. most of the time he's just the 'guy w/ the smart/snide comment on the side' - but here, he was integral - nice touch. (slightly biased, but i've always felt he wasn't properly used on the show)

Is the show getting darker? sure - it has been over the last 6 years -- (and i'm gonna go into a quick recap and probably toss out the endings to all the seasons in the next paragraph)--






Season 1 was all 'bubble gum' and sugar (almost to the point of nauseating), but it got better and they took out the Master; then in Season 2, intro Spike and Dru, and Angel loses his soul, there's the Judge and Acathla - Buffy sends Angel to hell; then Season 3 - Faith turns to the bad side and the Mayor's ascension, blowing up the school, etc.; Season 4 - the initiative comes in and builds the perfect soldier who is no prince, and magic helps get rid of the beast; then Season 5 - a hell god shows up with the goal of destroying the entire universe almost - (that's probably a slight exaggeration - but she had NO cares about anything but her own plight); Season 6 - bring Buffy back - which was dark in-and-of itself, and the issues are different (my guess is b/c UPN has to make some changes as a different network, and it could be all part of Joss' big plan - we don't know -- yet).


i'll stop there for now -

 

[Highlander II]

this is my less analytical post --

anyone else notice that Spike wasn't sporting the black nail polish? -- ya gotta look close and fast - but it's missing in each of the scenes where you can see his fingers --




okay - i lied - more analysis --

Buffy's dream - interesting angle - well done, IMO - fighting her inner demons about what she had done - however, is she fighting w/ her decision to not kill Spike earlier? reading that dream could take pages -- what did it mean? sure - surface - means that she felt guilty about 'killing' that girl (thinking she had anyway) -- but she also felt guilty about the situation w/ Spike -
further speculation??


and the scene at the end with Tara -- (btw - UPN is having problems airing things lately - last week's ep of Enterprise was a mess! and there were some slips w/ Buffy this week grrrr) -- i liked this scene too -- Buffy doesn't like what she's doing - esp if she's 'using' Spike - b/c if she's using him - she feels herself to be no better than how she thinks of him --

however - there was no solution to the 3 geeks problem - so, guess we'll be wrapping that up next week --- ahhhhh - carry-over storylines ----

 

[obcooke]

[MythingLink: ...I didn't get to 'see' the ending. I heard it and it sounded intense.]

You're lucky MythingLink, unlike many Buffy's this one had very little action in the last 10 minutes, mostly dialogue.

If you didn't see it, you probably should know that at the conclusion of the scene in the alley, where Spike is trying to prevent Buffy from going into the police station, that Buffy pummels Spike without him fighting back.

She sits on his chest and punches him again and again in the face, but he doesn't resist. He had been in vampre face for the fight, but during the beating he changes back to normal. By the time Buffy is done, his right eye is already swollen shut. He is too dazed and injured to prevent her from going into the station.

The only other visual of note is at the very end. Tara sits on the couch and talks to Buffy, who sits on the coffee table in front of her. By the end of the scene, Buffy has slumped to the floor and buried her sobbing face into Tara's lap. Tara strokes her hair and tries to comfort her. It's the best scene written for Tara since she started on the show.

[MythingLink: I've grown quite fond of Spike, but...He seemed almost cruel.]

Maybe some of you didn't see this episode, but this is the Season Six forum, so I won't use spoiler tags for any episodes before this one. After all, there has to be somewhere where we can talk about ALL the previous episodes.

#109. Smashed

Has everyone forgotten that the first thing Spike did, when he thought his chip had failed, was to pick out a young female victim? Sure he was hesitant and may have even seemed reluctant, but there is no doubt that he intended to kill that woman. I know that the writers had to do this in order for him to find out that his chip did still work, but even so, should the scene just be forgotten entirely?

 

[MythingLink]

Part of what I missed seeing was that scene with Spike and Buffy where she pummels him. It would change things a bit on my interpretation of Spike in this episode so thanks for letting me know that. I'll have to think on it some more.

I agree that the 3 geeks are irritating but up until now they've just been that ... a mosquito in the works. With the death of Kirsten though and the way they conspire to set the blame onto Buffy, they've turned into a little more than that. None of them are just inept geeks any longer trying to be big and bad.

I really thought it was interesting how Buffy went to Tara for help and then just hearing, mind you that final scene between her and Buffy it made me wonder something. Tara always felt left out of the group (or so I perceived) so it's kind of interesting to me that Buffy who now feels that she isn't a part of the group, opens up to her at the end.

Cheers,

 

[obcooke]

[Highlander II: ...stupid IE 'stopped responding' and ate my post]

This hasn't happened to me in a long time, but I recommend using a word processor to prepare longer posts and then cut and paste them into the forum. This has the added advantage of a spelling and grammer checker.

[Highlander II: 'Buffy's just plain mean'}

Buffy obviously has some serious problems. Nothing much has gone right for her, since her return. Her disintergration into tears at the end of this episode, IMHO, means that her last hope for something to blame her problems on has gone away.

Buffy has been sleepwalking through her life, prepared to blame everything on the "fact" that something must be wrong with her because of her return. Now she knows that she is the cause of her own problems and only she is the solution to them.

[Highlander II: it's more of a tryst; there's nothing to 'support' what they have except lust]

If they weren't already dealing with Willow's addiction, I'd say that Buffy was suffering from a sexual addiction. Filling her empty life with meanless sex - ah, those were the days - eh, I mean, She has to grow past this phase, to seek something more from a relationship.

Perhaps this season is all about addiction. Willow - magic, Buffy - sex, Anya & Xander - the illusion of a "perfect" marriage. Just a thought.


[Highlander II: i liked the scene on the balcony - and didn't think Spike was being mean or harsh]

Checking the spoiler boards I heard a lot of build up to this scene - everything from S&M to consensual rape. The real thing was quite a letdown. But it does emphasize how Buffy seems to be just passing time with sex.

[Highlander II: i've never liked the 3 geeks... and they bug me even more now.]

I'm just beginning to like them as characters. They have finally emerged from their ineffective, stereotype nerds image. They, at least Warren, now have an edge. They are dangerous, not just laughable. Andrew and Jonathan are also starting to diverge from Warren and develop their own motives. Andrew seems to be the perfect lackey and Jonathan seems to be the one that if he was called in for questioning, would be the stool pigeon.

[Highlander II: this one did something that many episodes haven't done -- use Spike properly.]

Yeah, but I still haven't figured out what the eventual plan is for him. How does he fit into Buffy's future? It's a real headscratcher.

Highlander II: ...my guess is b/c UPN has to make some changes as a different network, and it could be all part of Joss' big plan]

Well, Joss and company has said repeatedly that they were not hampered by the suits at WB. That they got to do all that they wanted to, in that phase of Buffy's story.

Even though it seems that they are making it up as they go along, a recent post from someone who claims to be Drew Greenburg, one of the show's writers, says that everything is going according to a long-range plan. Which agrees with everything I've every heard about their storylines.

[Highlander II: there was no solution to the 3 geeks problem - so, guess we'll be wrapping that up next week]

Don't be so sure, H2, there are still 9 episodes to go this season. I think that the Geeks are going to be there until the end.

 

[Highlander II]

[Highlander II: there was no solution to the 3 geeks problem - so, guess we'll be wrapping that up next week]

[Obcooke--> Don't be so sure, H2, there are still 9 episodes to go this season. I think that the Geeks are going to be there until the end.]


by this i mean that the murder part hadn't been worked out - not that the 3 geeks were gonna be gone by the end of the next episode - i'm sure they'll be around for a while -----



(and since IE bit me again - i'm gonna post this, then go finish what i was trying to write the last time -- stupid IE)

 

[Highlander II]

Obcooke:

Buffy obviously has some serious problems. Nothing much has gone right for her, since her return. Her disintergration into tears at the end of this episode, IMHO, means that her last hope for something to blame her problems on has gone away.

Buffy has been sleepwalking through her life, prepared to blame everything on the "fact" that something must be wrong with her because of her return. Now she knows that she is the cause of her own problems and only she is the solution to them.

I agree with this - she's been 'blaming' her problems on 'they brought me back wrong', and now that she's been told that's not the case, she doesn't seem to like 'who she is' or what she's doing, and she's ashamed of many of the things she's done, esp those involving Spike. b/c he's 'everything she hates' -

However, she's not entirely correct when she's punching him - she says there is *no* good in him - if this was true, he never would have let Glory beat him up to protect Dawn, he wouldn't have helped them in the fight against Glory and tried to save Dawn, and he would have hit back while Buffy was beating him in the face. A 'bad' man wouldn't tolerate beatings and torture like that w/o reciprocation.

So - I still think 'Buffy's just plain mean'


Obcooke:

If they weren't already dealing with Willow's addiction, I'd say that Buffy was suffering from a sexual addiction. Filling her empty life with meanless sex - ah, those were the days - eh, I mean, She has to grow past this phase, to seek something more from a relationship.

Perhaps this season is all about addiction. Willow - magic, Buffy - sex, Anya & Xander - the illusion of a "perfect" marriage. Just a thought.

oh boy - let's hope that they do better than what I've heard they did w/ "Wrecked" (haven't seen it just heard about it) -

and I've heard some things along these lines

Spoiler

the Buffy - Spike thing isn't supposed to be serious - it's just supposed to be 'sex'

Obcooke:

Checking the spoiler boards I heard a lot of build up to this scene - everything from S&M to consensual rape. The real thing was quite a letdown. But it does emphasize how Buffy seems to be just passing time with sex.

it does that - and I thought it was done rather well, but I didn't read anything about what it 'might' be like -

that's the problem w/ spoilers -- they can take what might be a super hot/great/wonderful scene and make it a super let-down in the actual ep --- spoilers can get your hopes up ----


Obcooke:

I'm just beginning to like them as characters. They have finally emerged from their ineffective, stereotype nerds image. They, at least Warren, now have an edge. They are dangerous, not just laughable. Andrew and Jonathan are also starting to diverge from Warren and develop their own motives. Andrew seems to be the perfect lackey and Jonathan seems to be the one that if he was called in for questioning, would be the stool pigeon.

well - I still don't like them and probably never will ---

my big question is - what do they have against the slayer? In Warren's case - she helped him get rid of that robot woman - no, it didn't get his girlfriend back, but the robot stopped following him around; Jonathan - she helped him a couple times - kept him from killing himself, and that whole "Superstar" thing (which will be on later this month, I think, on FX) -- I don't remember exactly what happened in that ep, but she fixed things there -- (tho, that may be why he doesn't like her - she took away his 'perfect' life); and then Andrew - well, considering he was never actually on the show - he's just started out in a bad place--



Obcooke:

Yeah, but I still haven't figured out what the eventual plan is for him. How does he fit into Buffy's future? It's a real headscratcher.

well - yeah - it is a headscratcher - and I'm beginning to wonder if Joss really knows what he wants to do w/ Spike - b/c he hasn't really had his own 'underlying' storyline - aside from the 'stalking Buffy' bit - so, we have no idea what he's up to --- I hope we find out, b/c if there's no resolution to his story I'm not gonna be very happy ----------


Obcooke:

Well, Joss and company has said repeatedly that they were not hampered by the suits at WB. That they got to do all that they wanted to, in that phase of Buffy's story.

Even though it seems that they are making it up as they go along, a recent post from someone who claims to be Drew Greenburg, one of the show's writers, says that everything is going according to a long-range plan. Which agrees with everything I've every heard about their storylines.

this is really nice to know - that someone actually thought out the storyline before they began their show - I think The Pretender had a similar plan in mind (tho Steve and Craig never got to finish their story - the way they wanted to) -- it's nice that there was a plan and they're sticking to it --

the darkness of the season isn't really bothing me - but I'm used to shows going dark (Pretender did it, as have others) - my problem would come if the stories aren't interesting anymore --- so far, they've been moving toward - 'what happened to Buffy' - and they've answered that, and now she has a new problem - 'where do I go from here?' --

 

[Highlander II]

last bit for a little while --- had to post in pieces - didn't want IE to try to attack me again -- dunno what it's problem is lately --


just a few thoughts - kinda general - about season 6 --


One thing I'm hoping w/ this season - Buffy doesn't die. It's getting terribly cliché and very old - is there gonna be a 'happy' Buffy ending? (and I'm not necessarily meaning the end of the series - just the end of this season) --


Dawn - what's going on w/ her? Does she have any other friends? Does she want to go to any of the dances? Is there some cute upperclassman just dying to ask her to the prom?
We need to know more about this girl --- aside from the fact that she's the ex-key and Buffy's little sister - there's gotta be something in store for her - or they would have let her die at the end of season 5 - and how brave was she - she was gonna jump herself -- to save the world --- she's quite strong -----

 

[tokyogirl]

i thought this episode was great! i definitely have to agree obcooke, that the ending scene was the best written for tara yet. i think it was probably the best scene written for buffy that i've seen in a long time, too. i think if there's one thing moving to upn has done for the show it's that it's given the characters much more room for change and given the actors more freedom and that definitely comes thru in the show. i mean little things, like sarah cutting her hair. she wouldn't have been able to do that on the wb. i'm not kidding either. after keri russel cut hers, felicity ratings went down drastically and they won't let people just go and do it anymore. joshua jackson shaved his a couple of summers ago, and had to do it without them knowing or else they would have gotten upset.

as far as the 3 geeks go, i actually liked them in this one, probably for the first time. Jonathan actually had depth to his character. you got a little bit of a window into his character, and his obsession with his ex-girlfriend showed his human side. i really liked the scene where she comes out of the trance too. too often on the show they ignore the morality of what they are doing, because it becomes a relative morality. yeah they are taking innocent girls and making them their sex slaves, but they're not killing anyone. she makes a good point-what they were doing was rape. the other 2 only considered it wrong when they realized she was his ex. when she tried to tell them they were guilty of rape they were horrified. the fact that they were able to cover up a murder, and Jonathan was able to commit one shows that they actually have potential as real criminals, not just 'arch nemesis-es'

 

[Highlander II]

Warren is the geek who hit the girl --

Jonathan is the warlock - he's the one who did the thing that made Buffy think she had killed Katrina -

Andrew - he can summon demons - so he did that - those time-wonky (snagging a word from Spike here) demons -


as far as characters go - the 3 geeks had depth and that was good - but it doesn't make me like them any more - i still don't like them - they don't really have any real motivation except to be 'criminals' -- i still wanna know why they've targetted Buffy - is there a REASON?? right - she's the slayer (and how did they figure that out again? i've only seen some of the eps of season 6 - i missed a few, so i might not have seen it yet) --- so, they pick on her b/c she can kick their butts? that doesn't really make much sense ---

 

[MythingLink]

The first episode I'd seen of this season was the one where the 3 geeks (love the name ) make that invisoray and accidentally shoot Buffy with it. That might be why they decided that Buffy had to go because she took their toy away from them and make them look really foolish.

Cheers,

 

[Highlander II]

yeah - but didn't they decide to make her their arch-nemesis before she snaked their toy??

they were sitting around talking about their plan and 'get the slayer' was one of the items on the list, wasn't it??

so - there had to be something else in there ----

 

[obcooke]

[Highlander II: i still wanna know why they've targetted Buffy - is there a REASON??]

Jonathan knew her the best since he has helped and been helped by the Slayer on several ocassions. You may not have seen it, but Jonathan gave Buffy a special "Class Protector" award at the Prom on behalf of the Senior Class for helping to keep them safe (the lowest mortality rate for any Senior Class!). Not the greatest of secret identities, eh?

So, early in the season, the Legion of Dim decided that they had the smarts to take over Sunnydale and do whatever they pleased. Of course, if that's your goal, you know from the start that at some point you will have to deal with the Slayer. That's why they are out to get Buffy.

Besides, she a babe and one of the early goals in their crime spree was to make Buffy their slave.

 

[tokyogirl]

[Warren is the geek who hit the girl --]

sorry, i suck with names. but you know who i meant right? anyways, i think they kind of targeted her so they could make themselves feel powerful. I mean, they were always geeks in high school, but there's always that hope that you'll turn out to be the next bill gates and it won't matter anymore. but they were just sitting around, it's a couple of years after high school and they're still in their parents' basements. life has officially reached it's peak. unless they do something that makes them feel powerful, makes them feel like they can take control of their lives......or maybe they just got bored. who knows.

 

[obcooke]

I GET IT! I FINALLY GET IT!

I had a flash of realization today, after our earlier discussion. What Buffy, Willow and Xander/Anya are learning this season is that when you are an adult, decisions have consequences that you and you alone have to deal.

One bad decision can have a lasting effect on your life, so you had better learn to make good decisions. If you aren't prepared for your meeting with the social worker, you might lose custody of your sister. If you don't spend the time necessary bonding with your sister, you could find her resenting you.

Buffy is getting a crash course in learning just how hard ordinary life is, especially when others are depending on you. She once reflected that her mother was able to take care of two children and make it look easy. Buffy now has to learn that it requires tedious, time-consuming work to make life look easy.

And making careless decisions about how you spend your money and who you spend your time with, is a hard way to learn that lesson.

The spoiler boards said early that, when Buffy found out why Spike could hit her, it would be the worst possible news. Later they began to say, that she wasn't a demon; she wasn't a doppelganger; etc. In fact the only thing "wrong" with her was a very slight change in her composition, BUT it was the worst possible news.

At first I didn't understand, but now I do. Buffy realizes that she has worked herself into a hole and there is no quick fix. There is no magic spell to "fix" her. There are no mystical forces to blame. She must face the mess that is her life, accept the blame for it and get to work fixing it. No wonder she's crying.

 

[tokyogirl]

no no no! no real life!!!!! keep it away!

 

[Highlander II]

Ob - that was like the coolest post! and ya know what - that is TOTALLY it! Not only that - but it's exactly what Spike told Xander and Anya in "Afterlife" -- magic has consequences -

i know there's more than that - but Spike was still right -

Buffy and her friends - now that they are out of High School and into the 'real' world - they have to learn to deal w/ 'real world' stuff -- bills, jobs, love life, marriage, families, etc..... it's tough -

and, i think that Buffy might envy that about Spike - he doesn't seem to have a care in the world (ok, really cliche, but you know what i mean) -- he doesn't have to answer to anyone but himself, doesn't have anyone to take care of but himself, he doesn't have a job, doesn't need one and couldn't work one, really, anyway, and he does what he wants -- Buffy doesn't and can't have that - she has to look after Dawn, she has to protect the world, she has to find a way to pay these bills, and work a really bad job - she can't just go skipping off into the night to do as she pleases - and i think she either envys or resents Spike b/c he can - and perhaps, THAT is why she goes to see him -- w/ Spike she can 'let go' and not have to worry about the world until 'later' ---

just a thought --