GRRM - honest thoughts?

[soulsinging]

There simply isn't enough narrative road in two books to bring together all the plots and sub-plots of ASOIAF, unless Martin resorts to cheap tricks like winnowing down characters by the dozen in the next book. Even if he sticks to ten major character POVs, those character will only get 8-9 chapters each in a book. That's 80-90 pages. Let's say he shows the same ruthless winnowing in the last two books (which I doubt is even possible, to be honest). Who here thinks Dany's story can be resolved in 170 pages? Or Arya's? Or Jon's? Not gonna happen.
...
I don't think he is lazy or showing contempt for his fans. I think he understands more than anybody, and has for years, just how badly he has let himself get tangled in a story of maddening complexity. And now he dreads sitting down to the computer to untangle the mess he created himself.

Well put! I've never doubted his intentions, but I agree it seems like he's written himself into so many plot lines that he just cannot resolve them all in a mere two books. I suspect we're still a long way from the end. I also suspect it will be worth the wait if he can find a way to tame his drag... *cough* ... matic narrative structure.

In the past, I've named James Clavell's Shogun as the book that introduced me to the large scope, political, wartime, and all out intrigue genre... of which ASOIAF is by far my favorite. At this point, I don't need it to end. I'm not advocating a never ending cycle like Riftwar or Shanarra nor a continuous serial like Star Wars or Dragonlance. I'm enjoying the world... so as long as GRRM has the will, I'll wait.

Incidentally, Shogun is on my list to read this spring. I do love a good epic, but I think part of the source of my love/hate with GRRM is that in the back of my head I'm always sort of thinking of Shogun, Lonesome Dove, American Tabloid, Dune, Catch-22, Count of Monte Cristo... and I always think if they can write strong stand alones (most of those did spawn sequels of varying quality, but the strongest early works stand on their own as stories) then how come George can't seem to even get major developments like Dany to Westeros or the Others to wall (I've been waiting since the prologue of book one to see some Other-wooping badarsery!) within 5 books?

But man, when he's on, there really is almost nobody better.

 

[Boaz]

Lonesome Dove, Dune, and The Count of Monte Cristo are all large in scope... and I enjoyed them all.

 

[MWagner]

MWelcome MWagner! Thanks for the well stated opinion. You sound like you understand literary quandaries quite well... are you a writer? An editor?

Aspiring writer. I read A Game of Throne when it was first published, then came back to the rest of the series years later. I had an 'aha' moment when I saw that Martin had done what I wasn't sure was possible (or that had a market anyway): combine the gritty tone and complexity of historical fiction with the imagination of fantasy. So I've been reading the series from the POV of a writer fascinated with that marriage of genres.

I've also read everything I could track down about Martin's take on the writing process. So I find it easy to put myself in his shoes, and I can imagine what it must feel like to try to wrangle his shambling behemoth of a saga into shape.

In the past, I've named James Clavell's Shogun as the book that introduced me to the large scope, political, wartime, and all out intrigue genre... of which ASOIAF is by far my favorite. At this point, I don't need it to end. I'm not advocating a never ending cycle like Riftwar or Shanarra nor a continuous serial like Star Wars or Dragonlance. I'm enjoying the world... so as long as GRRM has the will, I'll wait.

Shogun was a real mind-blower for me as a teenager. It was a more expansive window in an exotic world than any fantasy I had read. Which is why I've always enjoyed both historical fiction and fantasy - they give me that same buzz of discovery.

However, we can sometimes have too much of a good thing. There's a strong appetite for gigantic scope in the fantasy genre. Unfortunately, that scope gives writers license to give in to their most indulgent and undisciplined tendencies. As readers, we encourage those tendencies, and then balk at the result, like someone who encourages a spouse to bake cakes and pastries every day, and then tuts in disapproval when the baker gains weight.

 

[Boaz]

MWagner, Back in 2007, Teresa Edgerton interviewed Lois McMaster Bujold for the Chrons. The thread is appropriately titled Chronicles Interview with Lois McMaster Bujold. LMB talks about trying to blend genres and some of the arising issues with reader's expectations. She also mentions dealing with SFF reader's demands for wars and intrigue with epic scope.

 

[MWagner]

Thanks Boaz.

With Martin, I don't think he so much blended two different audiences with ASOIAF, as introduced fantasy readers to an entirely new (to them) genre of historical fiction. Of course, most don't recognize it as historical fiction. And I have my doubts it has made many fantasy readers more interested in reading historical fiction. That subject probably warrants its own thread.

 

[Pedro Del Mar]

I read Shogun a couple of years ago for the first time - and I was born in the early 70's - and I thought it was one of the best books I've ever read. I've since read a few more of Clavell's other works and only Tai Pan comes close for me. If you haven't read either of those I'd highly recommend them both.

 

[Werthead]

But this does not mean that GRRM does not have any indirect interaction with fan sites like the Chronicles Network. You may have noticed posts, in this very thread, from Werthead. I do not know Wert personally nor have I ever corresponded with him other than posts in this forum, but it seems he is a very active, well known, and well respected blogger regarding fantasy and sci-fi lit, tv, and film... and thus is well connected to writers and publishers... and thus is well informed. I've inferred, from his posts over the years, that Wert has met GRRM at conventions and has corresponded with GRRM in his role as a journalist. If you'll crack open your copy of A Dance with Dragons, you might notice that GRRM thanked a great many people in helping him... Werthead is one of them. As a blogger/journalist, Wert has kept us abreast of a number of issues regarding publication dates, book signings, HBO developments, etc... This is complete conjecture, but I imagine that Wert is one person who gives GRRM feedback about fans on the web. "George, some poster named Srylanna is advocating a new Cersei Slim diet." "Hey, just thought you'd want to know that all the fans over on the Chrons all believe that Varys is the High Septon." "George, I read a rumor that you're doing Will Wheaton's Table Talk vlog for ASOIAF RPG. Care to comment?" "There's some guy claiming to have figured out the end of the story by a Grand Unified Theory of Everything revolving around the Mad King's bastards... is this true?"

Argh, no Or at least, I have met GRRM a few times, we've swapped a couple of emails and I interviewed him on-stage at EasterCon 2012. GRRM certainly doesn't have the time to discuss fan theories with anyone though and no-one would do so because of the copyright problems discussed upthread.