Does anyone know why 13 dwarves in the Hobbit?

[Teresa Edgerton]

I think that the idea of 13 being unlucky is probably much older than the New Testament, and widespread later among people who had never even heard of it. We'll probably never know why that particular number is considered unlucky, but we do know that the idea is sufficiently widespread that Tolkien must have felt his young readers would not need an explanation; it's a handy cultural shorthand for "we need one more to make the numbers right."

In fairy tales (and The Hobbit is, in so many ways, an extended fairy tale) the numbers 3, 7, and 12 frequently come up. 3 or 7 is obviously too small a number for a party that plans to take on a dragon (plus, as others have said, 7 dwarves were already taken). It has occurred to me that Tolkien may have briefly intended there to be 12 dwarves, and then thought no if they are twelve in the beginning they would be wary of adding a 13th when what is needed is a reason for them to accept Bilbo despite their various reservations about him. By adding a 13th dwarf (although that is still the magic 12 plus Thorin their leader), he would have their excuse for bringing in an outsider, and 13 is really not a more unwieldy cast of characters than 12.

 

[farntfar]

Quite apart from any mundane chatter about the number of signs of the zodiac, or the sons of Israel and such, there is a far more important correlation.

The remains of the 12 tribes of Kobol and the battlestar Galactica were initially searching for the thirteenth tribe on Earth in order to escape from the Cylons.
A sign of poor choice, if not necessarily of bad luck.

Tolkien was almost certainly aware.

 

[Matteo]

[…]
After college, I lived in Taiwan for two years. I worked for a school during my first year and for a business during the second. In both cases, my employers supplied my residences. Both were on the seventh floors of apartment buildings, but the second did not have a fourth floor. Many buildings in Chinese culture, especially hotels and hospitals, do not have a fourth floor. In Mandarin Chinese, the number four is pronounced the same as death. So they avoid speaking of living on the death floor.... This is a superstition I can understand. […]

@Boaz - interesting. I didn't know that. I hesitate to ask to ask this question, but...obviously buildings literally have a fourth floor (unless the Chinese are well ahead of the rest of the world in terms of advanced special dimension manipulation ) but do you mean that the fourth floor was simply not numbered, or that it was empty, no apartments? And the lift went from 3rd to 5th floor? Must have been an interesting couple of years; Taiwan is an intriguing country, especially considering the relationship with Mainland China.

Oh, and so Bilbo could be the 14th.

 

[Brian G Turner]

the Sumerians basic counting system was based on 12, not 10. Thus 12 was a number of completion and perfection, making 13 unbalanced and awkward.

That's an interesting point.

 

[Dave]

Literally... skimmed the entire thread waiting for this joke

Didn't want to disappoint!

 

[Boaz]

@Matteo They just don't number the fourth floor.

And I've read that some huge buildings worldwide do not have a 13th floor. In between 12 and 14 they'll have an observation deck, a grand ballroom, or restaurant... just so long as it's not called the 13th floor.

And I wonder if any of you (especially the published authors) ever used a superstition as a plot device? In a fantasy story, would a superstition need to be grounded in a real superstition or could it just be an invented superstition?

 

[HareBrain]

In a fantasy story, would a superstition need to be grounded in a real superstition or could it just be an invented superstition?

I think you'd be on dodgy ground if a made-up superstition had a significant plot effect. It could seem like a lazy author's cheat.

 

[Dave]

There is also a significant number of missing No. 13 addresses. It seems people just won't buy a house if it is number 13. Either number 13 is completely absent or else it is called 12A instead.

Regarding plot devices: I'm sure that I've read a book or watched a film where the 13th Floor of a block was meant to be absent, but it was actually the secret headquarters of an organisation, and the lift only stopped there with the use of special code.

 

[JNG01]

And that's the trouble and the joy of an author as deep and subtle as Tolkien. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, but it's hard to be sure when. The amazing thing is that the Hobbit and LOTR as as edifying and fulsome for a sixth grader reading for story as they are for a scholar diving deep into the ocean of religious, cultural, political, and mythological subtext.

 

[Boaz]

Point taken.

 

[Alex The G and T]

There is also a significant number of missing No. 13 addresses. It seems people just won't buy a house if it is number 13. Either number 13 is completely absent or else it is called 12A instead.

Regarding plot devices: I'm sure that I've read a book or watched a film where the 13th Floor of a block was meant to be absent, but it was actually the secret headquarters of an organisation, and the lift only stopped there with the use of special code.

"Being John Malkovich?"

I've got an inkling that "The Man from U.N.C.L.E" or "Get Smart" might have used that as well.

 

[Narkalui]

I'm sure there's a while host of films called 'The 13th Floor'. Didn't it start with a Twilight Zone or Outer Limits episode?

 

[paranoid marvin]

Thirteen does seem an ambitiously large number of protagonists to deal with as an author; maybe he was thinking about the potential lawsuits if he'd gone for seven?