Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker - Reviews & Discussion

Dave

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As a action film and a couple of hours spent out of real life, then I enjoyed this film, but in retrospect it did contain a lot of stupid, silly things. You have probably mentioned them all but here are two stinkers:
Did no one even hear about the thousands of people going to the unknown regions to build this absolutely massive fleet?
It was said, and I therefore believed, that the new fleet was created by the Dark Side; literally by Dark Side magic out of thin air. In retrospect, that is a rather silly idea. Firstly, where does all that force energy come from. Is there no law of energy conservation? Making a fleet of ships would require some equal amount of energy taken from elsewhere, which would be missed. Secondly, if they can create a huge new fleet by Force magic, then couldn't they have equally just made a new Death Star by magic, or replaced Alderbaran, ....or whatever? My point is that these things must have an internal consistency and have some limits.
The original trilogy and the prequels did this well (midichlorians notwithstanding, and haven't the prequels aged well?). The sequel trilogy has no
Well, I thought I was perfectly happy with the whole stupid Midichlorians thing. I was happy to put that old chestnut to bed because the Skywalker family were just an anomaly and the the Force wasn't usually 'strong in a family.' The fact that is was strong in the Skywalker family was the whole point of the first six films and why Anakin was strong the big unsolved mystery.

But now we are back to the Force being passed down genetically in families again. I don't have the energy or the will to live through having all those arguments about midichlorians over again. Couldn't George Lucas just go back and wipe all of those parts out and replace them with extra background robots and creatures?
 

ctg

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. Secondly, if they can create a huge new fleet by Force magic, then couldn't they have equally just made a new Death Star by magic, or replaced Alderbaran, ....or whatever?
To be honest, Emperor MegaProjects should have ruined galactic economy many times over. Just think how much they would cost in material and in labour costs. It makes me wonder if the chief accountant ever had words with Palpatine or are they as replaceable as the stormtroopers? Then there is the problem of acquiring all the materials, especially Kyber Crystals and delivering them in secret locations. So you wish that you could do some Force magic to make them appear, but you can't. It doesn't work.
 

Parson

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In the end it has to be said that Star Wars at every stop is a Space Fantasy ---- It is nothing like even modestly hard Science Fiction. ---- You will see hand-wavum at every turn. My own moment of "What?" was when each of the Emperor's ships had a planet killer death ray which before had taken a battle star to power.

My own thought is that the pace of the movie is/was intended -- in part -- to keep people from reflecting too deeply about the hows, whys, and wherefores; and just sit back and enjoy the ride. --- On that level the movie worked for me. I certainly appreciated the ending which made us realize that it was more than genes or Midichlorians or whatever, that changes the world. The most important thing we do is to make personal decisions that defeat the dark side in all of us.
 

Star-child

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In the end it has to be said that Star Wars at every stop is a Space Fantasy ---- It is nothing like even modestly hard Science Fiction. ---- You will see hand-wavum at every turn. My own moment of "What?" was when each of the Emperor's ships had a planet killer death ray which before had taken a battle star to power.
Which is a shame, because the technical folks that made the original films tended to do a very good job of showing a consistent physics/technology along with reasonable continuity. I think those people are why the originals had such impact - not because of the specifics of story or dialogue. The prequels were treated as a chance to craft something out of new technology, and suffered for no longer looking and feeling like the films that people fell in love with. By the time we get to Awakens the only real connection to Star Wars are some creaky back stories and a few geriatric characters.

Really, the new Star Trek movies suffer from similar sloppiness, but the bar was never as high for Trek. At least there was no motorcycle jumping in the new SW films.
 

IAmTR

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It was said, and I therefore believed, that the new fleet was created by the Dark Side; literally by Dark Side magic out of thin air. In retrospect, that is a rather silly idea. Firstly, where does all that force energy come from. Is there no law of energy conservation? Making a fleet of ships would require some equal amount of energy taken from elsewhere, which would be missed. Secondly, if they can create a huge new fleet by Force magic, then couldn't they have equally just made a new Death Star by magic, or replaced Alderbaran, ....or whatever? My point is that these things must have an internal consistency and have some limits.
?
Then in that case yeah you're right it brings up even more questions. Like the ones you said. Or if they can build them out of sheer force power then why is something so trivial like lifting off the ground too hard for the force and requires a radio tower? But I assumed all of those ships were manned just because the main ship had a full crew on it.
 

KGeo777

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I lost interest in Star Wars after Attack of the Clones.
The original Star Wars had great production design by Ralph McQuarrie (the star of Star Wars, you can replace anyone but him). As a remake of PRINCE VALIANT 1954 it wasn't so personally dramatic by comparison and seemed to be get hampered by the desire to be contrarian to traditional heroic assumptions (which came to bite it on the rear eventually).
In the corporate-driven era, this kind of film is near impossible to make well. Too many cooks, too many messages to convey which detract from story essentials.
 

Culhwch

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It's a shame that there are a lot of holes to pick at in this movie, because I feel a lot of them could have easily been fixed through the course of the movie. Through the course of the previous two movies would have been better, of course...

It was said, and I therefore believed, that the new fleet was created by the Dark Side; literally by Dark Side magic out of thin air. In retrospect, that is a rather silly idea. Firstly, where does all that force energy come from. Is there no law of energy conservation? Making a fleet of ships would require some equal amount of energy taken from elsewhere, which would be missed. Secondly, if they can create a huge new fleet by Force magic, then couldn't they have equally just made a new Death Star by magic, or replaced Alderbaran, ....or whatever? My point is that these things must have an internal consistency and have some limits.
I thought they could have somewhat easily gotten around this question by showing/indicating that since the prequel/original trilogy era the Emperor had built up an enormous secret cloning facility on Exegol where he was using the Dark Side to churn out loyalists, who could then have been used to build the fleet, man the ships, and fill up all that glorious stadium seating. The resources themselves is another matter, but you could have other planets in the system that are just shells, mined of all useful minerals until they were hollow.

In the end it has to be said that Star Wars at every stop is a Space Fantasy ---- It is nothing like even modestly hard Science Fiction. ---- You will see hand-wavum at every turn. My own moment of "What?" was when each of the Emperor's ships had a planet killer death ray which before had taken a battle star to power.
Again, this could have been fixed by just making them less powerful -- they don't destroy the entire planet, but could level entire cities with one blast. A half-dozen jump into orbit above your planet, and it's still going to be a baaaaad day.
 

The Big Peat

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So I read this on an article on Abrams and I feel like it captured a lot of my sentiments about Rise of Skywalker:

"And when you look the work of Abrams? I just don’t see those questions being asked. Even from evidence, he said that when making The Force Awakens they would look at every moment and ask, “is it delightful?” As if his sole intention was to shovel scoop after scoop of ice cream upon us."

For me, it worked. The movie was pretty much all ice cream.

But I can see how people who wanted more than ice cream, or who didn't get that sense of delight from watching it, weren't happy.
 

Star-child

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So I read this on an article on Abrams and I feel like it captured a lot of my sentiments about Rise of Skywalker:

"And when you look the work of Abrams? I just don’t see those questions being asked. Even from evidence, he said that when making The Force Awakens they would look at every moment and ask, “is it delightful?” As if his sole intention was to shovel scoop after scoop of ice cream upon us."

For me, it worked. The movie was pretty much all ice cream.

But I can see how people who wanted more than ice cream, or who didn't get that sense of delight from watching it, weren't happy.
SW and ESB weren't delightful. They were scary, gorey and horrifying at times. Ignoring that aspect of the originals turns sequels into Mary Sues - shallowly entertaining but lacking grit and realism.

Or - how can you make a SW film without lopping off a hand or two? (Three in the first two films.) All the sequels could use more stranglings, freezings, funeral pyres, wastewater, dead copilots, cyborgs, man eating creatures, torture devices, pre-meditated murders and mutilations.
 

thaddeus6th

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Entirely agree, Star-Child.

Compare what happened to Luke in his first two films with what happened to Rey in her first two.
 

The Big Peat

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SW and ESB weren't delightful. They were scary, gorey and horrifying at times. Ignoring that aspect of the originals turns sequels into Mary Sues - shallowly entertaining but lacking grit and realism.

Or - how can you make a SW film without lopping off a hand or two? (Three in the first two films.) All the sequels could use more stranglings, freezings, funeral pyres, wastewater, dead copilots, cyborgs, man eating creatures, torture devices, pre-meditated murders and mutilations.
Those things are delightful to movie goers.
 

Phyrebrat

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Am I the only one here who heard the dyad story?! What’s all this nonsense about Rey and Ben being super strong? Do you understand what was introduced in this film?

pH
 

Vince W

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Those are iconic scenes. Not to mention Luke losing a hand. The Star Wars universe used to be dangerous. The Disney Star Wars universe has all the danger of a tepid bath.
 

BAYLOR

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The Abrams films have their shortcoming no question but, they were decent films and far better then the prequels Lucas did. . Rogue One was quite good, and Solo wasn't as bad as they made it out to be. and likely would have fared better had it been released later in the year .
 

tegeus-Cromis

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FWIW, I thought it was the best of the trilogy. But that's not saying much.

Highlights:

-- the crossover with the Pixar lamp. Disney synergy at its finest!
-- Poe is dating a Power Ranger!
-- Princess Leia Mad Libs, i.e. let's write random dialogue around whatever scraps of Carrie Fisher speaking we could find.
 

Parson

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Am I the only one here who heard the dyad story?! What’s all this nonsense about Rey and Ben being super strong? Do you understand what was introduced in this film?
No, I picked that up as well.
 

IAmTR

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Am I the only one here who heard the dyad story?! What’s all this nonsense about Rey and Ben being super strong? Do you understand what was introduced in this film?

pH
Rey's incredible strength has always been by biggest problem with the trilogy. In the first movie she is able to use Jedi mind tricks the same day she even learns she has force sensitivity. She also beats Kylo in lightsaber duel the first time she ever wields a lightsaber. In the second movie, which takes place right after the previous film so no time for extra off screen training, she ends the film strong enough to lift a ton of boulders out of the way with the force. Now in the last film she's had a little time to train (a year I've been told) to train and has Leia and some books to help her. So I'm willing to believe she's learned some things and gotten stronger. But I'm not willing to believe she mastered force healing in that year, even if one of those books was "The Complete Idiots Guide to Force Healing".

On the plus side, she did finally lose at something. She lost to Kylo on the Death Star wreckage before Leia saved her.
 
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