Why Are so Many of the Great Writers in Science Fiction, Fantasy and Horror Falling into Neglect ?

[JJewel]

@Karn's Return
I suspect it is more complex than that, every age has a feel to it.

1960s had Hope and expectation.
1970s had a realisation and insight of the truth of things (a come down from the high basically).
1980s was still grim and was all about greed and so it goes on.

Books from each era capture much of the poison of that age and unless you lived through it the feelings are more difficult to grasp.

Once more it is far more obvious in music that literature but the same rule applies I suspect.

Also it should be mentioned that the views within this forum is seriously distant from mainstream thought. Because we are a specialist site in the same way that the Model T Hodtrods owners club views will be askew of the mainstream. This is a specialist forum as is very clear from the discussions and the types of books considered.

That makes us a defenders of the past more than forward thinkers mayhaps?

 

[Karn's Return]

The point is, though, Jewel, is that it's just getting worse and worse, and will continue to do so.


Music has just fallen already to idiocy, literature is falling to hopelessness. And both will be strangled, paralyzed, and ultimately consumed by each respective, much like a spider to a fly. I'd honestly be surprised if literature can even survive this century. Music will always be around in some form...but humans aren't getting any smarter, any more creative, any more imaginative, and definitely not any more lighthearted. It's like the Harvey Dangerfield song Flagpole Sitta.

Been around the world and found that only stupid people are breeding, the cretins cloning and feeding, and I don't even own a TV.

I don't watch broadcast television anymore-especially not ANY of the MSM news networks-but it's clear as day that that is exactly what is happening.

 

[JJewel]

The world is filled with individuals, okay the same base program but within that their are many types and passions.

Sometimes styles fall out of passion but they do come back with time, albeit, often more talked about that read.

My daughter used to wear Ramones T-shirts and had never heard a Ramones song.

It is a sign of this time, not all time.

 

[JJewel]

As for MSN etc, we all choose the channels we like.

I watch History / Art / Sport channels only, on the rare occasion I get access to the TV.

But each member of the family has their own choice channels.

 

[Karn's Return]

The point being, though, Jewel, I think Tom Petty summed it up in one single line in Learning to Fly:

Well the good old days, may not return.


Except that you replace "may" with "will". :| That's point I'm making. Pratchett: Dead. Anthony: Getting up there. Eddings: Dead. Douglass: Dead. Norton: Dead.


Need I go on? Who do we have replacing them? Idiots like Rowling and depressing, greedy old fools like Martin.

 

[Robert Zwilling]

There are two basic choices, one is to look at what is pushed at you, and the other is to search for yourself, which can take a lot of time and effort. The featured artists of all fields represent a certain set of values which are based on money because digitalization has enabled lots of things to become instantly monetized. The arts are following the trends that business has been pushing, that is, the bigger the better. The business model is not set in stone, perhaps too big to fail will fail when conditions change and that will cause other fields to also collapse, bringing everything back to a localized, personalized nature. Maybe it goes back and forth.

If one searches through all the material that is not being pushed, and there is tons of it, both old and new, you can sometimes find things that that you like, and without digitalization I know there are works I would never have found.

As far as reading dated works, I never looked at it this way, but I like to read about the past and I like to read history, so maybe liking older works is related to liking history. Broadly speaking, older material is probably more story related, newer material is probably character related. If one likes history, perhaps the story alone is enough to make for an enjoyable story. There is a growing trend to personalize history, would this mean that rewrites are going to become more popular, the same way movies get remade.

 

[Randy M.]

It is the same with music, at one point their were many crooners like Sinatra etc, now how many can any of us name?

Bing Crosby (pre-dates Sinatra, was an influence on), Louis Armstrong (pre-dates Crosby by a little and probably an influence on Crosby's conversational style), Nat King Cole, Mel Torme, Dean Martin, Perry Como, Tony Bennett, Frankie Laine, Al ... Al ... Al something-or-other who played the Sinatra role in The Godfather, Billy Ecstine (sp?), Johnny Ray, Vic Damone, Steve Lawrence (later addition to roster) ... [Could probably add Paul Anka and early Bobby Darin to this group as late '50s, early '60s pop-Rock singers heavily influenced by Sinatra's stage style. Maybe early Dion, too.]

And let's not forget the women: Doris Day; Dinah Shore; Kay Starr; Julie London; Jo Stafford; Patty, Laverne & Maxine, the Andrews Sisters; Patsy Cline (for the Country inClined); Ella Fitzgerald; Sarah Vaughn; Billie Holliday; Lena Horne ...

1) No use of Internet searching to dredge these from memory.
2) Yes, I am just being a wiseguy.
3) No, I am not that old, but my parents were, plus there were lots of variety shows when I was a kid.


Randy M.

 

[JJewel]

@Randy B I see you always aim for the last word?

Beyond that, I did say that the people on here are an exception rather than the rule, you have just proven that.

 

[Randy M.]

@Randy B I see you always aim for the last word?

Not alw ... oh, damn.

Okay, maybe.

Later addition: Al Martino. -- I knew it would come to me eventually.

 

[TomMazanec]

As for music, maybe we are approaching the story Melancholy Elephants - Chapter 1
There are only so many euphonious sequences of notes of a reasonable length that you can make.

 

[BAYLOR]

The point is, though, Jewel, is that it's just getting worse and worse, and will continue to do so.


Music has just fallen already to idiocy, literature is falling to hopelessness. And both will be strangled, paralyzed, and ultimately consumed by each respective, much like a spider to a fly. I'd honestly be surprised if literature can even survive this century. Music will always be around in some form...but humans aren't getting any smarter, any more creative, any more imaginative, and definitely not any more lighthearted. It's like the Harvey Dangerfield song Flagpole Sitta.

Been around the world and found that only stupid people are breeding, the cretins cloning and feeding, and I don't even own a TV.

I don't watch broadcast television anymore-especially not ANY of the MSM news networks-but it's clear as day that that is exactly what is happening.

Have you ever read The Marching Morons by Henry Kuttner ?

 

[Randy M.]

Wasn't the "The Marching Morons" by C. M. Kornbluth?

 

[BAYLOR]

Wasn't the "The Marching Morons" by C. M. Kornbluth?

Yes it was . There's a reason I need a second cup of coffee this morning !

I even have the book The Best of C M Kornbluth on my desk and right in from to me and it has that story .

 

[K. Riehl]

Things ebb and flow. I recently had a 18 year old extolling the amazing music he had just found and was raving about it. He asked me if I had ever heard of Led Zeppelin.

The lesser known titles and authors will fade but the breakout titles will remain. I have met enough people on Facebook that have similar interests that we even started to work our way through reading lists that had Olaf Stapledon, Clark Ashton Smith, Lord Dunsany and others.

It may become even more niche but great stories always find their way back into the collective consciousness. 1984, Brave New World,and Fahrenheit 451 are as relevant today as when they were written.

If you apply Sturgeon's law, "90% of everything is crap" then each generation only passes on a small percentage of the 10% that is worth keeping.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I think it's a matter of what one would consider "neglect." Some people consider if a favorite author isn't being mentioned all the time then that author has fallen into neglect. Yet those authors remain in print, their books still sell, new editions come out, their stories are assigned for students to study, readers quietly reread their books on a regular basis, their books may have been adapted for the screen a couple of times in the last few decades, awards get named after them, etc. etc. That's not my definition of neglect. And if all we ever talk about is the same older writers over and over then when will exciting new writers ever get any attention? There are a lot of authors who write wonderful books but who never get much recognition in the first place, or who do, but only among the inner, inner circles of SFFH fandom.

I may be (well, I am) a crabbéd old crone, but sometimes I would appreciate the opportunity to talk about something really new.

 

[BAYLOR]

Things ebb and flow. I recently had a 18 year old extolling the amazing music he had just found and was raving about it. He asked me if I had ever heard of Led Zeppelin.

The lesser known titles and authors will fade but the breakout titles will remain. I have met enough people on Facebook that have similar interests that we even started to work our way through reading lists that had Olaf Stapledon, Clark Ashton Smith, Lord Dunsany and others.

It may become even more niche but great stories always find their way back into the collective consciousness. 1984, Brave New World,and Fahrenheit 451 are as relevant today as when they were written.

If you apply Sturgeon's law, "90% of everything is crap" then each generation only passes on a small percentage of the 10% that is worth keeping.

What's amazing and disconcerting is how many of todays reader don't know who any of those writers are.

 

[Rodders]

Do you think classic authors stand more chance of rediscovery by a newer generation with TV or movie adaptations? We recently had Electric Dreams based on PKD stories which seemed to be well regarded. Is Dune likely to get a surge in sales due to the release of the movie?

 

[Paul_C]

I'm sure if you looked hard enough it would be possible to find someone from 50 years ago saying the same thing, someone from 100 years ago saying the same thing and so on.

There are still great writers, artists, musicians being born every day, but the work they create may not be to our taste.

It doesn't meant they aren't great, just that tastes change.

 

[BAYLOR]

Do you think classic authors stand more chance of rediscovery by a newer generation with TV or movie adaptations? We recently had Electric Dreams based on PKD stories which seemed to be well regarded. Is Dune likely to get a surge in sales due to the release of the movie?

Given how many more and television adaptation , PDK will likely never fade away.

As for Dune, Its too much of a classic in peoples minds , even among non sconce fiction fans . Now you have a new film which if tis its box office hit, will help sales of the the Dune novels.

 

[Vince W]

even among non sconce fiction fans .

Sconce fiction is pretty niche, but it can be illuminating.