High and Low Fantasy

[Nerds_feather]

Apparently the actual way to delineate the two is:

High fantasy is defined as fantasy fiction set in an alternative, fictional ("secondary") world, rather than the real, or "primary" world. The secondary world is usually internally consistent, but its rules differ from those of the primary world. By contrast,low fantasyis characterized by being set in the primary, or "real" world, or a rational and familiar fictional world, with the inclusion of magical elements.

But I find it more interesting to contrast:

1. Fantasy that focuses on elites

and

2. Fantasy that focuses on everyday people

Thoughts?

 

[Ray McCarthy]

I think ultimately there are so many blurred boundaries it's not much more useful than Hard SF, vs SF vs Space Opera.

Shannara?
Pern?
Dune?

Elves?

I think it's more complicated than Fictional vs Real World, or Ordinary People vs Elites.

I know it when I see it

 

[Nerds_feather]

I think ultimately there are so many blurred boundaries it's not much more useful than Hard SF, vs SF vs Space Opera.

Shannara?
Pern?
Dune?

Elves?

I think it's more complicated than Fictional vs Real World, or Ordinary People vs Elites.

I know it when I see it

Of course it is--there are easily a dozen ways to categorize fantasy, and they overlap to a degree. But that wasn't my point.

I think it's interesting to compare and contrast fantasy that is centrally concerned with elites, and fantasy that is centrally concerned with common folk, and think that one of the strongest trends in fantasy since the mid-90s has been to turn attention from elites to common folk (though there's still plenty of elite-focused fantasy).

 

[Brian G Turner]

I've used the term "low fantasy" previously in discussions to delineate worlds with little that is magical or fantastical from "high fantasy", where both are main elements. However, apparently the term used is more commonly "historical fantasy".

Wouldn't Wikipedia's definition of "low fantasy" ordinarily be called contemporary or urban fantasy?

I think it's interesting to compare and contrast fantasy that is centrally concerned with elites, and fantasy that is centrally concerned with common folk, and think that one of the strongest trends in fantasy since the mid-90s has been to turn attention from elites to common folk

I've not noted this as the case in epic fantasy - commoners remain ordinarily overlooked, and where a commoner does reach great heights, it tends to be excused only because they have some hidden magical ability, noble lineage, or "destiny" thrust upon them - to justify why such an otherwise undeserving person should otherwise be able to reach those heights.

Epic fantasy, at least, is still obsessed with the rich, in the mistaken idea that only those born into political privilege ever have significance in the world. That possibly comes from an elementary reading of political history by the authors.

Epic fantasy authors who write about commoners being heroes - David Gemmell, Glen Cook, Scott Lynch, and Joe Abercrombie. I struggle to think of any relatively recent others, though.

Howard's Conan and Lieber's Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser are characters that begin as commoners, and Tolkien's Hobbit and Lord of the Rings star the Baggineses, who although arguably middle-class, are at least not justified with hidden noble lineages. I suspect that Moorcock's worlds would eshew interest in the nobility, but I'm afraid I'm not properly familiar with his writings.

Brian McClellan's Powder Mage trilogy does feature a revolution and issues of class, but as Tamas is already part of the political elite, I'm not sure whether we can really define either him or his son as "common".

 

[soulsinging]

But I find it more interesting to contrast:

1. Fantasy that focuses on elites

and

2. Fantasy that focuses on everyday people

What do you consider fantasy focusing on elites? Because I think of this and I think of LOTR as a classic high fantasy even though the main characters are minor hobbits, whereas Song of Ice and Fire focuses almost exclusively on characters from the nobility but is often pegged as low fantasy. Are you thinking of Tad Williams and the MST series, where a cook discovers he's nobility and has all kinds of powers?

 

[Ray McCarthy]

Which category is Recluse Series, L.E. Modisett Jr ?

 

[Nerds_feather]

What do you consider fantasy focusing on elites? Because I think of this and I think of LOTR as a classic high fantasy even though the main characters are minor hobbits, whereas Song of Ice and Fire focuses almost exclusively on characters from the nobility but is often pegged as low fantasy. Are you thinking of Tad Williams and the MST series, where a cook discovers he's nobility and has all kinds of powers?

Actually I was thinking about stuff like Fahfrd and the Grey Mouser, The Black Company, Best Served Cold, Throne of the Crescent Moon, etc. And I thought of the contrast after re-reading Katherine Kurtz' Deryni Rising, which is utterly focused on nobility.