What do you think Are the Best Classic Fantasy And Science Fiction Books and Stories of All Time?

[j d worthington]

I am aware that this is a really naff reply and I'll be sat on by a significant percentage of forum members, but for me the gold standard is still Tolkein. He wrote not just wonderful epic high fantasy, but his whole world had such depth and breadth, languages, customs, traits of different species. There have been many since and some before who wrote brilliantly, but I still find Lord of the Rings impossible to beat.

It isn't naff at all. Or no more naff than me naming Dune as the classic sf book so many try to emulate. Big world, good future concepts, cracking characters. I think he's the sf classic of the similar ilk.

For me, it would have to be books which stay with me after I read them. For sf I'd mention Rendezvous with Rama, Flowers for Algernon and some of Card's work (Songmaster is probably my favourite, but I also like Ender's Game.)

For fantasy - I don't read huge amounts - Name of the Wind is up there for me. Also some of the magical realism stuff really does it for me and are classic in tone - of those, I might go for Allende's House of the Spirits.

I'd agree with Springs to some degree, though I might perhaps phrase it differently. Characterization can be very important, but there are great works out there where characterization is all but non-existent. Ditto with plot, world-building, etc., etc., etc. There are a variety of criteria on which to base the opinion that a work is "great", "best", and so on but, essentially, it has to excel in some given area or set of areas. I also think a large part of what makes such works so memorable is that there is an air of conviction from the writer -- that is, they bring to it their inner convictions and that which is important to them and address these in an honest fashion using fiction with all its poetic, metaphoric possibilities.

So, yes, I'd say that Tolkien is high on that list; but so is Moorcock in a fairly large proportion of his work; so are Lovecraft, and Poe, and Cabell, and Cherryh, and Tepper, and Norton, and the team of Kuttner and Moore, and on, and on, and on. These works resonate (as does David Lindsay's A Voyage to Arcturus, despite its numerous flaws) with a spectrum of readers and find an important place in their lives. None of them is likely to appeal to everyone, but what they offer is so powerful in one way or another that, whatever flaws there may be, these end up being relatively minor in comparison to the works' strengths.

As for specific things I'd put on this list... that a HUGE list, in my case, given that I've been reading sff since I was about 5 (a couple of years past a half-century come this March), and I've found a tremendous number of works which have had that effect on me. Still, a very brief (comparatively speaking) list would include:

Not only The Lord of the Rings, but also The Silmarillion, The Hobbit, and various other works by Tolkien
A large portion of the stories (and even some of the poetry) of H. P. Lovecraft, particularly The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath, At the Mountains of Madness, "The Colour Out of Space", "The Quest of Iranon", "The Shadow Out of Time", The Case of Charles Dexter Ward, "The Silver Key", "The Shadow Over Innsmouth", the Fungi from Yuggoth sonnet sequence, etc.

Quite a few of the tales of Robert E. Howard -- far too many to enumerate here

No few of the tales (and a large amount of the verse) of Clark Ashton Smith, particularly his Zothique series and some of the non-series pieces, such as "The Uncharted Isle", "A Night in Malnéant", "The Chain of Aforgomon", "The Treader of the Dust", and such works as "The Double Shadow" and "The Last Incantation" or "The Last Hieroglyph", etc.

E. R. Eddison's The Worm Ouroboros and Zimiamvia trilogy

A number of works by Poe and Hawthorne

Dune and Dune Messiah, by Frank Herbert

A fairly good portion of works by Robert A. Heinlein

Cabell's Biography of the Life of Manuel

Moorcock's Behold the Man, Breakfast in the Ruins, The Revenge of the Rose, The Sleeping Sorceress, The Cornelius tetralogy, Blood, Mother London, and at least a score of other works

The bulk of the work of J. G. Ballard

At least a good dozen novels and a host of the short works of Isaac Asimov (I think particularly I'd pick "The Ugly Little Boy", "Eyes Do More than See")

A good half of the work of Ray Bradbury (I'm partial to his earlier work, but even in his later works are a number of gems)

Joanna Russ' The Female Man and the collection The Zanzibar Cat

Ursula K. Le Guin's The Left Hand of Darkness, The Lathe of Heaven, the Earthsea trilogy, The Dispossessed, and a number of others

James Tiptree, Jr.'s Her Smoke Rose Up Forever

Kate Wilhelm's Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang

Quite a few of Andre Norton's juveniles, as well as the first several Witch World books (both novels and collections)

More of Harlan Ellison's works than I could possibly list

the Kuttner/Moore stories, particularly "Vintage Season", "The Children's Hour", "Mimsey Were the Borogoves"

Keyes' "Flowers for Algernon"

A Canticle for Leibowitz, by Walter M. Miller, Jr.

the list goes on... and on... and on.....

 

[psikeyhackr]

Conan Hour of the Dragon by Robert E Howard . His only full length Conan novel . It's got a bit of everything conspiracy , murder, war and a really cool Sorcerer Villain Xaltoten.

And now it's free:

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/42243/42243-h/42243-h.htm

psik

 

[psikeyhackr]

The City And The Stars by Arthur C. Clarke (or its earlier incarnation, Against The Fall Of Night, take your pick). Published in 1956, it's one of a very few books in the SF genre which I might call "timeless". Takes the idea of what humanity might look like in the distant future and imbues it with a sense of wonder.

Yeah, definitely belongs on the list.

psik

 

[Randy M.]

I'd agree with Springs to some degree, though I might perhaps phrase it differently. Characterization can be very important, but there are great works out there where characterization is all but non-existent. Ditto with plot, world-building, etc., etc., etc. There are a variety of criteria on which to base the opinion that a work is "great", "best", and so on but, essentially, it has to excel in some given area or set of areas. I also think a large part of what makes such works so memorable is that there is an air of conviction from the writer -- that is, they bring to it their inner convictions and that which is important to them and address these in an honest fashion using fiction with all its poetic, metaphoric possibilities.

So, yes, I'd say that Tolkien is high on that list; but so is Moorcock in a fairly large proportion of his work; so are Lovecraft, and Poe, and Cabell, and Cherryh, and Tepper, and Norton, and the team of Kuttner and Moore, and on, and on, and on. These works resonate (as does David Lindsay's A Voyage to Arcturus, despite its numerous flaws) with a spectrum of readers and find an important place in their lives. None of them is likely to appeal to everyone, but what they offer is so powerful in one way or another that, whatever flaws there may be, these end up being relatively minor in comparison to the works' strengths.
[...]

Thanks, J. D. I think that neatly explains my affinity to the Finney. Probably also to Jonathan Carroll's The Land of Laughs, which I consider one of the finest fantasies I've ever read. There is a conviction in the writing that comes across, whatever the other good or bad qualities of the work.


Randy M.

 

[althea]

I agree with most of what you have said,j.d.worthington.I tried to read A voyage to Arcturus,but had to give it up.
It seemed like an allegory of the various character traits of mankind.It reminded me of Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan.
Some writers can make you smell the air,feel the heat or cold,taste what the characters taste,feel the pain or elation of the characters
with their writing.
Personally,I feel even a brilliant plot needs good characterisation.If you feel you know the character well,you empathise with him throughout the story.

 

[j d worthington]

Thanks, J. D. I think that neatly explains my affinity to the Finney. Probably also to Jonathan Carroll's The Land of Laughs, which I consider one of the finest fantasies I've ever read. There is a conviction in the writing that comes across, whatever the other good or bad qualities of the work.

There's more than a little of an affinity, it seems to me, between these two works (though, to the best of my knowledge, nothing else by either writer resembles even faintly anything by the other). It has been a very long time since I read The Land of Laughs, but it is certainly an impressive achievement, as is The Circus of Dr. Lao... which Lin Carter once called "that rare little gem of a book". (I may not care much for Carter as a writer himself, but his judgment of many other works of fantasy is often spot on.)

I agree with most of what you have said,j.d.worthington.I tried to read A voyage to Arcturus,but had to give it up.
It seemed like an allegory of the various character traits of mankind.It reminded me of Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan.
Some writers can make you smell the air,feel the heat or cold,taste what the characters taste,feel the pain or elation of the characters
with their writing.
Personally,I feel even a brilliant plot needs good characterisation.If you feel you know the character well,you empathise with him throughout the story.

Again, a nice comparison, I think, as the influence of Bunyan's work looms large over such things. (Just as it does over much of the work of Michael Moorcock, by his own admission.) Yes, A Voyage to Arcturus is a difficult book, and by no means to everyone's taste. I wouldn't go as far as Colin Wilson in his description of Lindsay as a "terrible writer", but I would say that his work is often very flawed. (I have still to read Devil's Tor, which I really would like to get my hands on....) But I find there is nonetheless a compelling vision there which holds my interest and often evokes strong emotional responses... and the work has had considerable impact over the decades on both readers and fellow writers, making it, I think, worthy of the classification "classic", even if not "best".

 

[althea]

There's more than a little of an affinity, it seems to me, between these two works (though, to the best of my knowledge, nothing else by either writer resembles even faintly anything by the other). It has been a very long time since I read The Land of Laughs, but it is certainly an impressive achievement, as is The Circus of Dr. Lao... which Lin Carter once called "that rare little gem of a book". (I may not care much for Carter as a writer himself, but his judgment of many other works of fantasy is often spot on.)



Again, a nice comparison, I think, as the influence of Bunyan's work looms large over such things. (Just as it does over much of the work of Michael Moorcock, by his own admission.) Yes, A Voyage to Arcturus is a difficult book, and by no means to everyone's taste. I wouldn't go as far as Colin Wilson in his description of Lindsay as a "terrible writer", but I would say that his work is often very flawed. (I have still to read Devil's Tor, which I really would like to get my hands on....) But I find there is nonetheless a compelling vision there which holds my interest and often evokes strong emotional responses... and the work has had considerable impact over the decades on both readers and fellow writers, making it, I think, worthy of the classification "classic", even if not "best".

I agree with you and would also not go as far as calling Lindsay a "terrible writer",just lacking in some areas.David Lindsay went to the same school as a friend of mine and I felt obliged to try to read it,as he recommended it to me.

 

[BAYLOR]

The Demolished Man by Alfred Bester first recipient of the Hugo award.

 

[althea]

I'll look out for that book.
I love learning about books and authors I have not come across before.

 

[Tom Hering]

The Demolished Man by Alfred Bester first recipient of the Hugo award.

Your choice agrees with this list: http://classics.jameswallaceharris.com/ByRank.php Browse the rest of the site to see how its author came up with his list. (It's version 3.0 from 2002. If he were to create version 4.0 today, I would guess one of Philip K. Dick's books would top the list, as citations of his work have certainly increased dramatically in the past thirteen years.)

 

[Zendexor]

And what is it about them that makes them great or memorable? What new ground if any did they break ?

This topic covers every era.

Thoughts?

Ill start it out with The Well at the Worlds End By William Morris . A young man Ralph of Utterbol sets out on quest to find this mysterious Well and along the way has all kinds of adventures and misadventures . I know this is not the first epic fantasy ever written or even Morris's first epic. The setting story borrows heavily from prior literature. It is a world modeled on Medieval era of history. It did leave me me with the with the impression that this realm could be a real place. As for the characters, well, they are bit two dimensional, there is no stream of consciousness like we have in modern literature, so we can't really see into Ralph or the other characters . But they are believable enough to care about.

One of the best novellas: Alpha Ralpha Boulevard by Cordwainer Smith. So poignant, resonant, unforgettable. Set in the far future when the too-happy future people rediscover the past, learn to appreciate the past, and rediscover old emotions such as love and fear.

 

[althea]

I suppose Brave New World by Aldous Huxley was the first book I read that was based in the future.
It fascinated and terrorised me in equal measure.
Another book about a bleak future,that really affected me,was The Giver by Lois Lowry.
I read,on average two books a week,and only remember the books that have given me insights into life,or have deeply touched my emotions.

 

[BAYLOR]

More Then Human Theodore Sturgeon about a group of misfit kids with unusual abilities who who together become a powerful gestalt super being.

 

[Tom Hering]

It can be argued whether some of these books can be called "best," but regardless, the fantasy and science fiction titles included in the list of all-time best selling books are ...

More than 100 million copies:
150 million / Tolkien, Lord of the Rings
140 / Saint-Exupery, The Little Prince
107 / Rowling, Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone
100 / Tolkien, The Hobbit
100 / Haggard, She

Between 50 and 100 million copies:
85 million / Lewis, The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe
65 / Rowling, Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince
60 / Rowling, Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets
55 / Rowling, Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban
55 / Rowling, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire
55 / Rowling, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
50 / Rowling, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows
50 / Adams, Watership Down

Between 20 and 30 million copies:
25 million / Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
23 / Collins, The Hunger Games
20 / Herbert, Dune

Between 10 and 20 million copies:
14 million / Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
10 / L'Engle, A Wrinkle in Time

Book series, total copies of all titles:
450 million / Rowling, Harry Potter
160 / various authors, Star Wars
120 / Lewis, The Chronicles of Narnia
55 / Pratchett, Discworld
50 / Collins, The Hunger Games
44 / Jordan & Sanderson, The Wheel of Time
33 / Paolini, The Inheritance Cycle
30 / King, The Dark Tower
25 / Goodkind, The Sword of Truth
24 / Clare, The Shadowhunter Chronicles
24 / Martin, A Song of Ice and Fire
21 / Brooks, Shannara
20 / Erikson, Malazan Book of the Fallen
20 / various authors, Dragonlance
20 / Asimov, The Foundation Trilogy
20 / Roth, Divergent Trilogy
16 / Adams & Colfer, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
15 / Feist, The Riftwar Cycle
15 / Pullman, His Dark Materials

(Source: Wikipedia. Lord of the Rings is not included in the series list because it was written as a single book.)

Well, after all that, my favorite classic fantasy or science fiction book - my favorite novel of any kind - is Watership Down, which I first read two years ago. Lewis' Space Trilogy and Swift's Gullivers Travels (unexpurgated) are right up there, having both held first place with me at one time or another. As far genre SF goes, some enduring favorites are: Bass, The Godwhale; Blish, A Case of Conscience; Burroughs, A Princess of Mars & At the Earth's Core; Clement, Needle; Cogswell, The Wall Around the World; Dickson, Wolfling; Miller, A Canticle for Leibowitz; Niven, Ringworld; Schmitz, The Witches of Karres; Shaw, Shadow of Heaven; Silverberg, Nightwings; Simak, City; Vance, The Dying Earth; Williamson, The Humanoids. Some of these I'd defend as among the best ever, while some others - like the Dickson and Shaw - are just personal, nostalgic favorites, that I read in my youth.

 

[BAYLOR]

The House on The Borderland One of the best written sic fi horror novels of all time . I think it's been done as a graphic novel. Id love to see it become a film, Done by either Del Toro or Burton.

 

[althea]

I have read The Stars My Destination.
While it was full of inventive ideas,I wasn't keen on the ending.
Still,my little detour into Alfred Bester was very interesting.
Now I'm back with Scott Lynch,Red Skies under Red Seas.
I am enjoying it immensely,with no reservations at all.
He is a very talented young writer.

 

[HanaBi]

Very much a blast from the past, but I thouroughly enjoyed the "Trauma 2020" series by Peter Beere, published during the early (Orwellian fear) 1980s. Specifically:-
Urban Prey (1984),
The Crucifixion Squad (1984)
Silent Slaughter (1985)

Great writing, littered with rich and ironic humour throughout.

 

[althea]

I have added those to my LIST,Hanabi.My LIST is getting longer every day.
I like a bit of ironic humour!

 

[BAYLOR]

Limbo 1955 by Bernard Wolfe I Think of it as 50's cyberpunk. It's a really good read.

 

[althea]

On my LIST! I just had the thought that I may have read that book in the late 50s.
I read,on average two books a week,so I have covered a lot of ground over the years.
Trouble is I don't remember them all.