Game of Thrones & Norse Mythology

[pedro_1013]

Hi,

I came across with this theory of a relation between A Song of Ice and Fire and Norse Mythology. What do you think of it?

 

[pedro_1013]

It seems i can't post the link yet.

 

[pedro_1013]

I must have 15 posts, LOL

 

[pedro_1013]

Here's the link:
http://gameofthronesandnorsemythology.blogspot.pt/2013/05/ragnarok-song-of-ice-fire.html

 

[Keebs411]

Wow. This just stirs up all my former suspicions about BR and his intentions with bran again

 

[Tywin]

Interesting theory, and I think there are obviously some similarities, especially with fire and ice and Ragnarok.

I don't buy in that this IS the story, or that it will have the same outcome. Inspired by is different than following the path of.

Also I absolutely disagree with his placement of some of the characters. Tyr/Jaime I can see, as well as Robert/Thor (think of the hammer!). Some of the others I disagree with. Loki would be Petyr Baelish if anyone, and Baldur definitely should be Eddard (read the story of Baldur if you aren't familiar with it).

Oh wait, and Bloodraven should totally be Odin. Odin: wise, one eyed, all seeing god that uses his crows as eyes/spies.

 

[Ursa major]

I haven't read all of that post yet, but there are interesting parallels.


(And I like that the blogger started on their theory when they saw a possible connection between Hodor and Hodur/Hodr.)

 

[Koopa]

@Ursa it is a rather long post.
There are some very interesting posts, the one thing i don't quite follow though is the endgame that comes with the books being a mirrot of norse mythology. I don't know much about Norse mythology but doesn't virtually everybody die, before the world is made anew. The endgame (or at least what i think is the endgame of ragnarok) is just a tad too drastic too fit for me.

 

[joshrackley]

@Ursa it is a rather long post.
There are some very interesting posts, the one thing i don't quite follow though is the endgame that comes with the books being a mirrot of norse mythology. I don't know much about Norse mythology but doesn't virtually everybody die, before the world is made anew. The endgame (or at least what i think is the endgame of ragnarok) is just a tad too drastic too fit for me.

Valar morghulis

 

[Rufio]

I read this on Westeros a while back, although it's got a few more details than I remember. Presumably it's the same person and the whole thing hasn't just been plagiarised.

Clearly there is some merit to some of it, but some of it really seems like they're stretching the material hard to fit the theory, rather than the other way around. Bloodraven communicating with the Red Priests and actually being Rhollor seems especially far fetched to me. This was still really interesting but I don't think it's unlocked all of GRRM's secrets the way the author thinks, I could have done without that, it would've been a great read anyway.

One thing it doesn't mention, the Norse creation myth has a frozen wasteland, Niflheim, in the north and a land of fire Muspelheim, the two meet, ice melts into water and this creates the world essentialy, it creates a giant, Ymir, from whom everything originates, upon his death his body becomes the world (Midgard).

The Land of Always Winter sounds like Niflheim to me, and I speculate that there is a firey equivalent in the south of the world, probably either 'The Shadow' or the continent Ulthos which we know nothing about except that it's there in the map book. Just another possible parallel... I could believe GRRM is doing his own version of Ragnarok (I certainly think things are about to get apocalyptic) but not just a kind of 1:1 retelling like this.

 

[Tywin]

The Land of Always Winter sounds like Niflheim to me, and I speculate that there is a firey equivalent in the south of the world, probably either 'The Shadow' or the continent Ulthos which we know nothing about except that it's there in the map book. Just another possible parallel... I could believe GRRM is doing his own version of Ragnarok (I certainly think things are about to get apocalyptic) but not just a kind of 1:1 retelling like this.

Muspelheim would be Valyria. Think about the way it is in the time of the books.

 

[Tywin]

I was thinking about leaving a reply on the bottom of that page, but it's already so long and his goofy graphics in the background make the page scroll so slowly that it isn't worth my time (is this 1997? when's the last time you saw a webpage run slowly?)

I think he got too wrapped up in his Ragnarok theory and is picking and choosing what he wants to notice on a lot of those character analogies. Odin as the "mad god" for instance... I think I may have read that once, but it's a tiny sidebar to a major character in Norse mythology. The author of the article ignores all else about Odin and stresses this madness thing to try tomake his theory fit.

http://www.viking-mythology.com/aesir.html

I think there are actually some incredible correlations, but Here's my take on which characters actually resemble each other:

Gods:
Odin - Aerys Targaryen [No, Odin is a one-eyed, wise, sorceror god who usescrows as his eyes and a couple of wolves to do his dirty work. I think this isobviously the three-eyed crow. If not Bloodraven, then Eddard Stark based on aCatelyn/Frigg Robb/Baldur connection]

Thor - Robert Baratheon [Absolutely. The only guy that uses a hammer andeverything]

Tyr - Jaime Lannister [That's okay I suppose, going with Jaime just becausehe's missing a hand, although I think Jaime might be better placed as Freyr.Tyr was the god of war and the sky and was the bravest of all the gods.Barristan the Bold might be a possibility for this]

Freyr - Walder Frey [No, this really should be Jaime Lannister. Read up onFreyr. Twin brother of Freya, he married a Jotun (giant) woman named Gerd whowasn't initially interested in him. Add Gerd to the list of giants below asBrienne.]

Heimdallr - Samwell Tarly [Try Davos Seaworth instead perhaps. Son of thewaves, had lots of sons, etc etc.]

Frigg - Cersei Lannister [I guess he went with this because her son was killedby mistletoe? Frigg is the wife of Odin and mother of Baldur. methinks thatCatelyn Stark is a much better candidate who also, ahem, had a son killed.]

Freyja - Margaery Tyrell [Cersei Lannister. Twin sister of Freyr "thegoddess of love, lust beauty, sorcery, fertility, gold, war and death"Uses her body to get what she wants, fights a big battle against Odin on adaily basis. Fun fact: we always focus on 'Valhalla' as the place wherewarriors go after death, actually Freya got the first pick of the dead, and herhalf went to her house 'Sessrumnir' where they partied all night just like Odin'swarriors at Valhalla.]

Idunn - Sansa Stark [hmm, married to Bragi the poet/music guy... she's the onewho kept the apples of youth and was stolen away by Loki. This only makes senseto me if Loki is Petyr Baelish (which I kinda think he is)]

Njördr - Theon Greyjoy [Tywin is a better choice for Njord, and I would thinkthat even if I hadn't already argued that Njord's twin kids, Freya and Freyrare Cersei and Jaime.]

Kvasir - Jojen Reed [I guess maybe... Kvasir was born of all the spit of thedifferent gods and he is wise and a poet. For some reason I also kind of feel like this could be Tyrion]

Baldr - Joffrey Baratheon [Absolutely not. If you know Baldur then you knowhe's not Joffrey. Robb Stark on the other hand...]

Vidarr - Tommen Baratheon [I don't know. Maybe I guess.]

Giants:
Loki - Bloodraven [Petyr Baelish. Come on, I mean the trickster god ofmischief? I guess Varys could be another option]

Fenrir - Bran Stark [Try Jon Snow, especially paired with Jormungandr]

Jormungandr - Danaerys Targaryen [Yep, sounds like her]

Hel - Melisandre [Hmmm, the queen of the dead… Daughter of Loki… This doesn’tsound like Mel. Perhaps someone in thefuture with connection to the white walkers. Or maybe Arya since she’s got the relationship with the house of blackand white]

Surtr - Jon Snow [No. StannisBaratheon. Flaming sword, ruler of fire(flaming heart stag emblem), and he will kill Freyr (Jaime Lannister… a realpossibility since Jaime’s redemption won’t count for much with Stannis)]

Hati - Arya Stark [Maybe… just going on her being a wolf here I guess. She kills someone and unleashes Fenrir (JonSnow)… I don’t think Arya’s the best fit here. Maybe one of the men of the night’s watch]

Fafnir - Tyrion Lannister [I think Tywin would be a better fit for this, orreally a lot of people other than Tyrion. If Tywin was Fafnir, then Tyrion would be Sigurd]

Garmr - Rickon Stark [The “dog” that guards Hel’s gate? Surely this is one of the Cleganes]

Hrym - Victarion Greyjoy [I could go with this one]

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

Vidarr - Tommen Baratheon [I don't know. Maybe I guess.]

In that link you posted it says Vidarr is one of the few gods who survives Ragnarok. because of this, I say it's probably not Tommen...

Who is a child who kills a wolf and is associated with shoes? as far as I can tell, Norse mythology makes NO sense

I can believe that Robert Baratheon was based on Thor easily enough though.

 

[Tywin]

Yeah, some of this is a little far fetched, but I think that the writer of that blog was right on the money that the inspiration for "A Song of Ice and Fire" could very well be Norse Mythology, and maybe also that a Ragnarok-like ending might be in store. Didn't GRRM say something along those lines anyway? That we won't see a nice shiny happy ending?

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

There are allot of interesting parallels, and Westeros does seem to be heading into something pretty apocalyptic.

GRRM said the ending would be "bittersweet".

 

[Rufio]

Muspelheim would be Valyria. Think about the way it is in the time of the books.

That's a possibility, but it doesn't quite fit what I'm thinking - first of all it's almost slap bang in the middle of the known world, rather than at the far south (though I suppose from a Westeros perspective it is), also it's a relatively recent development rather than a kind of elemental force that makes the world. But it could be, who really knows what is going on with this world?

It doesn't seem we're buying fully into this theory, but anyway I saw this from an interview with GRRM way back in 2000 which I think is germane to this theory although it's not addressing this particular subject:

In an interview a while back, you mentioned the War of the Roses as a historical starting point from which you soon went off in very different directions.

If I was going to do something with a medieval flavor, I wanted to know as much about the medieval period as I could to try to capture that with a little verisimilitude, so I read a lot of history. I’d read history anyway, because I love it. I’d read about the Wars of the Roses, the Hundred Years War, the Crusades– they were all grist for the mill, probably the Wars of the Roses and the Hundred Years War more than anything else. Some fans have taken that too far and have looked for exact parallels to the Wars of the Roses, to say this character is actually Edward IV and this character is Richard III but none of that really holds up. My characters, while they may be inspired in one facet or another, are not actual historical characters under other names. I prefer to do something other than that.