2.07: The Walking Dead - Pretty Much Dead Already

[ctg]

While the camp eats breakfast the next morning, Glenn, at Dale’s urging reveals to the survivors that Hershel’s barn is full of walkers. The group immediately goes to investigate with Shane taking the lead. Rick says he’s going to talk to Hershel about the barn and staying when Dale reveals that Hershel sees the walkers as sick people.

 

[ctg]

I, for one, cannot believe how one farm, one survival strategy can divide the group so much and with one alpha male closing the dark-side, how fragile the whole thing looks. Someone could say that there's a spark in the tinderbox and it's about the erupt in flames, but at the moment this half of the season ends, the whole thing looks as if the one door is going to close, while few other possibilities will open.

What I mean is that the whole group is standing at the edge, staring the abyss, thinking should they go on as one body or split up. And it doesn't help that Shane is going absolutely bonkers, even if he was right about Sophie. And for one, I cannot absolutely sanctify his actions, even if it dear clear the danger, which I cannot say was imminent or even present.

There's no way of saying that the farm was in danger, as we saw in the last bits its natural defences, that seem to trap the walkers in its many bogs. It is as Rick says, a perfect hideout, a perfect safe-haven to stay out from the imminent dangers. But who is to say that in the future, they could not see a herd rolling down its dusty roads to clean the farm from its living creatures.

So, as I said, the door is there for them to leave, and I cannot see after the fiasco on how they can stay in that place. Well, maybe some of you could say that if they kick Shane out, it'll turn good, but I really doubt that it isn't. Shane is so dangerously in verge of becoming psychopathic, without no remorse for what he has done and that could lead him to the path, where he becomes another antagonist to the group.

They cannot lock him up, they cannot shoot him and they certainly cannot let him to stay in the way he is right now. So what they can do?

Don't know. Any good guesses?

But Shane isn't the only one in the group that has been on the lime-light recently as Glenn and Maggie romantic relationship is really sparking up. However, I cannot see that Glenn is going to stay in the farm, if rest of the group zooms towards the highway as he's not really build for the farming community. He might want to stay if Maggie stay, but Maggie in the other hand, might have had her fair share with his father no matter how much she loves her.

Then there's the other relationship and I'm not talking about Andrea's interest on Shane, as I see that as purely chemical/biological things at the moment, but what I mean is Daryl's and Carol's stormy but so lovable romance. And to me, it's not soap. Not even close.

There is something in that grimy man, and weakened woman that talks to me, and I cannot really put my finger on it. Maybe it's my own relationship that is going down the same route, and I only can wish that they're going to be blessed with a healthy thing before either one of the end as walker's snatch.

Don't know how I'm going to feel about that when it happens. Don't want to think about as I had been rooting for Sophia to come back and accept a new daddy. So, maybe it's better this way.

But I haven't said about Rick and rest of the gang, as I see them trying to do their everything to keep the farm till the bitter end. The end that will send them back out there to the land of the living dead.

Yeah, more of that is coming up in few months as the next episode is called Nebraska. The one bit of land that has not been explored in the comics or even in the novel(s). But what I do know is that certain governor and the certain katana wielding woman is going to make an appearance in the close future.

What did you thought about it?

 

[FireDragon-16]

This episode was a great way to stop for a break...

Even though I have to say (as sad as it is) that I kind of saw the Sophia thing coming after they didn't find her quickly...no offense to her, but she wasn't equipped to survive for more than maybe a day or two on her own. Even though I think Daryl at least found her hiding spot when he first found the Cherokee Rose, I think by that point she was long gone. The fact that she was in the barn makes me wonder if Hershel had somehow guessed who she was and maybe that was part of why he was trying to push for them to leave because he knew they weren't going to find/what exactly they were going to find?

Shane is getting more and more unstable. I think he's haunted by what he did to Otis and that's part of why he's pushing for them to leave--he needs to get away from the memories if he can. I was worried when he was alone with Dale, I wasn't sure what he'd do especially since I'm fairly certain that Dale knows or at least suspects that Shane hasn't been entirely honest about what happened. With the barn I think that everything he'd been feeling just came to a head and burst out of the dam he's built for his emotions and the walkers were just a way for him to vent.

Not trying to justify his actions, but I think that after that little show, Hershel may have come to his senses just a bit and may (probably not) be starting to see that walkers aren't people anymore...

 

[Connavar]

I thought the ep was good place to stop for break. Shane going bonkers is starting to become too predictable though. They are making him a danger and it will be bad writing and hard to believe if someone doesnt put him down down in the line.

Rick must start to adapt to the new world better and handle mad dogs like Shane without going bonkers like Shane.

 

[Bugg]

Must admit, I've been starting to lose interest again in the last few weeks. I've found the situation at the farm too long and drawn out, and the only characters that are interesting me at all are Daryl and Shane. Having said that, I thought the five minutes at the end of this episode were brilliantly done.

 

[JagLover]

I'm not sure Shane is going Bonkers as some put it above.

He knows what they need to do to survive in the new world they find themselves in, but is becoming frustrated by the slow pace of the others in reaching the same conclusions in many ways he is the sanest of them all.

I would be more likely to question the sanity of Rick for example leading that Zombie on a pole than Shane.

 

[FireDragon-16]

I'm not sure Shane is going Bonkers as some put it above.

He knows what they need to do to survive in the new world they find themselves in, but is becoming frustrated by the slow pace of the others in reaching the same conclusions in many ways he is the sanest of them all.

I would be more likely to question the sanity of Rick for example leading that Zombie on a pole than Shane.

Mostly I think Shane's frustrated about the whole situation with Lori and what happened with Otis but he doesn't really have any other way to let off some steam.

Rick didn't want to lead that zombie, but he's also trying to convince Hershel to let them stay and since that's Hershel way of doing things, Rick didn't want to but Hershel told him that's how it worked and Rick really wants them to be able to stay so...he did walk straight up and shoot Sophia when she walked out of the barn...

 

[Boaz]

Request: Please do not respond to my post by mentioning anything from the comic book series.

Yesterday, I realized that I am without a story for the first time since January. I started the year by playing Dragon Age II, watched the new Battlestar Galactica series, moved on to True Blood seasons one through three, watched A Game of Thrones, watched The Walking Dead season one, read A Dance With Dragons, watched True Blood season four, reread A Dance With Dragons, and just watched The Walking Dead season two.

I thought I'd post some thoughts regarding the my thoughts on AMC's The Walking Dead. Yet, I was dismayed to not see any spoiler alerts or rules regarding posting information about the comic series in this forum. I've not read the original story in comic book form and I don't want elements of the story to be spoiled by reading about them here... and yet I want to discuss, or at least share, Rick and company.

So, I am posting here in 2.07 instead of in the main discussion.

The season two finale ended the same way the first season started... with a cop forced to shoot a little girl in the head. I thought that was grim, sordid, fascinating... The series started by showing a world gone crazy and has currently reminded us that is still the case.

I don't mean crazy because of a disease. I don't mean crazy because of a struggle to survive. I mean that survival depends upon being given a choice between being eaten alive or destroying the brains of reanimated family, neighbors, and innocents. The craziest part is that Rick is teaching himself to not even see those little girl zombies as little girls while trying to always see all living humans as worth sheparding.

I like the series because it does not fit into the slasher or horror genres. It has some elements of suspense. The Lord of the Flies is not a genre, but that's how I'd classify The Walking Dead. It is a story that continually asks the question "What will you do when no one is watching?"

This starts when Duane and Morgan ambush Rick. Ultimately, Morgan lets Rick live. Glenn assists Rick in escaping the mob. Shane sleeps with Lori. Merle cuts off his hand. Ed starts eying Sophia. Felipe and Guillermo stay to care for the elderly when the doctors, police, and politicians flee. Shane gets Rick in his crosshairs, but does not pull the trigger. Shane leaves Rick at the hospital. Dr. Jenner "saves" the group. Shane accosts Lori. Jaqui and Jenner choose to die. Daryl saves T-Dog. Rick draws the walkers away from Sophia. Shane betrays Otis and leaves him to die. Glenn and Maggie have sex. Lori attempts to abort her child. Daryl pushes through injury to bring back Sophia's doll. Shane does not betray Andrea... instead he pushes her to overcome her terror... they have sex. Glenn saves Maggie when he could have fled. Shane does not murder Dale when he gets the chance.

How do we act when there are no witnesses? How do we balance honor, communal good, sanity, and self-preservation? These people have been put in many nigh impossible situations. Maybe none more so than Shane.

Shane survives. That's the bottom line. He wants to be liked. He wants to be popular. But when push comes to shove, he'll make sure he gets his. Even though he is a very competant law officer, he hates risking his own life. He has willingly gone into hairy situations, but he always keeps his escape route open.

Ultimately, Shane saved Carl's life by killing Otis. But could Shane have done it another way? What if Shane had played Leonidas at Thermopylae? He could have sacrificed himself to save Carl and Otis... or maybe Otis would have sacrificed himself if Shane had waited another ten seconds.

Dale is a surrogate father. If I remember correctly, he and his wife were childless... and he taught high school. I think that leads him to attempt to protect and guide all those younger than him. He especially tries to play father to those who are the least vocal and who seem to be the most helpless... Andrea, Glenn, T-Dog, and Carol. He knows neither Shane nor Daryl would have respected his wishes as students, so he avoids them.... until he feels he needs to protect Andrea from Shane.

What was Dale thinking confronting Shane? Dale's assessment of Shane is almost spot on, except for the fact that Shane will not take Dale's words as a warning, but as a threat. And then what was Dale thinking not pulling the trigger on Shane? In the most shocking moment of mercy on the show, Shane let Dale live. I know Merle would not have let Dale live for that... and I doubt neither Daryl nor T-Dog would have let Dale walk away from that either.

And speaking of what was Dale thinking.... What was Dale thinking when he pressured Glenn into confessing the details of the barn? Dale knew Shane would kill them immediately, if not sooner. That is why Dale quickly tried to hide the guns. Dale should not have made the barn a public issue. He and Glenn (to help ease Glenn's conscience) should have gone to Rick in private.

Man, oh man, I loved it when Andrea told him off.

Carol is broken. Like most, if not all the characters, she carries a heavy burden. Ed was an abusive husband... and a worse father. She is battling relief and guilt over Ed's death. She's struggled with despair over Sophia and guilt for putting the group in danger over looking for her. She's been replacing her loneliness over the loss of husband and daughter with thoughts of Daryl. Now what will Carol think of Rick? Would she ever entertain thoughts of revenge?

Speaking of Daryl... I have become fascinated with him. Under Merle's guidance, he was mean and spiteful. But freed from Merle's bigotry and hatred, Daryl has found his niche as an essential and respected member of the group. His skills allow him to work alone... this is good for his need for alone time... while allowing him to display intelligence and bravery. I was stunned when he saved T-Dog and when he gave that pistol to Lori... and then flabbergasted when he forgave Andrea.

Lori is a great character. I'm not saying I like her, but she's multi-leveled. Her husband was shot. Her huband was dead. She hooked up with her husband's best friend. Her husband is now alive. The best friend now wants her back. She fears for her son's safety. Her girlfriends blame her husband for Sophia's disappearance and for the unfairness of the rules of their new society. Her son gets shot. Her husband wants to charge off to save the world again. She is pregnant. She manipulates Glenn multiple times. She's not pregnant. Ooops, she's pregnant again. She confesses to her husband about his best friend. How is she not insane?!?!

Purity... loss of innocence. Sure these are obviously modeled by Carl and Sophia, but in reality all the characters have had their preconceptions and illusions violently ripped from their minds. Rick woke up to a zombiepocalypse. Andrea's own beloved sister tried to eat her. Glenn realized that in a group survival, he was the zombie bait. Otis found out the hard way that you don't have to outrun the zombies if you can just outrun your buddy. Dale continually relearns the lesson that he's not teaching high school anymore... there's no principal to put these kids back in line.

And what to say of Hershel? He opened his house and resources to the group. Was he obligated to keep them forever?

Is Hershel wrong to think the walkers can be cured? Can the disease be reversed? If it is just a disease, then aren't the walkers guilty of murder or at least attempted murder? Aren't people justified in shooting walkers?

How do people keep their sanity and their community when the world goes to hell? Might makes right may not be true, but it can keep you alive. But then what is life worth when you've become a thief? A liar? An adulterer? A murderer?

Thanks for your time.

 

[P.G.Bell]

I'm so glad this half of the season ended on such a powerful note - I'd started to despair. There are only so many weeks I can watch people walk through the woods holding the same conversation before I decide to switch off.

"Pretty Much Dead Already" was a great return to form. I won't waffle on too much here, as I've edited a series of reviews at my blog. Feel free to check them out: http://impossiblepodcasts.blogspot.com/2011/12/walking-dead-207-pretty-much-dead.html

 

[Boaz]

Thanks for your thoughts, PGB.

The other thing that the second season explained clearly was that sci-fi nerds love zombiepocalypse stories because that's when their best chances are to finally get some romance.

 

[FireDragon-16]

The other thing that the second season explained clearly was that sci-fi nerds love zombiepocalypse stories because that's when their best chances are to finally get some romance.

I did love it when Glen had his conversation with Maggie about why he told the group about the walker's in the barn and how he'd rather have her mad at him and alive than liking him and dead. Then she turned around and kissed him.

In my house we've come to the conclusion that that was all she was really waiting for--him to take charge and stand up for himself (or anything really)

 

[Boaz]

Glenn is very interesting. He's twenty-two or so... he's becoming a man, but the world ends and the only other men are either seriously experienced men of action (Shane, Rick, Daryl) or followers. Since Glenn is not an experienced leader, he defaults back to the pack and his maturity stops. For Glenn, Maggie is the spark for the fire to burn up the boy and make way for the man. Besides being the catalyst, Maggie is the one who provides immediate positive feedback. As of 2.07, she's the best thing Glenn's ever had in his life.

 

[rune]

I am not surprised that Sophia was found in the barn, it felt that she ended up that way when she wasnt found quickly
I am relieved though that this part has ended, the plot needed to move on

I did think it was sad that Rick had to put her down - what happened to the tough talking Shane (not so tough now is he). I think Shane is a weak man, he acts tough and out of control, but really he's weak.....

I think there are going to be a big fight with Rick and Shane soon, now that the pregnancy has been brought up. And why hasnt Rick mentioned to Shane yet that he knows about them two.

I cant help but wonder what Sophia's death will do to Rick and Daryl, they were the ones that believed the most she could be saved!

 

[thaddeus6th]

I like Maggie too. Hopefully she'll go with them when they leave the farm.

I didn't see the bit right at the end coming, but really liked it. Shane needs to either cool off or leave. I don't think it's too much yet, but if he stays like that for much longer it'll become unrealistic.

They also need to do something with T-dog [right name?]. So far this season I think he's cut himself and been saved by Daryl (in one episode) and done sod all since.

 

[ctg]

I am not surprised that Sophia was found in the barn, it felt that she ended up that way when she wasnt found quickly

Question is who put her there and when? It really, really bugs me. I know part of the answer, and no I'm not going to reveal it in this thread, but who and when is still bugging me. Any ideas?

 

[ctg]

They also need to do something with T-dog [right name?]. So far this season I think he's cut himself and been saved by Daryl (in one episode) and done sod all since.

You forget the well scene, but yeah, he hasn't done much even though he has quite strong support in the audience.

 

[thaddeus6th]

I think I missed the well scene. Was probably in the episode that I missed the first half of.

 

[Dave]

Glenn is very interesting. He's twenty-two or so... he's becoming a man, but the world ends and the only other men are either seriously experienced men of action (Shane, Rick, Daryl) or followers. Since Glenn is not an experienced leader, he defaults back to the pack and his maturity stops.

Not sure I'd put it that way. Maggie summed it up better a few episodes back when she said he was brave and intelligent, but he basically let himself get walked on by the others. Being 'walker-bait' down the well was the lowest point, but there were many other times when they have 'used' him. He is trying to prove himself, certainly, but he also needs to get some 'common sense' to go along with his intelligence. Otherwise he will remain their doormat.

Request: Please do not respond to my post by mentioning anything from the comic book series.

Ditto for me too.

I like the series because it does not fit into the slasher or horror genres. It has some elements of suspense. The Lord of the Flies is not a genre, but that's how I'd classify The Walking Dead. It is a story that continually asks the question "What will you do when no one is watching?"

This is also what I am looking for in this series, but I've only seen a little of it so far. I mentioned John Christopher's The Death of Grass in an earlier thread - read it! I also liked the BBC Survivors series, and much older TV series llike Threads. And the film 24 Days Later. You say this isn't a genre, but there is certainly question to explore. Just as in Lord of the Flies, you ask yourself how much do you really want to survive? What would you be willing to do to survive? How far will you go? And when you look back at yourself, will you no longer recognise yourself? When it is a question of your survival at the expense of others, you cannot compromise; you cannot get agreement. You must act quickly and decisively or you die. Darwinsim - survival of the fittest.