Sherlock (Steven Moffat BBC series)

[Interference]

Oh, and I suppose I ought to mention that I was actually coming to like this version of Moriarty. I hate to say it, but he was growing on me... like a fungus, I suppose.

I wasn't at all concerned about the casting or portrayal of our 21st Century Moriarty. Andrew Scott's consulting criminal is pretty much what I would expect today - a super-brained nerd - and the performance was creepy, which I liked. How are they gonna bring him back from the dead, is my only q?

How was the death scene done? Was Sherlock holding up M's body by the trouser belt as he spoke to Watson? There seems no doubt that the body thrown from the top of the building (if not Moriarty, did Molly help him select a suitable stand-in?) is the body that landed, and Sherlock or one of his boy's brigade knocking over and scientifically disorientating John would be no great feat to achieve - all shots of the body on the floor were POV and the superficial similarity would have been a solid identification to such and addled mind (expectation filling in the gaps).

And, yes - "I need you," he said, and only Molly could have provided the props and supporting documentation later.

I said already (and you know never to argue with me, don't you? ) that as a series, a re-envisaging of the Holmes character, it's bootless to go about expecting to see Doyle's stories echoed, parodied or even paralleled very much. I have nothing but respect and admiration for what Moffat and Gatiss have done here and only wish we could have American-length seasons of the series to look forward to in the future.

And saying that, I acknowledge that quality will falter and actors weary, but hey, that's a price I'm prepared to pay

 

[Vertigo]

Actually I think Moriarty may be dead. After all he was fully and permanently killed off in the original Reichenbach's Falls and they have been keeing the underlying structure in line with the originals. So I think that may be it for Moriarty.

 

[alchemist]

Moriarty's death is quite plausible. After (supposedly) besting Holmes, there was nothing left for him, no stimulation.

One thing I would argue with a couple of you is the body that landed. I was looking very closely at the face, surrounded by onlookers, and I wasn't convinced it was Holmes at all. Doubtless, somebody will post a still to prove me wrong.

 

[Interference]

Actually I think Moriarty may be dead. After all he was fully and permanently killed off in the original Reichenbach's Falls and they have been keeing the underlying structure in line with the originals. So I think that may be it for Moriarty.

To be fair, few people recover from a bullet through the brain

One thing I would argue with a couple of you is the body that landed. I was looking very closely at the face, surrounded by onlookers, and I wasn't convinced it was Holmes at all. Doubtless, somebody will post a still to prove me wrong.

Again, gotta say, the shots of the body were Watson POV shots - it was what he saw/thought he was seeing that we were privy to.

 

[alchemist]

To be fair, few people recover from a bullet through the brain

But was it a bullet through the brain? In real life, half his head would have been missing with nuggets of brain strewn across the roof. We just saw a pool of tomato syrup.

 

[Interference]

Depends on the trajectory, shape of the bullet and the number of lumps in the tomato syrup

But I think it'd be very naughty of them to bring him back, bandage around the bonce and a splitting headache, and still be as smart as he was.

 

[Vertigo]

One thing I would argue with a couple of you is the body that landed. I was looking very closely at the face, surrounded by onlookers, and I wasn't convinced it was Holmes at all. Doubtless, somebody will post a still to prove me wrong.

Here you go

First image is Sherlock falling - definitely not Moriarty - he didn't have time to change all the clothes and add a wig.

Second is Sherlock on the pavement. Yes there does seem to be some sort of marked area there but he's not actually in it. You can also see the rubbish van just driving away.

Third is Sherlock's face after being turned over. And I would say it is definitely him. However if you look at the falling shot and watch to its conclusion he was going down face first there should have been a lot more damage. Maybe I'm being too picky on that but I think it is Holmes and he is alive.

 

[Ursa major]

If the marking on the pavement has any relevance, it may be where a "mattress" would have been. For obvious reasons, Sherlock would not be on that bit of the pavements as that would mean that he would be in the way when "they" removed it (and put it on the lorry). Therefore, he would have rolled off it.

The pavement itself seems too wide for Sherlock to have aimed safely for the lorry, which is quite a way from the building.


And yes: use of a stuntman aside, the jumper is meant to look like Sherlock.


But what I want to know is: what could Moffat's 'Biggy', the one we've all so far missed, possibly be?

 

[purple_kathryn]

Someone pointed out on facebook about the girl screaming whenever she saw his face. Were her kidnappers wearing a mask or had Moriarty got a looky like?

 

[Vertigo]

If the marking on the pavement has any relevance, it may be where a "mattress" would have been. For obvious reasons, Sherlock would not be on that bit of the pavements as that would mean that he would be in the way when "they" removed it (and put it on the lorry). Therefore, he would have rolled off it.

The pavement itself seems too wide for Sherlock to have aimed safely for the lorry, which is quite a way from the building.


And yes: use of a stuntman aside, the jumper is meant to look like Sherlock.


But what I want to know is: what could Moffat's 'Biggy', the one we've all so far missed, possibly be?

Agreed. I don't really think the markings on the pavement had any significance. And I also agree that he would have been unlikely to have reached the rubbish truck directly; if you look at his fall, he didn't jump he just tipped over. So a crash mat removed in the rubbish truck seems like a good possibility.

Edit - actually I just took another look at the "markings" and they are actually small square paving stones. So I think getting them set up is unlikely. Just coincidence they are there I think.

 

[PTeppic]

There seems no doubt that the body thrown from the top of the building (if not Moriarty, did Molly help him select a suitable stand-in?) is the body that landed

I disagree that it was a body falling: the face looked like Sherlock (as above, stuntman not withstanding) but the arms were flailing. A body would have plummeted. We also A body land - we saw nothing of who it was at that point. We cut from (IMO) definitely Sherlock, to anonymous thump to definitely Sherlock, via some carefully manipulated positioning and distraction of Watson.

 

[Cayal]

It most definitely was Sherlock jumping from the roof. You see him do it & you see him throw the phone away and then jump (and not from Watson's perspective), besides the body is moving as it falls.

-Another point to note is that it indeed may not have been Moriaty (though I think it was). If a Sherlock mask was made (the screaming girl) then it is definitely possible a Moriaty one was made.

 

[Biggles]

Is it worth considering that the man who claimed to be Rich Brook the actor actually was Rich Brook the actor, and that we haven't seen the real Moriarty yet?
I was thinking about the first episode where the terminally ill Phil Davis character was gambling with his life each time he offered a victim a pill in return for Moriarty making his children financially secure.
Perhaps he had enough of a hold over Rich Brook to make him prepared to not only impersonate him but be willing to sacrifice his own life if it came to it?

 

[AnyaKimlin]

I'm not convinced about the Moriarty. I've just rewatched the first episode of this run and think the clues are there at the end where Mycroft says it would take Sherlock to fool him when it came to faking a death. Sherlock's sucide was also foreshadowed it was interesting. Going to watch the next two without kids around tonight.

 

[Tillane]

I wonder if we're all missing a trick here. What if what we all saw was exactly what happened? Maybe Holmes did drop off the roof, and maybe it is him we see bloodied on the street thereafter. What if the trick is not how he faked his own death, but how he survived a very real fall?

Just a thought.

 

[Ursa major]

More on the Moffat Biggy:

"There is a clue everybody's missed," he [Moffat] says tantalisingly. "So many people theorising about Sherlock's death online – and they missed it! We've worked out how Sherlock survives, and actually shot part of what really happened. It all makes sense." In this, he argues, he and co-writer Mark Gatiss have gone one better than Doyle. "He cheated outrageously. He has Watson deduce that Holmes fell off a waterfall. But there was no body. And it only means one thing in a detective show when there's no body." That the victim survived. So you set yourself the test of killing off Sherlock, putting his corpse in plain view and then bringing him back from the dead to watch his own funeral? "Yes. We had to have Holmes dying in Watson's arms – and get away with that, which we have." But how? Moffat sips his tea silently.

From: http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2012/jan/20/steven-moffat-sherlock-doctor-who.
​

 

[Interference]

That's it! And so simple, too. It's all in that innocent quote, "sips his tea silently". It can only mean one thing: The tea was drugged!

I'll be back in my box if anyone asks....

 

[Dave]

I do think that the hallucinatory Baskerville drug must have played some part. Otherwise, if what we saw happen really happened Holmes would certainly be dead or have severe injuries. On the other hand, this was on the TV recently (though the clip is from last year.):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12773427

 

[AnyaKimlin]

That's it! And so simple, too. It's all in that innocent quote, "sips his tea silently". It can only mean one thing: The tea was drugged!

I'll be back in my box if anyone asks....

In the sugar ? I think Watson is in on this.

I keep wondering about all the superior/average brain comments. Such a big deal of him apologising and pointing out John Watson's good points in the Hound of the Baskerville's.

 

[PTeppic]

There are various compounds which can allegedly cause the imbiber to appear lifeless, even down to a dramatically lowered pulse and breathing. Though I don't think we've seen it mentioned in either season so far.