Firefly Would be More Successful Today

[Vladd67]

Why he keeps trying to work with FOX, I have no idea.

Hope over experience? or
They give him money?

 

[evadatam5150]

I don't do despair overly well, and if you're aiming for an American audience I would guess despair doesn't sell overly well to anyone. I think that would be one reason why the Star Trek stories, critically no where near as well thought of as Firefly, continue to do surprisingly well. There is a core of "We are going to get it done, and we are just strong/good/smart/etc. enough to do it." --- Still essentially the prevalent American mindset. --- I never felt that with Firefly. Firefly's crew I always thought were bugs that could be crushed if they ever became too inconvenient. For the show to gain traction for me there would have to have been an influx of power from somewhere to even the sides a bit.

Perhaps that's the beauty of it.. We all see things and focus on different nuances of this or any other show.. See the despair, whether you get it or not, is a common trait that many do get.. But it wasn't the despair that attracts, but the constant struggle to pick yourself up, dust yourself off and move.. Mal was still moving, trying to put the pieces back together and protect whatever sanity he and his crew had left.. It wasn't about the despair, it was about conquering it..

Also history, our history has many instances of the meek conquering the giant.. I always felt that Mal was smarter than the Alliance in many ways and never felt that he or his crew could be caught so simply and crushed.. Sure the potential was always there but I never felt as if any of their effort was futile.. People just have different ways of seeing things..

I think one of the bigger reasons for the cancellation was that this show was thrown on one of the worst nights of the week, Friday night, the black hole of TV..

 

[Parson]

I think one of the bigger reasons for the cancellation was that this show was thrown on one of the worst nights of the week, Friday night, the black hole of TV..

I was mostly talking about why I didn't think it would be MORE successful now. I would think that it could have been more successful then, and I suppose now, if it were given a better shot. Also when I was watching it, I was astounded when 3 or 4 shows in (I don't really know) they had the show that was obviously supposed to be the kick off show. It was like they were trying to have the show fail.

 

[THX-1138]

Serenity is good but crams a whole host of ideas into one film, it would have been much betetr if Wheedon had got to draw it out over thens of hours.

I had to revive this thread just to say those are my thoughts exactly. You could tell those events were meant to have separate episodes.

 

[Rodders]

But this is always how good television SF goes. It's just never appreciated at the time.

 

[clovis-man]

I had to revive this thread just to say those are my thoughts exactly. You could tell those events were meant to have separate episodes.

I recall Whedon saying in an interview that he was just glad he got a chance to put a finish to the story. But he sure had to jam a lot of stuff into a couple of episodes to get an end to Dollhouse. Ultimately, it was not at all satisfying.

 

[Roxy]

It was the speed in which it was cancelled which always surprised me.

 

[Boaz]

I hear what the OP said regarding the times and circumstances. And I hear what people are saying about FOX cancelling an expensive show to get straight to the DVD profits.

But, I never heard of the show until some friends discussed seeing Serenity in 2005. It's about the marketing. I assume the show's advertising was limited to Fox, comic books, and Star Trek conventions. Since my TV input in 2002 was limited to ESPN, I quit reading comic books twenty years previously, and I've never been to a Trekkie convention, I missed the advertising campaign.

I've watched sports on TV for over forty years. As best I can recall, I've played in 46 seasons of organized sports... football, basketball, baseball, swimming, track, cross country, and softball. So I go looking for sports to watch on TV... I don't wait for them to leap out of ads in a magazine or a billboard. Plus, I know the seasons when each is played and when the playoffs start. I do my own research for sports entertainment.

I think it's the same for people who are into Broadway musicals, new cars, hunting, and fashion. People who are into those things don't need prompting, they're already seeking out the release schedules. People are that way about their favorite musicians and authors.

Maybe I'm just not in touch with that sector of society, but I don't know anyone who loves TV shows. I basically know that the new TV season starts in September (in the U.S.) and that I could look for something new... but it does not interest me.

When I was a kid, I longed for the new TV season so I could watch Happy Days and Charlie's Angels. (Jaclyn Smith is the most beautiful woman I've ever seen.) But I lost faith in TV's ability to tell a compelling story. Sure, The Mary Tyler Moore Show, Laugh In, The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, Cheers, and Seinfeld were funny, but I mean a real story. Law & Order was enjoyable one hour dramas, but did they really develop McCoy, Lenny, or McCoy's assistant du jour? (That reminds me that Richard Brooks was the assistant in the first two seasons and that he also portrayed Jubal Early the bounty hunter in Firefly.)

Was Firefly marketed as a comedy? If so, that's a shame.

Firefly was smart, sassy, heroic, dramatic, rebellious, and fantasically adventurous. Somehow the advertising needed to reach me.

Or do the TV execs think that all Americans will watch something all the time? Do they think that cheaper shows will sell just as much Beer/Cars/McDonalds as expensive shows? I think that they know that a high budget, intelligent, sci-fi show will not sell one more Coke than Ow! My balls!

 

[clovis-man]

Saw a brief excerpt of the Comic-Con coverage on tv this past week-end. there was an interview (of sorts) featuring Nathan Fillion. He was escorted to the podium by a group of show attendees dressed as browncoats. Castle was barely mentioned. It's obvious that his affinity for Firefly hasn't lessened even after 10 (yup, count 'em) years.

 

[Steve Jordan]

Was Firefly marketed as a comedy? If so, that's a shame.

Firefly wasn't marketed at all. That was the shame.

Some of you might be missing the connection that resonates with many Americans: Mal was the civil war leader who would have been a hero... if his side hadn't lost the war by essentially (to his mind) giving up. In American history, this story begat the rebel that never accepted the war was over, never forgave the Union, and was hell-bent on living his life whilst avoiding those damned Yankees.

It's an older story than any recent anti-government sentiment, with much deeper roots in what defines an iconic American. Which is why it often surprises me that no one pushed that point far enough with Fox executives that they'd see it.

Or... maybe they did. Firefly was a blue-collar show, and the very conservative people at Fox might have been put off by the idea of a blue-collar man sticking it to The Man.

 

[kshRox]

people would better identify with Mal's hatred for the Alliance.

The Operative: I know how you must feel about the Alliance.
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: No, you really don't . . .

 

[Dave]

Firefly wasn't marketed at all. That was the shame.

Some of you might be missing the connection that resonates with many Americans: Mal was the civil war leader who would have been a hero... if his side hadn't lost the war by essentially (to his mind) giving up. In American history, this story begat the rebel that never accepted the war was over, never forgave the Union, and was hell-bent on living his life whilst avoiding those damned Yankees.

It's an older story than any recent anti-government sentiment, with much deeper roots in what defines an iconic American. Which is why it often surprises me that no one pushed that point far enough with Fox executives that they'd see it.

Or... maybe they did. Firefly was a blue-collar show, and the very conservative people at Fox might have been put off by the idea of a blue-collar man sticking it to The Man.

Interesting! I hadn't fully appreciated that about America. Even today, the Mason-Dixon Line still lives on then, culturally speaking.

 

[Metryq]

It's an older story than any recent anti-government sentiment, with much deeper roots in what defines an iconic American.

That depends on how closely one draws the parallel with the American Civil War. To voters concerned with more than personality cults, state's rights is still a very hot topic.

 

[Parson]

Interesting! I hadn't fully appreciated that about America. Even today, the Mason-Dixon Line still lives on then, culturally speaking.

It surely does. But it would be a mistake to see it anything like Ireland vs. Northern Ireland divide. I'm a Country Western Music fan, and have been for decades (when did I get old?). I can tell you that in the 70's there were a lot of songs like "The South Is Going to Rise Again" (Charlie Daniels) "Stuck Up Here with Dixie on My Mind" (Hank Williams Jr.) -- now not so many. But there is a new vibe "Country Must Be Country Wide" (Brantley Gilbert). The divide is now much more between a rural and an urban mind set. I would also point out that the "Stars and Bars" the Confederate flag is in danger of disappearing in any official way. It is more and more seen as a symbol of slavery than of rebel thinking.

 

[clovis-man]

It surely does. But it would be a mistake to see it anything like Ireland vs. Northern Ireland divide. I'm a Country Western Music fan, and have been for decades (when did I get old?). I can tell you that in the 70's there were a lot of songs like "The South Is Going to Rise Again" (Charlie Daniels) "Stuck Up Here with Dixie on My Mind" (Hank Williams Jr.) -- now not so many. But there is a new vibe "Country Must Be Country Wide" (Brantley Gilbert). The divide is now much more between a rural and an urban mind set. I would also point out that the "Stars and Bars" the Confederate flag is in danger of disappearing in any official way. It is more and more seen as a symbol of slavery than of rebel thinking.

I'm not so sure about this, Parson. Have you read Confederates In The Attic by Tony Horwitz? A fascinating tour of the modern southern political and cultural landscape. Horwitz is a Pulitzer winner, but provides this particular narrative with more good humor than you might expect. Ahead of the title page is a Shelby Foote quote: "Southerners are strange about that war."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederates_in_the_Attic

 

[Parson]

I have not read Confederates in the Attic, hadn't even heard of it until now. I think what we are talking about is a matter of degree. I would agree that there is certainly some of the Rebel-Yank thinking out there. But I could never agree that it is as much as it was, or that it is not slowly passing away.

 

[Dave]

...there is certainly some of the Rebel-Yank thinking out there. But I could never agree that it is as much as it was, or that it is not slowly passing away.

Well, if it's been going for almost 150 years, I'd hardly say it was slowly passing away. I can see that it would be propagated by the rural/urban divide. There is similar regional teasing between regions of the UK, mostly in the spirit of fun.

After some searching I found this:
http://www.alphadictionary.com/articles/yankeetest.html

The questions there are just a regional accent test not based upon any cultural basis or any political views, but the fact that people are extremely glad to be found to be Dixie or Yank is quite telling.

And obviously I've seen Dukes of Hazard.

 

[clovis-man]

I have not read Confederates in the Attic, hadn't even heard of it until now. I think what we are talking about is a matter of degree. I would agree that there is certainly some of the Rebel-Yank thinking out there. But I could never agree that it is as much as it was, or that it is not slowly passing away.

I don't want to get much further off topic. Suffice to say that some of the thinking down south is still pretty much steeped in the "War of Northern Agression". You aren't going to see guys marching down the streets in confederate uniforms. Oh, wait. Yes you are. It's called Civil War Re-enactment.

Seriously, I highly recommend Horwitz' book. It's well written and quite informative. Most of the chapters appeared first as articles in The New Yorker magazine. Did you know that there is an organized group known as The Daughters of the Confederacy? I'm not making this up. See the link:

http://www.hqudc.org/

I'll shut up now.

 

[Parson]

Well, if it's been going for almost 150 years, I'd hardly say it was slowly passing away. I can see that it would be propagated by the rural/urban divide. There is similar regional teasing between regions of the UK, mostly in the spirit of fun.

After some searching I found this:
http://www.alphadictionary.com/articles/yankeetest.html

The questions there are just a regional accent test not based upon any cultural basis or any political views, but the fact that people are extremely glad to be found to be Dixie or Yank is quite telling.

And obviously I've seen Dukes of Hazard.

Interesting I am definitely a Yankee, only 33% southern. Clovis Man, when you mentioned I remembered such an organization. --- But I would still maintain that the feelings are slowly drifting away. You do realize that the most patriotic part of the USA is the south and midwest, based on military service.

 

[clovis-man]

Interesting I am definitely a Yankee, only 33% southern. Clovis Man, when you mentioned I remembered such an organization. --- But I would still maintain that the feelings are slowly drifting away. You do realize that the most patriotic part of the USA is the south and midwest, based on military service.

I'll pass on this area for discussion. I should have said earlier that my only real point is that feelings run deep in the hearts of those who believe they have a just cause, but were simply defeated by overwhelming odds. The browncoats of Firefly, especially Mal, personify that.