Edmund Cooper

Rodders

Rodders

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When i was younger the first writer i could say that i really got into in a big way was Edmund Cooper. No one seems to have heard of him. (There's a small group of about 8 people on Facebook.)

Anyone on the Chrons like his work?

Cloud Walker, the Overmann Culture and A Far Sunset were my favourite but there were a lot of others that were still great to read.
 
I read The Overman Culture when I was thirteen, and loved the book. I did a book report on it (on a pick your own book assignment) and got a perfect grade (my first). When my teacher asked what was different about this book from the other ones that had been assigned to us, I told him that "I liked this book", implying that I did not like all of the pap that had been assigned to us before. It is a brilliant piece of science fiction, but I won't define it, because that would be a major spoiler for the premise of the book (you find out at the end what has been going on). Is there an Edmund Cooper bibliography you could post, Rodders? The Overman Culture is the only one of his I ever read.

Also happened to have the first real sex scene I ever read. Pretty racy stuff for a kid of 13!!! (at least in those days).
 
LOL. Bibliography below. (From Wikipedia) As you can see, he was quite prolific. If you get a chance, i'd really recommend Cloud Walker.

Also, i found that many of the books focused on either individuals or a group of strangers coming together in a strange place to survive somehow or another. I wonder if Lost got any ideas from his books.

Novels

1958 The Uncertain Midnight (aka Deadly Image) Ballantine edition no known ISBN; unverified edition ISBN 0-7066-0771-6; Coronet edition 1982 ISBN 0-340-15132-3[5]

1959 Seed of Light, Ballantine edition ISBN B00005XV5L; Coronet edition 1977, ISBN 0-340-21990-4, second printing 1979[6]

1960 Wish Goes to Slumber Land[7]

1964 Transit, Faber & Faber no known ISBN; unverified edition ISBN 0-571-05724-1; Coronet edition 1973, ISBN 0-340-16464-6, second printing 1974, third impression 1981[8]; Ace edition 1978 ISBN 0-441-82206-1

1966 All Fools' Day, ISBN 0-340-00182-8[9] Coronet editions 1967, 1973, 1977, 1981 ISBN 0-340-02860-2

1967 A Far Sunset, Hodder edition no known ISBN; Coronet edition 1968, second impression 1973, third impression 1977, fourth impression 1979 ISBN 0-340-04364-4[10]

1968 Five to Twelve, Hodder edition no known ISBN; Coronet edition 1969 second impression 1974 ISBN 0-340-10904-1[11]


1969 Seahorse in the Sky, Coronet edition 1970, Third impression 1978, ISBN 0-340-12975-1

1969 The Last Continent, ISBN 0-340-15091-2

1970 Son of Kronk, ISBN 0-340-12577-2; Coronet editions 1972, 1975 as Kronk, ISBN 0-340-16217-1

1971 The Overman Culture, ISBN 0-425-03155-1; Coronet edition 1974, ISBN 0-340-17860-4

1972 Who Needs Men?, (aka Gender Genocide), Coronet edition 1974, ISBN 0-340-18614-5

1973 The Cloud Walker, Coronet edition 1975, Third impression 1980 ISBN 0-340-19478-2

1973 The Tenth Planet, Coronet editions 1976, 1979 ISBN 0-340-20512-0

1974 Prisoner of Fire, ISBN 0-340-17016-6, Coronet edition 1977, ISBN 0-340-21242-X

1974 The Slaves of Heaven, ISBN 0-340-22337-5

1978 Merry Christmas, Ms Minerva!, ISBN 0-7091-7001-7

As Martin Lester

  • 1954, Black Phoenix
As George Kinley

  • 1954 Ferry Rocket
As Broderick Quain

  • 1954 They Shall Not Die
As Richard Avery


The Expendables Series:
  • 1975 "The Expendables (1) The Deathworms of Kratos" Coronet edition, reprinted as The Deathworms of Kratos, 1979 ISBN 0-340-19472-3[12]
  • 1975 "The Expendables (2) The Rings of Tantalus Coronet edition, reprinted as The Rings of Tantalus, ISBN 0-340-19889-3[13]
  • 1975 "The Expendables (3) The War Games of Zelos" Coronet edition, reprinted as The War Games of Zelos, ISBN 0-340-19875-3[14]
  • 1976 "The Expendables (4) The Venom of Argus Coronet edition, reprinted as The Venom of Argus, ISBN 0-340-19918-0[15]
Short stories (collections)

Work adapted for the screen

  • 1957 Invisible Boy[16] from The Brain Child 1956[17]
  • 1969 The Uncertain Midnight (French)
  • 1978 Death Watch as "OBN in Arrivo", part of series: I Raconti di Fantascienza da Blassetti (Italy)"[17]
 
I read A FAR SUNSET after Richard E. Geis raved about it in SFR. Didn't care for it and never read anything by him since. Probably should try him again sometime. Any recommendations?
 
Thanks for reminding me, Rodders.
I began reading Science Fiction in the early 60s, so could read Edmund Cooper books as they were published - a wonderful writer who could handle language, story and SF brilliantly. Many of his books were amongst a valued early SF collection which I eventually had to sell. Wish I'd been able to keep them. Transit, A Far Sunset and Five to Twelve were my favourites. From his later books, Son of Kronk is amusing and very entertaining. There's some interesting story about the publisher not accepting Cooper's original title, but I've forgotten it; can anyone remember?
 
I read the four Expendables books more or less as they came out (they were still in my collection up until a space-induced cull a year or two ago) and enjoyed them.

I also read a few of Cooper's earlier books -- Who Needs Men and Sea-Horse in the Sky -- and while I didn't not enjoy these, they failed to fully engage and I never read any more of his work.

It was only years later that I discovered the 'Richard Avery' who wrote the Expendables quartet was in fact Edmund Cooper writing under a pseudonym.
 
I have read everything apart from the Expendables books and Unborn Tomorrow which remains difficult to find one day I may be lucky, but I did enjoy his books.
 
I'm about 2 years behind the times here. I have a pretty large collection of Edmund Cooper books. Though have only read "Five To Twelve", "Voices in the Dark" and "All Fools' Day".

While "All Fools Day" and "Five to Twelve" are rather misogynistic, and sordid. They are still extremely well written. "Five to Twelve" has a wonderfully wry wit, and caustic sense of humour about it. Though the stand out for me out of these 3 books is "Voices in the Dark".

What I took as being a novel at the time was in reality a group of short stories. Most of the stories were period pieces based in the early 20th century or earlier. With a couple of sci-fi efforts thrown in. This little book proved to me, that Ed Cooper was more than just some misogynistic hack writer. funny, poignant and just plain beautiful. By far one of my favourite books of all time!
 
A really great sf writer who deserves a lot more credit. I've read all his books - those which made the greatest impression were Deadly Image, All Fools' Day, Kronk, Transit, and Seahorse In The Sky.

Some excellent short stories too, collected in Jupiter Laughs and Tomorrow Came. His story Falcon Chase, which I found very similar to ET (though written decades before) is a bleak but touching look at first contact.
 
Agreed, he is a very underrated writer and i hope to see his works reprinted in the SF Masterworks series. It's about time a new generation knew of his work.

As well as being a superb writer i always loved the cover artwork too. (I think it was Chris Foss.)
 
I've only read The Tenth Planet, about which I remember nothing, and A Far Sunset, which I reviewed here. I do have Gender Genocide (AKA Who Needs Men?) on the TBR, and I keep an eye open for any books of his I come across... Incidentally, check out the comments to my review on my blog - Cooper's son dropped by.
 
I recently reread Edmund Cooper's The Rings of Tantalus (the second of the Expendables books) for the first time in 35 years - it was dreadful. Real pulp crap.

It's hard to believe that even in 1975 you could get away with having black characters, even super-scientist action hero types, doing 'Uncle Tom' voices ("Here come de US cavalry!") and being casually referred to as a 'black *******' by a friend and colleague. It was, coincidentaly, the second book in a row that I had read to have the off-screen explosive climax explained, after the event, to the hero (and the reader) who missed it due to him (and the reader) having been whacked unconscious by a lazy writer.
 
From what I can gather, it seems his family may have no wish to have his novels re-published due to conflicts with him in the past.

As for his use of racism and sexism. We do need to understand that the man was born, and raised, in an era where these things were socially acceptable. While I do not agree with these sentiments, I will not hold them against him. Otherwise, I would hate most of my favourite writers.
 
According to the comment he left on my blog, Cooper's son has been trying to get a biography of him published.

Granted that attitudes were different back then, but there's also the matter of degree. Even for the 1960s having a black character talk like something out of The Black and White Minstrel Show - especially in a sf novel - is not good and difficult to justify. And Cooper's misogyny has been mentioned so often, it can't simply be put down to him belinging to "a different generation".
 
Diggler said:
As for his use of racism and sexism. We do need to understand that the man was born, and raised, in an era where these things were socially acceptable.
Click to expand...

I'm not wanting to pick a fight here but even in 1975 calling people a 'black *******' was contentious. I know I didn't do it; though terms like 'Wog' and 'Nig-Nog' were regularly used on British TV of the time. I was commenting on how amazing it was that attitudes have changed so much since The Rings of Tantalus was written.

I've not read any Cooper since the 1980s so can't comment on anything else he has written but The Rings of Tantalus is just not very good. Lazily plotted, cardboard, racially stereotyped, characters and real cop-out 'I've reached my required number of pages' ending. Maybe that's why he published them under a pseudonym.
 
iansales said:
According to the comment he left on my blog, Cooper's son has been trying to get a biography of him published.

Granted that attitudes were different back then, but there's also the matter of degree. Even for the 1960s having a black character talk like something out of The Black and White Minstrel Show - especially in a sf novel - is not good and difficult to justify. And Cooper's misogyny has been mentioned so often, it can't simply be put down to him belinging to "a different generation".
Click to expand...

I agree. Though I look at my wife's father, who is 82, and does actually have a different view of race and women. And when my wife (his daughter) questions him on this, he really has no answer. Or claims there's nothing wrong with what he says. Though on the same token he treats all people, regardless of race or colour, with utmost respect.

Changing the subject again. I did find some info from a man by the name of Ian Covell. He claimed that Hodder & Stoughton have owned the rights to all of Edmund Cooper's writings for decades and refuse to have them re-published?
 
iansales said:
Even for the 1960s having a black character talk like something out of The Black and White Minstrel Show - especially in a sf novel - is not good and difficult to justify.
Click to expand...

To be fair and accurate the black character I was referring to earlier knowingly 'assumes' the 'Uncle Tom' voice from time to time - I presume for some supposed comic effect. It's not his normal speaking voice.
 
I don't think that it's fair to raise issues of racism and sexism in a book that was written when this sort of attitude was the norm. It's certainly not something to get the hump over. Remember. we're only looking at these with the eyes of 30 years of hindsight.
 
But the point is that while some degree of it may have been common (it's never acceptable), some writers were more racist and misogynist than others. And it's perfectly fair to call them out on it.
 
iansales said:
But the point is that while some degree of it may have been common (it's never acceptable), some writers were more racist and misogynist than others. And it's perfectly fair to call them out on it.
Click to expand...

I agree that it's more than fair to point out that, even given the mores of their day, some authors were more reactionary than others but let's not forget to differentiate between what was acceptable and what is acceptable. Saying something is never acceptable just doesn't work. It implies that there is standard set of rules of morality that has never changed - which is patently absurd.
 
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