Who is worth talking too for Fantasy books?

[Sonshu]

Hi there I am new to the forum and from what I have seen it has some good information for people such as me.

I have just finished a book that I’ve been meaning to write for some time it’s (like many fantasy books) based on many years of role play games. I started these at aged 8 and am now 33 so something of a vet now.

This is what will be the first of at least 3 books with the chance of taking it up to 7-10 books across different ages of the world, all done from continued RP gaming.

I have set this book as a fast paced adult book and the first one rounds off well with strong realistic characters, a believable world and gripping plot (12 years of role play history has gone into it so it’s established to say the least).

People I know who read SF and Fantasy novels (all friends and co-gamers) think it is excellent and have asked for more when I do it but the question is where and who to speak to now?

It is sitting at 117,000 words (I can extend it but it would be just filling space and the story sits well at its current ending so I would need some convincing as to why it needs to be the magical 120k+).

Any tips of who to speak do, should I bother with an agent or go direct etc as in my day job I am the director of a recruitment agency so I am well aware of how quick professional’s time disappears during the week and would rather not waste others nor my own.

So any tipsters here on who to speak too as I am having a week off in planning my attack then the hunt begins to find a home for my epic fantasy novel?

Thanks for your help.

 

[ctg]

First of all, welcome to the forum. This side of the forum has been quiet for a little while, so bear with the people as it might take some time the answers to dribble in.

Secondly, your debut fantasy novel is a little bit short to fit in the current standards, where British publishers are looking to publish something closer to 140 000 words then 120 000. Therefore, do take your time to expand and polish it till you can see your own image. In 2009 publishers are only acquiring novels that are close to ready to be published. So, don't throw away your day job and don't even do it on first book, but after you have published two to three well selling books.

A word of advice, if you're unsure about your epic prose then post an exert in the critiques and see what totally strangers say about it. Thing is that I have learned to trust them rather then more friends, who also tell BS by saying "it's great, when can we see in shop?" The reason, is that your friends comments doesn't mean a thing. Only those who work in the publishing circles can really say what's what.

 

[Boneman]

Hi Sonshu,
like you, I showed my book to friends and others and they all loved it, which was very gratifying. When I paid for a professional critique, I got honest truth, and have re-written five times since. I'm not saying yours isn't 'publisher-ready' and it would be great if that happened for you. But (and it's been reiterated many times on these threads) you don't want to send out your masterpiece until you are absolutely 110% certain it's the best it can be, so I echo ctg in this, and suggest that a professional critique should be the next port of call. Some bloke called John Jarrold even does them, and guess what? If he thought it was publisher-ready he'd tell you and sign you up...........! There are many professional critiquers that you can find, and some of them do have conduits to Agents and Publishers, the choice is yours. Spend some time reading through these threads and there is a wealth of free advice available to you.

The word count thing? John Jarrold said this:

Definitely over 100,000 words - 120/140,000 is fine. And throughout the Fantasy/SF/Horror genres, series sell far better than one-offs.

You'll find quite abit of stuff in 'personal questions to John' on page 83 of the thread, but use the search engine as well with key words. This site has it all......

Hmmm, director of Recruitment Agency, eh? I was manager of three offices and head office of a recruitment agancy, but that was back in the 80s when it was easy to do.......

Good luck.

 

[Susan Boulton]

Hi,

I will try and answer some of your questions.

Personally I would try for an agent. There are very few main stream publishers that are taking unsolicited manuscripts at present, so you are fairly handicapped as to where you can submit. Ok, an agent takes 15% out of your advance and earnings, but they know the business, know which editor would look at your work, what is selling, and where your work fits into the market at present.

It also leaves you to just write, without worrying about trying to sell your work.

I would suggest you get the current copy of the Writers' and Artists' Year book. It lists agents and publishers both here in the UK and worldwide. It also lists what genre they rep. But quite often agents, especially if they are a large company, will take a look at other genres. Christopher Little does not list fantasy, yet they rep J. K Rowling, and did look at my work. So double check, even a polite phone call asking if they would consider a submission might be worth it.

Check out the agents' reputation, this forum has lots of info on all aspects of writing.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/

Follow the agents/publishers submisson guidelines to the letter, either for email queries or postal submissions. (Most UK agents like the cover letter, synopsis and first three chapters by post, though some are moving towards email submissions, John Jarrold and the agency I am with, Zeno, for one.)

Don't sweat the word count, you are over 100,000 words. Under that you might have trouble in the UK, but in the states they tend to look for between 80,000 and 120,000. UK is more 100,000 to 150,000. Over 150,000 for a first novel might be a hard sell (going from comments by my agent concerning one of my manuscripts, which originally was close to 170,000).

The important thing is to be patient, submit in small batches of say five submissions. Don't send any others out until they have cleared. You could get lucky and have suggestions re the manuscript on your rejections. Any such is a gift and should be thought about. If you have a request for a full manuscript, think carefully about granting an exclusive. If you do try and get a date, say 60 days.

Hope that helps a little.

Good luck with the submission!

 

[Sonshu]

Thanks all

A few points on the info given.

I am lucky enough that my friends have all been reading fantasy novels for well over a decade each and they are the type of friends who would not spare my feelings if I had wasted my time. I deal with some of them professionally as well and over the years we have had our disagreements over working practices etc so I know they would be no ego stroking going on here just honest critique (there has been some which was well founded and I have acted on it).

Day job, well I own half the company and yes I can take a back seat a bit but I am not planning to give up my day job unless the book is a runaway success, even then I will still be involved somehow.

Word count, I have kept the pace of the book paramount so people will want to fight to get to the next section and I think I have cracked it. Unless I have to add 20k worth of words for the sake of it I won’t be wanting too as it’s enough to cover both the UK and USA market given its current count and its written for the broad appeal factor. The pace makes it an engaging read I think and I find many fantasy novels have pointless events in them just to fill page space etc. I think I have avoided this and given scope for more books to follow on keeping its length at 117k means it stays fresh and not laborious to get through.

This is the important bit

This brings me to the Agents section, I am looking for 3-5 good agents who deal in fantasy and SF books as I own an agency (Recruitment) and know how important their time and mine is also it’s all about ££££ for them and satisfaction for me, so I am looking to be ultra efficient & professional as opposed to some crazed person trying to ram a weird concept down their throat. The ones I have seen so far that look ok are:

Litsoup - they seem ok
Zeno also (got a no submissions on their site though so won’t be speaking to them....)
I will look into John Jarrold also
Anyone have 2-3 more as the lists don’t indicate clearly which genre there into so it’s a long hunt to find one that really sounds like they understand the fantasy market?
Thanks again

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I am lucky enough that my friends have all been reading fantasy novels for well over a decade each and they are the type of friends who would not spare my feelings if I had wasted my time. I deal with some of them professionally as well and over the years we have had our disagreements over working practices etc so I know they would be no ego stroking going on here just honest critique ...

To be perfectly honest, this is what everyone thinks when their friends and co-workers love what they have written. But non-writers tend to get excited when they get an inside look at somebody's writing process, and can become so invested in your work as a result that they stop being properly critical. And of course, unlike an agent, an editor, or the ordinary reader who might pick up your novel at a bookstore, they aren't being asked to invest in it financially -- which also makes a big difference. It's not that none of these people can give you an honest appraisal, it's just that it's nearly impossible to tell which ones can and which ones can't.



My best advise would be to join a really good writer's group and run your book past them. You will not only benefit from their advice, but you will gain valuable insights by critiquing other writers' work in return. In contrast to your non-writing friends, writers working seriously on their own projects aren't likely to feel proprietary and protective about yours, and will therefore be much more clear-eyed in their assessments. Even more importantly, they will be committed to giving you the same sort of tough-love they expect in return.

Meanwhile put aside any idea that you are going to find an agent or a publisher quickly and efficiently. Publishing typically moves at a snail's pace, and although agents and editors do have a great deal to do and limited time in which to do it, none of their procedures are set up in a way that will spare you time, because that would make their own workloads unmanageable.

Don't make the mistake of imagining that publishing is like your business in any way. It's not like other businesses; it's not even like businesses that you might think would be very similar (the music business, for instance). New writers put themselves in the way of a great deal of frustration and disappointment when they don't understand this.

And while confidence in yourself is absolutely essential, youdon't want to sound arrogant or cocky (at least until after you've published a wildly successful novel) because established agents and editors can choose between many, many, many promising new writers to work with, and they are going to have a strong preference for those that sound like they are going to be cooperative and not try to teach professionals their own business.

In other words, when you do contact someone don't tell them what you have told us here: that the pace is perfect, the characters are strong and realistic, the plot gripping, etc. Editors and agents like to make up their own minds about these things, and that sort of sales pitch comes across as very unprofessional. Let the writing speak for itself.

Frankly, it sounds to me that you need to do a lot more research and gain a far better understanding of the writing business (the links that others have provided above are a good place to start) before you're ready to start sending out your work. It may feel like a waste of time now when you're eager to get started, but it will save time and heartache later.

 

[Sonshu]

Teresa thanks for your post

To give you more insight my Recruitment Agency places people in media. Producers, publishers, editors and journalists are mostly what we recruit for but these are in the conference, energy, finance and educational publishing sectors so they are very much media and publishing based with many of the same issues on publications.

My business does not recruiting warehouse staff or lorry drivers and just like authoring agents our time is given for free until we make a sale so there are similarities again here. This is the point I am merely making and to ask for recomendations as to who I should be speaking to as a referal is worth much more than running google searches which I am sure you will agree with so if you have any?

I just wanted to clarify the point of I have some cross over with media one of our clients being Penguin / Pearson education, hope this helps. I am also very realistic on this venture.
With sending and proofs to agents I know not to put my personal take on my book as it will be one sides of course but I assume this is a given for anyone in their right mind. It is all subjective the reader be they agent or paying customer at a book store all make up their own minds. This is again the same for us when we read CV’s of Journalists or Producers etc.
If you still think I have missed the point then please let me know and thank you all for your tips, but rest assured I have gone through the sites listed here and others doing my checks where needed including John Jarrolds posts.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

This is the point I am merely making and to ask for recomendations as to who I should be speaking to as a referal is worth much more than running google searches which I am sure you will agree with ...

Actually, I don't. Without first reading your book and doing the market research as to what particular agents are looking for at this particular moment in time I have no idea which agents are likely to be interested in your book.

Pure and simple, you are going to have to do the "legwork," and that may indeed involve a certain amount of googling.

In the meantime, you need to learn how to write a query letter and prepare a synopsis and submission package.

 

[Boneman]

I echo the writer's and Artist's yearbook, it's invaluable. Better than that (or perhaps complementary to it) is to pick up as many books in the same genre as yours, and see who the agent is. Invariably they are mentioned in the authors' acknowledgements. 30 minutes in Ottokars could be invaluable. And Teresa has covered eveything else in better prose than what I have.

Oh....you need to sort out your 'too' and 'to' so it makes four....

Who is worth talking too for Fantasy books?

should be 'to'....

Unless I have to add 20k worth of words for the sake of it I won’t be wanting too as it’s enough

should be 'to'....

 

[Sonshu]

Theresa

Thank you I checked up a few days ago for the info on submissions and synopsis which I gained from Google, one agent’s site kindly pointed me in the right direction on this.

All I asked for was some reputable agents names who specialise in fantasy, not who would be interested in my book as until they read it this I took as pretty much a given.

Boneman

Thanks I have a pretty wide selection of books and chalked up the publishers and agents on them all but will take my time with it. This was thankfully my first point of call and coming here to this forum was really just additional information to speak to actual published authors or budding ones like me and the advice is reinforcing what my research has uncovered so happy days.

Thank you all for the info and advice as for the grammar luckily my wife has impeccable English being a proof reader comercially and went thought it with a fine tooth comb removing my little errors as have others who have read it. It was never a strong point of mine as I am more the creative side.

Well the fun now the fun and heartache begin in earnest next week.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Thank you I checked up a few days ago for the info on submissions and synopsis which I gained from Google, one agent’s site kindly pointed me in the right direction on this.

Then I will assume that you actually know enough that when you do start submitting your work you won't repeat the same mistake you made above and confuse "manuscripts" with "proofs."

This may sound like nit-picking, but even though you aren't yet a professional in the one sense (actually being published), you need to sound like you are professional in every other sense of the word. And demonstrating your knowledge of the business through the way you address the process does far more to convince an editor or an agent that you possess that sort of professionalism than listing all of your non-publishing interactions with publishing houses ever could.

 

[Boneman]

Sonshu, the very best of luck, and (speaking from experience) try to develop non-attachment to the postman.......

Of course you could always post a snippet of your book on the threads. Then we could see what we're talking about.........

 

[Sonshu]

I will do as I am just awaiting a couple of proof reads back and then some touch up time so I will do it next week.

As I say I am not giving up my day job, I wrote this as one of the things to do in life and if someone wants to take a punt on it great but if not I still have a job I enjoy that pays well enough so no loss.

So I guess the rest only time will tell....

Theresa - I only posted that information to indicate what I mentioned earlier and that I am not a recruiter of chicken packers etc. I am sure your only trying to give me your thoughts but you do sound incredibly negative on the whole industry, my view on it all is if it's a a non starter it's no loss I entered it with nothing so if I come away with nothing I break even.

At least I tried and had fun along the way.

 

[Tirellan]

Take a look at agentquery.com
You should find 70+ legitimate US agents who handle fantasy from a basic search there.
I second the advice you've been given about getting critiques on your novel from qualified people. Writers will see flaws in the work that people who merely read fantasy will not appreciate.
It is a very difficult time to get picked up with adventure fantasy for the adult market. My own novel, which is pitched at the exact same market, went around the publishers last year and no-one bought it.

 

[Sonshu]

Take a look at agentquery.com
You should find 70+ legitimate US agents who handle fantasy from a basic search there.
I second the advice you've been given about getting critiques on your novel from qualified people. Writers will see flaws in the work that people who merely read fantasy will not appreciate.
It is a very difficult time to get picked up with adventure fantasy for the adult market. My own novel, which is pitched at the exact same market, went around the publishers last year and no-one bought it.

I wish you the best with it and thank you for the excellent advice I will look into it. Best of luck with getting somewhere though and like you we will just have to keep at it.

 

[Sonshu]

Thanks for the tip that is the sort of thing I was after.

Also best of luck searching for that break.

 

[Susan Boulton]

Agentquery is good, but it can be out of date. Agents don't always update their profile. I would always double-check the agent's details and requirements for submission with the agent's agency website, preditors and editors, and in the "bewares" section of absolute write.

I have found agents have changed agencies, or shut to submissons, yet agent query is saying otherwise.

Often if two agents at an agency rep fantasy they might want you to query only one, (as they pass things over to their fellow agent, or they want you to query one at a time.)

Also US agents mainly require you query first. i.e. send a query letter with a short one or two paragraph pitch of your novel's story. Genre, word count, publishing credits and a short bio. These are nomally email, but some still like the postal type.

Query letters are an art form all of their own. You live or die on one paragraph. UK agents still seem to like the synopsis, three chapter by snail mail, which I find better, as at least you are showing them your writing.

Quite often at Cons like Eastercon, or Fantasycon (UK events) they do "agent pitches" by arrangement, where you have a slot to pitch and read a sample of your novel to agents. Events like these are ideal for finding out about the workings of the industry.

Take out a subscription to Writers' news (which is packed with industry info) and Writing magazine, again packed with info and articles on writing.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Theresa - I only posted that information to indicate what I mentioned earlier and that I am not a recruiter of chicken packers etc. I am sure your only trying to give me your thoughts but you do sound incredibly negative on the whole industry ...

I am not at all negative on the industry, but in order to navigate it successfully you need to understand it. I have seen too many new writers burn out prematurely because they think they know what it is about, approach everything the wrong way, fail, and then decide that the whole process is so incomprehensible there is no use going on. It doesn't have to happen that way.

At this point, it looks like you would be better off if you had been recruiting chicken packers, because then you would be going in with a blank slate rather than one already filled with vague misconceptions. (I assume that if you had been recruiting plumbers you wouldn't therefore feel qualified to repair you own pipes.)

However, this does not answer your original question, or tell you what you want to know, so I'll leave off trying to tell you what I think you need to know first, and leave others to answer the question you've actually asked.

 

[Tirellan]

Agentquery is good, but it can be out of date. Agents don't always update their profile. I would always double-check the agent's details and requirements for submission with the agent's agency website, preditors and editors, and in the "bewares" section of absolute write.

I have found agents have changed agencies, or shut to submissons, yet agent query is saying otherwise.

This is somewhat true. Some agents update AQ when their circumstances change, others don't and AQ are reliant on their writing community spotting those changes and telling them. However, some agencies are slow to update their website (if they have one) and AQ is at least more up to date than the 'Guide to Literary Agents'.
The message here is to cross-check wherever possible.

 

[Stephen Aryan]

Thank you Teresa for all of your comments. As someone who is a published author and can speak from experience of the business, and the process of getting published, it is all valuable insight for aspiring writers.