Anyone else disappointed with Lies of Locke Lamora/Ash?

[HoopyFrood]

How do posts like this contribute anything to this thread? I asked if anyone else was disappointed... not if people liked it.

The question in the thread title is clearly open to both yes or no answers and so you're going to get both. Nixie's reply was obviously showing that she wasn't disappointed.

And if they felt that someone else being disappointed in something they loved and felt obligated to post despite being irrelevant, the least they could do is say why they loved it...

Almost everyone who has replied to the thread has said that they have loved Lies or Ash so in your line of argument, Shadow, all our posts are irrelevant. People have different opinions and are always willing to share; lively debate is also what keep the threads moving. And people can hardly say they were disappointed with the books if they actually liked them. You asked for people's thoughts on this and they are giving them to you.

 

[shadow9d9]

The question in the thread title is clearly open to both yes or no answers and so you're going to get both. Nixie's reply was obviously showing that she wasn't disappointed.



Almost everyone who has replied to the thread has said that they have loved Lies or Ash so in your line of argument, Shadow, all our posts are irrelevant. People have different opinions and are always willing to share; lively debate is also what keep the threads moving. And people can hardly say they were disappointed with the books if they actually liked them. You asked for people's thoughts on this and they are giving them to you.

Not all, but many, yes... my title asks if anyone is disappointed, not if they liked it.

Reading into "Just curious as to what the thoughts of others are...", you might construe the topic to be asking if people like it, but that would be silly, considering all of the praise on forums and sites pushing how Lamora is so amazing. It was meant to mean what are others thoughts that were similarly disappointed and why they were disappointed.

It would be more effective in my opinion to let a thread die from lack of response if no one agrees with me rather than posting a contribution that amounts to saying "nope".

There is a big push nowadays to love all of the new authors it seems... I guess I am just a tad more picky than others.. like many others here have posted, they almost never put down books regardless of how bad the first multihundred pages are!

 

[shadow9d9]

Ignore this.

 

[Connavar]

Trust me i dont love all new authors. I have read many that have made me almost disgusted by how the book was. But i see how it can seem that way cause people find a book great they hype it to death like its the best thing since the wheel

Lies is on my to buy list cause of all the praise for it and i want to try something new.

Trust me if its not so good i will let you know. By the end of this month i have prolly read the book.

 

[Sathai]

Just curious as to what the thoughts of others are... My wife and I both gave up on the book at pages 75 and 50 respectively. Way too much descripton and a story that is completely unoriginal-has been done wayyy too many times before.

I haven't read Ash, but I did read the Locke Lamora book. I thought it was an ok read, not great like the reviews were saying. I think it's because I don't like that style of writing though. I prefer more thoughtful, drawn out, character-driven books. And this one was more of the action/adventure type of book.

 

[Lucien21]

I think 50 pages isn't enough to gauge the quality of a novel.

I originally gave up very quickly on The Dragonbone Chair the first time I read it. When I went back to it a few years later I percerviered and ended up loving the book as a whole even though the start is still a bit slow.

If I was half way through a book and not enjoying it I would probably put it down.

 

[j d worthington]

It would be more effective in my opinion to let a thread die from lack of response if no one agrees with me rather than posting a contribution that amounts to saying "nope".

The thing is, once you open the bottle, the genie's out: meaning, you'll get all sorts of input, and you can't really direct it in a thread (believe me, I've tried!). People are sharing their thoughts with you and, while it may not be quite what you're looking for, those you don't find helpful you can simply skip or let go... address the ones that are closer to what you're looking for. Anything else tends to override the very purpose of a place like this.

Also, some people simply have a very brief, terse (in the sense of short, not rude) style with their answers. That's part of the variety of such a place -- different styles of approach.

 

[mogora]

If I feel like putting down a book after 50 pages then I feel like I wasn't selective enough in the store or in my online researches. I'll give a book about ~1/3 (equivalent to 30 minutes of a movie ) to 1/2 way through unless I hit something that triggers the 'book against wall' reflex.

As for Ash, I've tried the books a couple of times but can't seem to finish. Normally I would like a character like Ash but in this case I'm just not. It's a pity because I think the book (or books where I am) are quite intriguing and I like the interludes of 'present' time. But tastes do change and I'll probably try them again in the future.

I enjoyed Lies of Locke Lamora. While not quite living up to all the massive hype, I did like it a lot and liked the characters.

 

[svalbard]

Ash is a standout book for me. It took a while to get going but once it did I was sucked in, I found the imagery fanatstic. The interaction between the members of the mercenary groups is very well done. Go back to it if you get a chance, it is defenitely worth it.

Never heard of Lies of Locke Lamora. Must check it out.

 

[shadow9d9]

If I feel like putting down a book after 50 pages then I feel like I wasn't selective enough in the store or in my online researches. I'll give a book about ~1/3 (equivalent to 30 minutes of a movie ) to 1/2 way through unless I hit something that triggers the 'book against wall' reflex.

As for Ash, I've tried the books a couple of times but can't seem to finish. Normally I would like a character like Ash but in this case I'm just not. It's a pity because I think the book (or books where I am) are quite intriguing and I like the interludes of 'present' time. But tastes do change and I'll probably try them again in the future.

I enjoyed Lies of Locke Lamora. While not quite living up to all the massive hype, I did like it a lot and liked the characters.

I would give a movie about 20 minutes... 30 minutes is not 1/3 of most movies anyhow.

Cause we all know how reliable reviews online are.. everyone loves Locke Lamora online and at these sites.. pushing it like it was amazing...

well, it wasn't and no research online could change that. 2/3 of each page had useless description and almost nothing happens in the first 50 pages.. I don't enjoy wading through endless padding to get to good stuff... Poor editing and poor writing. 50 pages is plenty to at least intrigue the reader.

How many times do we need to read the same amazingly talented thief book? Nothing separated it from the absolute ordinary.. and with such padding and little going on in the first 50-75 pages(wife read to 75, another reason I quit at 50-it obviously didn't get better), there is no reason to continue.

People just seem to want to hype and push new authors to increase readership in the genre or something... I'm much much more careful to what I push as the next great thing.. I only recommend the best. This is as far from the best as can be!

 

[Connavar]

Or people might actually like it cause its good to them and not just to annoy you or cause of the hype.....

 

[Rosemary]

Well, I read to the very end of Lies.... and it is one book I won't be reading again. The characters didn't seem real, very stilted was my impression. The story line - well that was just ok.
Everyone has their own taste in science fiction or fantasy. This particular book was not mine, even though so many other readers thought differently.

 

[Pyan]

2/3 of each page had useless description and almost nothing happens in the first 50 pages.. I don't enjoy wading through endless padding to get to good stuff... Poor editing and poor writing. 50 pages is plenty to at least intrigue the reader.

I really don't understand the tendency to decry description these days - and it's not the first time I've heard this sentiment, shadow, so I'm not getting at you in particular here. If I'm entering a completely new world, I need the descriptions to flesh it out for my mind's eye - too little and it's as if the main characters are performing in front of a blank backdrop. Fritz Leiber's Lankhmar series is stuffed full of description, as is GRR Martin's Song of Fire and Ice sequence, and I can picture these worlds to a T. Same with Lynch's books. And personally I was intrigued after the first two pages.

How many times do we need to read the same amazingly talented thief book? Nothing separated it from the absolute ordinary.. and with such padding and little going on in the first 50-75 pages(wife read to 75, another reason I quit at 50-it obviously didn't get better), there is no reason to continue.

Ah, there you are, you see. If you had continued to read, you would have found out how inappropriate that description of Lamora is.

People just seem to want to hype and push new authors to increase readership in the genre or something... I'm much much more careful to what I push as the next great thing.. I only recommend the best. This is as far from the best as can be!

And that is why I couldn't now take your opinion on whether a book is "the best" or not seriously, I'm afraid, if you feel qualified to make such a sweeping statement as the last one based on reading only fifty pages.
Read the whole thing, and then say you were disappointed (as Rosie just said) and, whereas I may disagree with you, I will respect your right to say what you think. But I think it's unfair to judge a book on such a perfunctory acquaintance.

 

[mogora]

People just seem to want to hype and push new authors to increase readership in the genre or something... I'm much much more careful to what I push as the next great thing.. I only recommend the best. This is as far from the best as can be!

People have different tastes and you obviously didn't enjoy the 50 pages of Lies that you read. That's fine. I think 50 pages is too soon to give up on a book. You think that's plenty of time. That's fine too. But you are wrong when you imply that people just want to hype or push a new author. People can genuinely like something that you can't stand, you know, and can consider it to be among the 'best'.

 

[Culhwch]

Well, I've persevered with Lies and I'm now glad I did. It has certainly taken a different direction to the one in which I imagined it was headed. About halfway through now, and going strong. And I'd agree with Pyan - this is certainly not like any other 'amazingly talented thief' story I've ever come across.

 

[Nikitta]

I really don't understand the tendency to decry description these days - and it's not the first time I've heard this sentiment, shadow, so I'm not getting at you in particular here. If I'm entering a completely new world, I need the descriptions to flesh it out for my mind's eye - too little and it's as if the main characters are performing in front of a blank backdrop.

I agree. In fact I think that the main reason why I couldn't get into the one David Gemmel book I tried was a lack of descriptions. However, it is also possible to over-do the descriptions. There should be just enough for me to imagine it, but not so much that I get bored or think "Alright, alright - I get that the forest is pretty already! Can we just please move on?!"

 

[Pyan]

However, it is also possible to over-do the descriptions. There should be just enough for me to imagine it, but not so much that I get bored or think "Alright, alright - I get that the forest is pretty already! Can we just please move on?!"

Oh yes, I agree that it is possible to over-do it, but the point I'm trying to make is that, unlike TV or cinema where it's done for you, reading needs description to make it work, and paring it down to the bone makes it hard work for the reader.

Reading the "Critiques" section, I am frequently surprised at the advice that is often given to "cut down the description", and to "improve the flow," and to "speed up the action", after even the briefest descriptive passages. But perhaps I'm behind the times here, and the average target readers these days want their books to read like film-scripts? Certainly, to my eyes, the descriptions in a lot of the genre published today seem to be perfunctory at best; I reckon that Charles Dickens would have been rejected out of hand if he tried to submit any of his work to the average publisher today! And how would H.P. Lovecraft fare, where up to three-quarters of some of his stories are nothing but description!?

So (to haul the thread back on course) this is one of the reasons why I wasn't disappointed by Lamora, because it wasn't slam-bam into action for fear of losing the reader - it treats him/her as someone who enjoys knowing more about the setting of a story - and why I think that in an age when so little work is left for the reader/viewer/player, this book stands out as worth persevering with, and reading right through at least once.

 

[Culhwch]

...and why I think that in an age when so little work is left for the reader/viewer/player, this book stands out as worth persevering with, and reading right through at least once.

Not that I'm disagreeing with the thrust of your argument here, Pyan, but doesn't this contradict it? I'd have thought with books scant on description, a reader need work harder than on a book rife with it...

 

[Nikitta]

Reading the "Critiques" section, I am frequently surprised at the advice that is often given to "cut down the description", and to "improve the flow," and to "speed up the action", after even the briefest descriptive passages. But perhaps I'm behind the times here, and the average target readers these days want their books to read like film-scripts? Certainly, to my eyes, the descriptions in a lot of the genre published today seem to be perfunctory at best; I reckon that Charles Dickens would have been rejected out of hand if he tried to submit any of his work to the average publisher today! And how would H.P. Lovecraft fare, where up to three-quarters of some of his stories are nothing but description!?

I see what you mean. I really enjoy reading Lovecraft, myself, though I never thought of his stories as having overly long descriptions. In fact, I think that some of the power of his stories comes from what he doesn't describe, but leave to your imagination. Come to think of it, you're right that he describes a lot of things, but it just seems - different, so it doesn't feel like it's just long descriptions. Does that make any sense?

As far as the topic of this thread goes, I've never read The Lies of Locke Lamora and I've only read a little of Ash, which seems promising enough - I just couldn't wrap my head around it at the time, so I've put it aside for the time being and will pick it up again once I don't have quite so many other things on my mind.

I'm in the middle of changing jobs, so I have the last few weeks on my current job while wondering how things will go in the new job and that lowers my concentration for reading a bit. This means that getting into long, complicated stories in a new universe is a bit too much right now.

 

[Pyan]

Not that I'm disagreeing with the thrust of your argument here, Pyan, but doesn't this contradict it? I'd have thought with books scant on description, a reader need work harder than on a book rife with it...

I see what you mean - but I find that without description, the background just stays as a blur, and I don't bother even trying to fill it in....