Need some help with a new plot

[Virtual_Space]

I have made many plots over time, well since I started writing at 17 a year ago. However, none have been all that original or well thought out. They tend to quickly dissolve into a garbled mess that I cannot control or are so simplethey are no fun to write or read. So this time I'm going to ask for some help. Any and all advice, no matter how cruel, is welcome. Sorry in advance for the length.

Ok, the basic plot is this. The book follows four gods, mostly focusing on the second oldest male named Satira. Near the beginning of the world their parents (no names thought of yet) created them in a kind of adam and eve type thing. They gave them somewhat weaker versions of their own powers. However the four children murder their parents, the original gods, and seize power.

Millenia later they each control a section of the world, with Vermosa (the eldest child and leader of the gods) controlling the mountain city at the tip of the world and the surrounding oceans. The word is growing increasingly volatile and is riddled with war between three kingdoms (kingdom info and names not yet set). Vermosa convinces the other gods to war in a cleansing of the world. Each god leads their personal army to destroy the kingdom in their section and Vermosa stays and defends the gods homeland. However the entire situation is a fabrication from Vermosa who weakens his siblings armies through war and then seizes complete control.

Anyways skip ahead a bit. Darus (the youngest of the gods) wipes out the majority of his kingdom, and Menires (the only woman god) is leading a less successful war. Satira I have not fully decided on. All I know is that I am going to have him split off from the gods and lead the kingdoms against his siblings. My main idea for this is to have him raid a small farm for supplies and kill all the family except for one young woman who he brings along with him. He falls in love with her over the course of time and is stripped of his army by Vermosa when he finds out.

Thats it so far. Give me any advice you can. Thanks.

 

[Frank menser]

VS,

My initial take on this is that you allready have a good thing going here. The foundation is laid and the characters seem well defined.

What I would suggest is that you relax and let the characters tell you where they are going. I find writing stays a bit fresher when you don't have all the answers beforehand. You may find yourself caught up in more unexpected plot twists that way which will help stave off the enevidatable boredom that camn come from too much familiarity.

Really, you don't need plot advice, it will come to you.

~Frank

 

[The Pelagic Argosy]

VS,

My initial take on this is that you allready have a good thing going here. The foundation is laid and the characters seem well defined.

What I would suggest is that you relax and let the characters tell you where they are going. I find writing stays a bit fresher when you don't have all the answers beforehand. You may find yourself caught up in more unexpected plot twists that way which will help stave off the enevidatable boredom that camn come from too much familiarity.

Really, you don't need plot advice, it will come to you.

~Frank

Well, Virtual was concerned that in the past, when his/her plots weren't well planned, they collapsed. Some writers can jump in without an outline, but some can't.

My advice, in your situation, is to make sure you have a well-developed back story for each major character. Yes, this will involve more work. You'll probably wind up with pages and pages of details that won't even show up in your story in any direct way. (We're talking thousands of years, in the case of gods.) And your story will probably feel more complicated for awhile. But I think that, by knowing your characters intimately, it will become more clear to you where they are going.

Some questions I had were...Why did they kill their parents in the first place and what is the basis for their on-going feud? Personally, I think the story will be boring if they are all making personal power grabs. That would make them all villians. Is this simply sibling rivalry blown up to a cosmic scale? I don't think that would work either, unless you're writing a comedy. Do any of them feel any responsiblity toward the mortals in their various kingdoms? Do they feel any responsiblity toward their parents' creation?

That's another question. How do you kill gods? Especially when the two dead gods were, supposedly, more powerful than those who killed them. And if these four siblings are equally powerful, not to mention immortal, (I assume, as they have been alive for at least a millenium), how will they ultimately battle each other?

I know other writers on this forum have dealt with immortal characters, gods, angels, etc, so maybe they can help you out there.

 

[Birol]

I have made many plots over time, well since I started writing at 17 a year ago. However, none have been all that original or well thought out. They tend to quickly dissolve into a garbled mess that I cannot control or are so simplethey are no fun to write or read.

Actually, what you've listed here is not so much a plot as an outline for your novel. This is not a bad thing. It includes a plot, set points, etc. I hate to tell you this, but no idea, when first presented, will really sound that original. Most can be spun down to a very basic idea that sounds a lot like many other basic ideas. What's important is what you do with it, how you tell the story.

When writing, you need to give yourself permission to write crap. It's okay to not know everything and for the writing to not come out perfect in the first draft. (Another thing I hate to tell you, but no matter how many drafts you go through, it never will be perfect. What you write will never exactly match the images you have in your head.) At a certain point, writing does become work, though. Many writers refer to the mid-book as the point in time where they just want to walk away from the book. That's the point that you just have to push through. If you do, it will become fun again. (And then it will be work and then it will be fun... it's a cycle.) Trust me.

Ok, the basic plot is this. The book follows four gods, mostly focusing on the second oldest male named Satira. Near the beginning of the world their parents (no names thought of yet) created them in a kind of adam and eve type thing. They gave them somewhat weaker versions of their own powers. However the four children murder their parents, the original gods, and seize power.

Millenia later they each control a section of the world, with Vermosa (the eldest child and leader of the gods) controlling the mountain city at the tip of the world and the surrounding oceans.

This reminds me of the Greek story of how the gods came to be, with Zeus being saved by his mother, who tricked his father into swallowing a stone instead of Zeus, then Zeus killing his father, freeing his siblings, dividing the world with is brothers, and assuming power.

Now, don't despair. That's not a bad thing. Greek myths are a wonderful starting place for many stories and you have twisted this just enough that it's not a retelling -- it is an original story all your own. It also sounds quite enjoyable and like something I'd like to read.

Thats it so far. Give me any advice you can. Thanks.

What you've listed here is basically an outline for the entire novel. What I would recommend you do next is break it out into set points, major points in the novel that have to happen for the story to unfold, then start writing to each set point. When you reach one, readjust and move to the next one.

Remember, it does not have to be perfect and it's okay to change your mind about how things are proceeding. You don't have to know everything when you start out. You just have to keep moving forward (unless you change something that causes major ripples) until you reach The End.

Again, it's okay to write crap. It can all be fixed in rewrite.

 

[Anastasia]

I have several friends/relatives who are writers and what they tell me is don't force it - sometimes, a plot takes a while to develop and goes up a lot of blind alleyways before it starts to take shape. But unless you've got an advance and a contract, why worry? Some of the best books have taken decades to write.

Just don't give up on it, OK?

 

[Frank menser]

Exactly!

~Frank

 

[Interference]

With big epic type things, I like to have a last scene in mind, maybe only a last sentence. That way, I know how to start, I know how to end, everything else is just making the journey as exciting as possible. That's how I do it, anyway. This approach may not be to everyone's taste.

 

[hippokrene]

Does the novel start with the birth of the gods or with the beginning of their war? The first three paragraphs just felt like background to me.

Also, you haven't told me who the main character is, and what he wants.

 

[lin robinson]

Problem I would see is that isn't a plot for a book. It's like the opening section of a book. And would collapse because it doesn't do plot sort of things.
You read this and find yourself asking, Okay, great, now what happens?

I am not big on reading books on plot structure or outliningand such, but you might consider it.

Is there a climax? Is there a conflict that rises, confronts itself and is decided one way or the other? Does our boy win in the end? Does he have to make tough decisions like choosing between his army and his chick?

 

[Leo Medici]

I think the problem might be much more basic than you might think. VS, how much longer is your novel after each day?

 

[Götterdämmerung]

I have made many plots over time, well since I started writing at 17 a year ago. However, none have been all that original or well thought out. They tend to quickly dissolve into a garbled mess that I cannot control or are so simplethey are no fun to write or read. So this time I'm going to ask for some help. Any and all advice, no matter how cruel, is welcome. Sorry in advance for the length.

Ok, the basic plot is this. The book follows four gods, mostly focusing on the second oldest male named Satira. Near the beginning of the world their parents (no names thought of yet) created them in a kind of adam and eve type thing. They gave them somewhat weaker versions of their own powers. However the four children murder their parents, the original gods, and seize power.

Millenia later they each control a section of the world, with Vermosa (the eldest child and leader of the gods) controlling the mountain city at the tip of the world and the surrounding oceans. The word is growing increasingly volatile and is riddled with war between three kingdoms (kingdom info and names not yet set). Vermosa convinces the other gods to war in a cleansing of the world. Each god leads their personal army to destroy the kingdom in their section and Vermosa stays and defends the gods homeland. However the entire situation is a fabrication from Vermosa who weakens his siblings armies through war and then seizes complete control.

Anyways skip ahead a bit. Darus (the youngest of the gods) wipes out the majority of his kingdom, and Menires (the only woman god) is leading a less successful war. Satira I have not fully decided on. All I know is that I am going to have him split off from the gods and lead the kingdoms against his siblings. My main idea for this is to have him raid a small farm for supplies and kill all the family except for one young woman who he brings along with him. He falls in love with her over the course of time and is stripped of his army by Vermosa when he finds out.

Thats it so far. Give me any advice you can. Thanks.

You should change your characters from Gods into Kings. What makes human characters interesting is their character flaws. That's what makes drama come alive.

 

[hippokrene]

You should change your characters from Gods into Kings. What makes human characters interesting is their character flaws. That's what makes drama come alive.

You can write Kings with no flaws and Gods with plenty.

 

[Spectrum]

You can write Kings with no flaws and Gods with plenty.

I agree. Gods can have just as much personality as humans can, if you just give them a large enough role. The reason many gods in fiction have little personality is, I think, that their roles are small. Few stories actually revolve around the gods. Just write stories about the gods, and they will develop personality.

Hell, the gods of real-life mythologies have plenty of personality and "flaws".

 

[lin robinson]

What's the difference? Here's a book with god-like kings, another with king-like gods... is there a difference other than names?