Homophobia?

Discussion in 'Orson Scott Card' started by fifteenjugglers, Oct 30, 2006.

  1. Joel007

    Joel007 Shiny! Let's be bad guys.

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    Does "homophobic" mean an irrational fear of gays, as the word means, or has it been twisted to simply mean condemnation of their practices?
     
  2. mosaix

    mosaix Shropshire, U.K.

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    Just be true to your beliefs and principles. If people don't like it - tough. For every one that would hold it against you there will be one who would buy because you are an atheist - me for one. Just let me know the title and I'll be down the bookshop pronto! Us atheists have to stick together. :)
     
  3. The Pelagic Argosy

    The Pelagic Argosy Well-Known Member

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    Excellent!

    I think we need a secret handshake.
     
  4. mosaix

    mosaix Shropshire, U.K.

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    Too late, I think our secret is out!
     
  5. steve12553

    steve12553 The Enigma of Steel

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    Wow this thread is really going all over the place. (Partly my fault?). Joel, as to your question, I think the answer is yes and no depending on where in the thread you read. As to the secret handshake society, I've recently come to thing of that as the religion with no god. My understanding of the definition of atheism is a disbelief in the existence of God. At times I felt that way at other time I felt a strong belief in a supreme diety. Today I have my doubts one way or the other. I see the wrongs commited in the name of religion but I don't think I am smart enough to know enough to rule out any sort of diety. I'm gonna take a wait and see policy.
     
  6. mosaix

    mosaix Shropshire, U.K.

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    My view is that no belief is the norm and that belief is aquired. Therefore the 'disbelief' or 'religion' don't enter into it.

    It's a bit like being or not being a supporter of, say, cricket. We aren't born being cricket supporters but some people get interested and become fans. Those that don't aren't described in 'cricket' terms as 'non-crickets supporters' because that is the default state.

    As for 'religion with no god' I prefer 'no religion' and as for 'disbelief in the existance of god' I prefer 'don't believe god exists'. There is a difference. Your definitions imply that belief is the default state and somehow that atheists opt out. I think it is the other way around. :)
     
  7. Redhawk

    Redhawk Always and never changing

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    Weellllll....you might be right...I may be playing the "What if game" in my own pea brain...

    But, I figure the Lesbians won't (or at least a goodly portion of them) like that Dante is Male through most of the book or for the first book...(It started out as a single book..but ahhh...it's looking more and more like two would be better..maybe..lmao) Then, in the second part Dante becomes Dani/f while Laurel (f in the first) stays f in the second...called Suzanne. The first part takes place in the Middle Ages, the second in "Modern Day/now" Both parts have fairly graphic sex....after all part of the story is that they are deeply in love with each other enough so that they come together in their bond both spiritually and physically over time.

    The hard core bible thumpers will be pissed that they are having sex at all and then that part of the time they are two women, some Lesbians (assuming they are on the "high moral road") that part of the time one of the characters is not only male, but really good at what he does with his beloved...(tongue in cheek...straight males would probably love it best...since the first part shows men as capable of being very proficient...and then too because many are...hmmm fairly interested in what goes on between two women in love)

    Who knows...if I make fun of it in my head first...maybe I'll jinx-proof it...:rolleyes:
    I can't count my covers till they're drawn.:p
     
  8. the_faery_queen

    the_faery_queen Well-Known Member

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    but are these people likely to read your book? i was worried about the same thing, mostly ailenaiting homophobic fantasy readers (of whcih i am sure there are some) or just those who don't like male on male lovin, as my stuff always has that (and i have had some emails from people who didn't like it, including a gay man who said only gay men should write gay sex) but my theory was, dont' like it, don't read it! you can't please everyone. and even if you write something that isn't altnerative in any way, not everyone will like it. i don't like tolkein or rowling. you just have to write what is right for you and see what happens :) cos for every person who hates that sort of thing, you will probably find one who likes it
     
  9. Redhawk

    Redhawk Always and never changing

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    You have a perfect point...Originally I was going to market it towards the Lesbian story publishers....but now I'll just finish it and put it out there and hope for the best...stranger things have happened! (and won't I "owe" the many wonderful editorial helpers HERE a big fat credit, if the sucker does get picked up...and even if it doesn't in my opinion!) Folks here are so very kind and giving with their knowledge!
     
  10. the_faery_queen

    the_faery_queen Well-Known Member

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    :) good luck with it. im sure it will get accepted. mine was (with small print, granted) and after that i think anything can! :)
     
  11. mosaix

    mosaix Shropshire, U.K.

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    Sorry to dig out such an old thread but there is a letter in New Scientist 13th January 2007 page 19, from Roy Sablosky of Maryland US that I think expresses my views more eloquently than I can. I quote:

    "An atheist simply does not believe in any gods. By definition this is not a belief. Just as nakedness is not a way of getting dressed; sleep is not a technique for paying attention; sunlight is not a kind of shade (nor even its opposite): atheism simply means that one has no religious beliefs. Even to call it a 'non-belief' is perhaps misleading. After all when you are feeling comfortable you don't call it 'non-pain'. Many believers literally cannot imagine that atheism is possible. But millions of us enjoy it - all day every day."
     
  12. HoopyFrood

    HoopyFrood Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in fer me

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    Absolutely!

    Sorry to be so succinct, but otherwise I'd just be repeating the quote! All I can say is...I concur :D
     
  13. Fnord_Lord

    Fnord_Lord New Member

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    I don't see why an author's political philosophy has to matter at all. I loved every one of Arthur C. Clarke's and Carl Sagan's books that I read, even though they were athiests and were somewhat outspoken in thier low opinion of Christianity. But so what? They could still tell a good sci-fi yarn.

    When I turn on the radio in my car and start flipping stations, if I hear a song I like, then I leave it there. I don't really care what the artists's personal views are, if they can make some good music, that's all that matters.

    Books shouldn't be taken so personally.
     
  14. WizardofOwls

    WizardofOwls King of Typos

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  15. the smiling weirwood

    the smiling weirwood Axes and Saws Prohibited

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    I never found out about his personal beliefs until I started reading the Alvin Maker series.
    I think the Ender's Game series is pretty neutral, and if you don't read it you're missing out, but his Alvin Maker and Homecoming series are both pretty obvious soapboxes.
     
  16. dustinzgirl

    dustinzgirl Mod of Awesome

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    I do not think Orson is homophobic. A homophobic person, by definition, is afraid of homosexuality. Orson seems very rational in his explanation of why he disagrees with the homosexual activity and lifestyle and so forth. Please do not interpret that to mean that I agree with him. I am simply saying that he is rational in his explanations. Which would be the opposite of being fearful.

    I will confess that I am a bit of a homophobic person myself. I do not want this to be interpreted that I dislike individuals who are homosexual or that I am biased against them, because I inherently believe that persons who have same sex relationships are entitled to the same benefits and lives and goodies that persons who have opposite sex relationships. That is not what I mean to say. What I mean to say is that for me, personally, it is very hard to watch two men acting out a relationship on television or in person. It makes my stomach go all icky. However, I do not have the same problem watching two women. I do not know why this is.

    I also have a serious problem with male transvestites, they actually scare me, and I mean as in turn the other way while walking down the street kind of scared. This is not an emotion or feeling I am proud of, because I believe in free will and individuality and freedom of expression. It is a simple fact of my nature. That does not mean that I would be hateful or biased or racist or whatever towards these individuals, but that I do have a negative feeling in my head and body when presented with individuals who are male that dress like females that I repress. It is basically the same feeling I have with spiders, just an all over creepy icky tummy scared feeling.

    This is an internal, emotional problem that I have within myself. It does not mean that I dislike these particular individuals, but that my internal process is impacted by seeing these particular individuals. (lol...anyone seen Idiocracy?)

    I have worked with, went to school with, and am still good friends with, and my hubby occasionally works for, homosexual individuals and couples. I have explained this to them and one guy who I went to high school said:

    "That is exactly how I feel when watching a man and a woman make out."

    PS: I hope that this doesn't offend anyone. I am just trying to explain how I feel when confronted with certain situations. That does not mean that I act on those feelings, because there is a difference between feeling something and doing something, and I don't have a right to oppress or dictate or project my feelings upon others, as all others have the same rights I do.
     
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  17. KESpires

    KESpires wordwatchers.boards.net

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    I doubt he's a homophobe. And I respect that he is perfectly comfortable saying what he believes, which causes him a lot of flack.
     
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  18. Alex Mason

    Alex Mason Loremaster

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    Instead of asking some people's opinions about some other people's opinions having to do with a certain writer's opinions as reflected in his writings, why don't you just read one of his books and see for yourself?
     
  19. Alex Mason

    Alex Mason Loremaster

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    oh, you aren't going to be able to read much of what has been written. I would say almost every person writing before 1960 was at least mildly sexist and racist. Anything before the 20th century (with few exceptions) would be written by racists and sexists, at the least.
     
  20. iansales

    iansales Well-Known Member

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    No, Orson Scott Card is a homophobe. He has written op-ed pieces for newspapers against homosexuality, he works for and promotes an organisation with an anti-gay agenda, and his novella Hamlet's Father links homosexuality with paedophilia. See here for more information on his homophobia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orson_Scott_Card#Homosexuality
     
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