6.15: As You Were

[obcooke]

Episode 6.15 As You Were

Riley returns to Sunnydale and he's not alone. Meanwhile, the wedding approaches.

 

[obcooke]

When Riley says that as soon as they kill the demon, they need to catch up on what they have been doing lately.

Buffy: Did you die?

Riley: No.

Buffy: Then, I'm gonna win.

 

[obcooke]

You know I didn't say anything about The Master, but if they're going to start calling Spike, the Doctor, I think that the Dr. Who people might be able to sue them.

 

[Highlander II]

geez - the show's only been over for 7 minutes!


but - oh i so hope they don't start calling Spike "the Doctor" -- i'm kinda partial to 'Big Bad' myself --- and he doesn't need a nickname - he has one - Spike! (his real name is William!)

i'm not entirely sure i understand why they brought Riley back - just to do it - or what? it does kinda seque into Buffy and Spike's break-up, and the wedding - but that could have almost been done w/ anyone --- but - i guess it worked --

i just don't really like Riley -- he's just arrogant - or he comes across that way to me ---

but, by far, the best scene in the ep --- Riley walks in, and not-at-all-modest Spike sits up, tosses the covers away and gives Riley an eye-full! just toooooo funny! oh - and he oh so slowly decides to get up and grab his pants -- classic Spike!!

i'll watch it again and maybe i won't be laughing at the funny parts so much and can give more analysis ----

 

[gloom_cookie]

am I the only one with a broken heart?

I loved the whole Buffy/Spike thing.

 

[tokyogirl]

ok, here's my thoughts:

first of all, did anyone else notice the very end, when she called him william? first time EVER. that's the part that keeps bugging me. it's almost like she......well, ok. she's felt like she's been using him for a long time. it's easier with him than with some one else because with some one else there's the danger of getting attatched. spike's already attatched, and she doesn't think there's anyway she could ever love him. but deep down she knows this is wrong. she could put off her guilt because he was a vampire so it didn't matter. but i think in the end when she called him william it showed that she actually respected him in a way. i think she finally came to terms with him. she doesn't blame him for what he does or what he is anymore. when riley told her she was an amazing woman, no matter the circumstances, she made her deciscion. she realized that she's been running from things, from life, for a long time, since way before her death. i think she finally realized that it's time to stop hiding and time to start facing things. i really like how they have her stepping out into the sunlight at the end. very symbolic.

 

[Highlander II]

this wasn't the first time she's called him William --

she called him that in 'No Place Like Home' (the episode right after 'out of my mind') -- just b4 the 'out. for. a. walk.... b*tch.' speech ---

of course there - she said it w/ more, i don't wanna say 'malice', but it was harsh -

at the end of this episode - she said it w/ more of a 'this is your real name, and i see you as a man, and not a vampire, tho i know that's what you are' -- something along the lines of respect, yes - but not the 1st time she's used his given name -

i loved the scene at the end - if you watch Spike's face -
up until Buffy says '...and it's killing me,' he's more than ready to talk her out of the break up -- she tells him that, and his entire face melts -- and he can't think of anything to say (and we all know he's normally very talkative) -- he just stands there, listening to what she's saying - why? b/c he doesn't want her to get hurt - that's always been his 'motive' - he doesn't want to see Buffy in pain -- (see end scene from "Intervention") -

James is so good w/ facial expression - his character doesn't have to speak for you to understand what he's feeling or what he might 'want' to say --- it's excellent --


my problem w/ this episode was - How the heck did Riley know Spike had the eggs????????

we see nothing of Riley's investigation -- so what? did Willie the snitch know something? did Riley beat up some demon who was planning to buy the eggs? what? i'm confused -- and i don't like these stupid unanswered questions -- Riley doesn't have ESP - so HOW did he know?? grrrrr

 

[Highlander II]

Re: am I the only one with a broken heart?

Originally posted by gloom_cookie
I loved the whole Buffy/Spike thing.

to answer your question -- 'am i the only one w/ a broken heart?' -

maybe --

i was never into the Buffy / Spike thing -- i'm not a shipper -

was it sad what she did to Spike? yeah - but she was right - and whether he minded being used or not - it was still 'wrong' (in Buffy's opinion), she couldn't feel good about herself knowing that she was having this secret affair of unrequited love and not be able to tell her friends -- and she was starting to feel the effects of not 'being there' for Dawn --

so - yes - it was a very touching scene at the end - but necessary - there is NO way for Buffy and Spike to work - why? b/c Spike is BAD! he's evil - always was, always will be (and we're not counting the time he was a bad poet - he could have been evil then too - but i don't think he was) - Spike is not the right person for Buffy --

honestly - i'd actually like to see Buffy have a season w/o a boyfriend, or a season or a few episodes w/ a 'normal' boyfriend -- and i mean a real normal guy - not a gov't guy who's pretending to be normal ---

tho - i know it would be hard for Buffy to have a normal relationship b/c of who she is and where she lives ---

 

[Highlander II]

i know - 3rd post in a row - but gotta keep 'em separate -

i had another thought hit me --

have we ever seen Spike 'pleasure reading' before?

When Buffy comes to see him, allegedly asking about the 'Doctor', he's sitting on that bier and reading - i have NO idea what tho - just reading --- not really a 'Spike' activity --- he's generally watching tv --- but since "Gone" - and the Buffy-Spike tornado, the tv might be broken ----

 

[tokyogirl]

ok, in response to gloom_cookie's question, no you're not the only one. i'm really sad that the whole spike/buffy thing doesn't seem to be working out right now. but if she doesn't love him right now, then she really shouldn't keep leading him on. and i think H2 is right, the only reason spike gave up on trying to convince her to stay with him was because she told him being with him was killing her. she couldn't handle doing to him what she was, hiding from her friends, and running from her problems anymore. but i do think that once she works out some of her problems they will get back together. but maybe that's just wishful thinking.

also, the scene where buffy's breaking things off with spike, i kept think of that new garbage song 'breaking up the girl'. if you haven't heard it it's a really good song, and it kind of fits with that scene. download it if you can.

 

[Highlander II]

okay- (and this is my opinion) Spike and Buffy won't work - Spike is evil - plain and simple - he loves Buffy - okay, but she can't / won't love him b/c he's evil - she knows that - she said it several times in this episode ---

if he were to ever get the chip out of his head - guess what? he's gonna go after someone - could be the slayer - could be Xander - we don't know --- he'll go after someone - he's evil --


as evidenced by the egg stealing/hiding thing --

i'm still trying to figure out what his 'big bad' plan is -- where is Spike going??

and yes - i LOVE evil Spike! :evil:

 

[tokyogirl]

i think spike is great either way. when most shows have a character change from good to evil or visa versa (and no, i'm not saying spike is totally good now), the character loses whatever it was that made you like them in the first place. but i think they've done a good job of keeping the edge that makes spike great. they've just redirected it.

 

[MythingLink]

I'm in a rush today, but I just wanted to throw this out.

My feeling for why Buffy called Spike "William" at the end was to show him that she was serious and to show him respect. She wanted to talk to William (knowing he's in there somewhere) and is hoping that it will be William who will convince Spike that what she is doing is for the good of both of them and that 'he isn't beneath her', but an equal.

Cheers,

 

[Highlander II]

oh, i agree - he got the chip in his head, but they kept the 'basic' Spike in place -- and he moved into the 'scooby' world b/c they kept bringing him in --

sure - they had him tied up in "The Initiative" - but later they would come across him in an alley and ask him questions - the ep w/ Faith (forgot title, sorry); then Buffy always goes to him when she wants information - in 'Real Me' she wants to know where Harmony would be hiding, (that's the 1st time we see B go to the crypt and punch Spike for info); and she keeps going to him - when she's looking for Riley, when she wants to know how he killed the 2 slayers, when she wants someone to protect Dawn and her mother, when she wants someone to protect Dawn later, when she needs someone to get them out of Dodge, when she needs someone to help fight Glory -- the list goes on and on -- if they hadn't asked Spike for help, he probably would already be on the road to some big bad *get the slayer out of my way so i can be evil* plan - or he would have gotten staked / dusted / whatever --

he's always maintained that he's 'evil' - he doesn't say it as often as he did when he first got out of the Initiative, but he still makes sure everyone remembers -- and for the most part they do, but there are the occasional slips - then they remember again --

the Scoobies know he's 'bad' and most of them refuse to let Spike into the 'friend' circle - tho some will show smidges of compassion toward him -- ie: in "Forever" when he brought the flowers and Xander gave him the 3rd degree, and Willow pointed out that he didn't leave a card - kinda made Xander feel stupid, but i'm sure he maintained his *yeah, but Spike's still and evil vampire* - however, Willow, a little more compassionate - but that's her nature -

Dawn - i think she still thinks Spike is cool - but we don't know b/c the writers never tell us --

Tara - she's the one that confuses me - one day she hates Spike the next day, she's more indifferent, then in "Dead Things" she was kind of making an argument for him -- not really sure where she stands on the whole "Spike" thing --

Buffy - she's inconsistent in everything anyway - so why would she be consistent on this? she's always telling Spike that he can't love b/c he doesn't have a soul - well, that's not true - one doesn't need a soul to love - b/c technically - you love w/ your head -- (now we can get into the whole, 'vamps are dead and don't have brains' thing, but there has to be something making them move around - so, for the sake of argument) -- anyway - Spike loved Dru - so, why can't he love Buffy, except that she doesn't want him to? ah -- that's it --- she doesn't want him to, therefore he can't -- weird logic, huh? (and this is all just my interpretation)

okay - think i'll stop there for now ---

 

[tokyogirl]

the ep w/ Faith (forgot title, sorry);

what?!? YOU forgot the title to an ep? you're usually the one who remembers for ME! who do i turn to now?


anyways, i think i might get the whole tara thing. though we all know she's not a demon, she grew up for most of her life thinking she was. i mean, let's say tara's 20. she only found out she wasn't a demon in the past year or 2, and 2:18 is a big difference in year ratios. i think at first she didn't like spike because she just made that automatic 'he's a vampire' generalization. but i think the more he hangs around, and the more she gets to know about him, i think the more she can relate to him. growing up she lived with the knowledge that she was supposed to be evil. that one day she would have to be kept at home in order to protect others from her. she couldn't change that. no matter how good a person she was, not matter what she did she was still inately evil. i guess she kind of relates to him not being able to mesh the two sides of his life.

 

[Highlander II]

yeah - i forgot- i think it's 'This Year's Girl' or 'Who Are You' - one of those --

anyway --

MythingLink
My feeling for why Buffy called Spike "William" at the end was to show him that she was serious and to show him respect. She wanted to talk to William (knowing he's in there somewhere) and is hoping that it will be William who will convince Spike that what she is doing is for the good of both of them and that 'he isn't beneath her', but an equal.

yeah - that's what i said - she called him "William" to show respect for the 'man' that still resides somewhere in there w/ the demon.

William said he was a 'good man' - i wonder if, somewhere, Spike still believes that - it would explain why he doesn't want to see Buffy 'in pain' - b/c William is still a 'good man,' even tho Spike is an evil demon -

 

[MythingLink]

I can't remember for sure so I may be passing along false info, but someone mentioned on one of the mailing lists that the only other time that Buffy called Spike William{/i] was in the episode where Spike had his dream that he loved her. Interesting if true.

 

[Highlander II]

nope - it's in the episode after that - "No Place Like Home" (see about 11 posts back --

goes like this:

Buffy: Spike, what are you doing here?
Spike: <makes like he's gonna say something>
Buffy: Five words or less.
Spike: Out. For. A. Walk.... B*tch. <with a LOT of attitude>
Buffy: 'Out for a walk' at night by my house. <annoyed> No one has time for this William.

Then Spike goes into the bit about 'shagging captain cardboard' etc etc ------

as far as i know, that's the only other time she calls him that - every other time - it's just Spike -

However, in this case (NPLH) she didn't mean it as a form of respect - she was, maybe, trying to insult him, or remind him of what he used to be - ie: he's not human anymore and lurking about outside her house is not going to impress her -- something along those lines ---

 

[Highlander II]

Buffy and UC Sunnydale ---

hey --- did anyone READ the letter Buffy had in her hands from UCS?? it said they rejected her application, but the next line said something about it needing to be in by January 15, 2002 -- so, does this mean that she just got her application in late? Or that she isn't accepted b/c of other things -- b/c she got in b4, why would she not qualify now? usually 'readmission' isn't as difficult as the 1st go -- esp considering the circumstances of her departure --

so - i'm wondering - is she gonna try again? or was this Joss' way of telling the fans that Buffy's given up on school and is gonna work at Double Meat Palace forever? b/c if she doesn't go back to school, she's probably gonna be stuck there for a while -


and how old is Dawn? 15? she'll be 16 soon, right? she can get a work permit, right? (it may vary by state) -- she can get an afterschool job and help w/ the money -- b/c i have the feeling that DMP does not pay near enough to keep the bills paid at Summers House ---- that's a little bit of a stretch --

 

[tokyogirl]

well for the next little bit she's going to be working at the magic shop to pay off the stuff she stole.