Vessel based "military" sci-fi

[WriterJosh]

My favorite kind of televised sci-fi has always been in the vein of shows like Star Trek, but to be honest, the bloom has come off the rose there. The basic setting is still my favorite, but the ideas behind it and the execution have left me behind.

Here's the structure I like: starship-based storytelling featuring a military or pseudo-military crew as principle characters, many of whom are on a personal journey of their own.

The remade Battlestar: Galactica is a good example of using that structure to good effect. To a degree (though I wasn't crazy about the lack of military unit structure) Firefly and Farscape also qualified. Babylon Five is another favorite, but mainly for its story arcs.

I've been looking for books in the sci-fi genre that also use this structure. The Honor Harrington books came pretty close, but I couldn't really get into the first book. I also think the Expanse series by James SA Corey might fall into that category.

I'm wondering if there's more, and what would be recommended.

Turn-off's include: a focus on just one character, especially if they start turning into a "Mary-Sue"; focus on planet-side action rather than the goings-on on board the ship, a focus on the marines to the exclusion of the shipboard crew, etc.

I also prefer "low-tech" approaches. TVTropes calls it "used future". I like that atmosphere. Star Trek is too clean and bright, and their starships are like floating hotels. However, if the story and characters are good, I can overlook that to a degree.

(note: Aliens are not a must. In fact, I almost prefer strictly human vs. human conflict. That said, if they're used to good effect aliens are fine.)

 

[Dave]

I know this is in books, but I assume you have watched "Firefly" since I think you would like it. It ticks most of your boxes. Edit: didn't read your post properly (or maybe you edited it) sorry!

I'm sure someone else can help you better than me with books, but in books, I don't know of anything that focuses on the "Navy" aspects as much as you describe. For military, have you read "The Forever War" by Joe Haldeman? "Janissaries" by Jerry Pournelle?

 

[WriterJosh]

I know this is in books, but I assume you have watched "Firefly" since I think you would like it. It ticks most of your boxes. Edit: didn't read your post properly (or maybe you edited it) sorry!

I'm sure someone else can help you better than me with books, but in books, I don't know of anything that focuses on the "Navy" aspects as much as you describe. For military, have you read "The Forever War" by Joe Haldeman? "Janissaries" by Jerry Pournelle?

No, I haven't read either one (and Firefly was already there).

I understand The Forever War to be more in the vein of Starship Troopers; following one man on his army career. Am I wrong?

 

[Dave]

No, you are correct, it is more of a personal journey, but I think the military structure is accurate. It cover the effects of FTL travel time time dilation, with parallels to the Vietnam War. So, they are fighting for people who neither understand nor care about their sacrifices, while on each return home they feel more and more disconnected. Unable to fit into a society so altered from the one they left behind, they have no options other than to go back to the war they still understand again.

 

[ralphkern]

I think David Webers 'Honor Harrington' series sounds exactly what you are looking for. The first book is a bit of a departure from the rest. I urge you to give For the Honor of the Queen a try. It can be used as a starting point and is excellent.

Expanse isnt really a military sci fi. its ok, especially the first one. The Lost Fleet is ok as well but the captain is FAR to competant in it. Id just surrender if i saw him coming over the horizon, hes indesrucible which ruins the drama for me

 

[J-Sun]

Yeah, I was going to suggest Campbell's Lost Fleet, too, but my one concern was not over invincibility but over the OP saying "a focus on just one character" was a turn-off. Campbell definitely makes time for several characters but it is definitely not an ensemble cast, either. Otherwise, it fits to a 'T'.

I wouldn't suggest The Forever War for this, though - I'd suggest it for almost any reason generally, because it's great - but it's not very "naval" or even "para-naval".

Another suggestion would be a lot of Cherryh books, especially Alliance books - very little is "regular navy" but much is "para-naval". Pseudonaval? Anyway...

 

[Vince W]

Elizabeth Moon's Heris Serrano books might be something to check out. The series starts out with Hunting Party.

 

[Parson]

I think David Webers 'Honor Harrington' series sounds exactly what you are looking for. The first book is a bit of a departure from the rest. I urge you to give For the Honor of the Queen a try. It can be used as a starting point and is excellent.

Weber is my favorite author, and the Honor Harrington series my favorite of his work. But I would not advise starting with "For the Honor of the Queen." It is an excellent work, and it could stand alone, but it is so much richer if you have first read "On Basilisk Station." I'm not sure what Ralphkern is referring to here when he says that it "is a bit of a departure from the rest." It is the seminal effort, and in a very real sense the rest of the series demands OBS. The tone of OBS is somewhat different that the later books of the series, which is 14 deep, but is certainly cut from the same bolt of cloth as the first 4 of them including "For the Honor of the Queen." --- My favorite of the series follows one after "For the Honor of the Queen," "Field of Dishonor." "Field" absolutely demands OBS and without the two in between including "For the Honor of the Queen" something is definitely lost.

 

[Timba]

Weber is my favorite author, and the Honor Harrington series my favorite of his work. But I would not advise starting with "For the Honor of the Queen." It is an excellent work, and it could stand alone, but it is so much richer if you have first read "On Basilisk Station." I'm not sure what Ralphkern is referring to here when he says that it "is a bit of a departure from the rest." It is the seminal effort, and in a very real sense the rest of the series demands OBS. The tone of OBS is somewhat different that the later books of the series, which is 14 deep, but is certainly cut from the same bolt of cloth as the first 4 of them including "For the Honor of the Queen." --- My favorite of the series follows one after "For the Honor of the Queen," "Field of Dishonor." "Field" absolutely demands OBS and without the two in between including "For the Honor of the Queen" something is definitely lost.

What he said

 

[ralphkern]

Parsons I found it good, however the poster says they have tried it and not managed it. It is different from the others and is best viewed as a Prologue to the main story. For the Honour of the Queen is the starting point of the early main series conflict and therefore OBS is skippable. granted some of the subtlety will have gone from the overall story arc involving some of the secondary antagonists.

 

[WriterJosh]

What I found in OBS is that it went way overboard with the technobabble and had a lack of character development until way late in the book. Of course, I had also started a new job when I was reading it, and I may have been distracted. I still have it, and the next four books, so I'll have to give it another chance.

 

[ralphkern]

David Webers books harrington books are a real character investment. I would ot be surprised if in terms of sheer word count it was in the top 10 for fiction. I think there are about 20 odd books in the series including short story complilations.
I must admit to preferring the earlier ones though. I feel they have gotton rather labrynthian now in terms of politics and characters. Give me the good old days of the Peeps versus the Manties.

 

[Dr Zoidberg]

Did you watch Space: Above and Beyond?

It sounds like it would be right up your street.

 

[ralphkern]

Theres a self published dude, Richard Sanders whose written quite a good one, The Phoniex Conspiricy. I havnt read the rest of them but you can get the first part for free and its alright, so nothing to lose and its always good to support these chaps.

 

[Parson]

Parsons I found it good, however the poster says they have tried it and not managed it. It is different from the others and is best viewed as a Prologue to the main story. For the Honour of the Queen is the starting point of the early main series conflict and therefore OBS is skippable. granted some of the subtlety will have gone from the overall story arc involving some of the secondary antagonists.

I don't believe I could buy that OBS "is best viewed as a prologue to the main story." I would think that at least as far the as the "Peeps" story arc goes it really sets the tone for who the peeps are, what they stand for, and their basic weakness. Also, most of the secondary characters find a place in the psyche of the story series arc.

I will certainly agree that the poster did say that the Honor Harrington story did not click. So recommending "For the Honor of the Queen" made sense in that situation. But I was thinking of those who might wonder through these posts in time to come and think that OBS was not that important to the story arc of Honor Harrington, which I feel would be a serious mistake.

David Webers books harrington books are a real character investment. I would ot be surprised if in terms of sheer word count it was in the top 10 for fiction. I think there are about 20 odd books in the series including short story complilations.
I must admit to preferring the earlier ones though. I feel they have gotton rather labrynthian now in terms of politics and characters. Give me the good old days of the Peeps versus the Manties.

I would agree that the early ones gave me a gut clenching feel that the older ones do not do as much. (I love the word "labynthian" which I think describes the politics of the Honorverse very well.) As to the Peeps vs. Manties, it was purer back then, but as all relationships do, this relationship has also changed over time. It makes the Peeps more accessible and in a lot of ways a lot more interesting.

 

[neopeius]

Try Feintuch's "Hope" series. It is Napoleonic ship life in space. Very military, very proper. Actually quite good, too.

 

[ralphkern]

I forgot about them they are quite compelling

 

[Mirannan]

Hmmm... a few more. The Dahak trilogy, also by Weber, is stretching a point regarding being ship-based! But it really is rather good.

David Drake's Lt. Leary series, too. Finally, if you want an old classic try Voyage of the Space Beagle by van Vogt.

 

[ralphkern]

Sorry Parson I do not intend to turn this into a debate about the virtues of OBS and maybe to prevent the thread being distracted we should head on over to the author section? We both agree its a good series and I want to spread the good word. As such when the original poster said that he didnt get on with it i was suggesting Honour of the queen as a starting point of the main story, which it is. Much like the precredit bit of a James bond movie you lose some context and good stuff but you can still watch the movie and get a lot out of it.
The Peeps have always been accessible. In many ways I found Theisman,Tourville and Cachet to be the most interesting characters in the series. Theyre honourable, cool, decent people, face impossible odds. Whats more they pose a genuine, real and creadible threat to the Heroine of the piece. When Theisman or Tourville rock up the salamanders going to have a hard time of it Thats why I like the books, the amount of time and effort that is spent on developing the antagonists

 

[J-Sun]

Did you watch Space: Above and Beyond?

It sounds like it would be right up your street.

I love that show but he said he didn't want it focusing on the Marines, and SAAB is very Marines-focused. But when they aren't on land, sea, air, or small-craft space, they are on a big ship. And otherwise, it should suit, like you say.