H. Rider Haggard

[j d worthington]

H R Haggard: I'm afraid I've only seen the Hammer films (which I loved as a child, especially 'She'.) They never seem to show them on TV any more

Should I read his books? How does he compare with Arthur Conan Doyle and H G Wells (who I have read and are a similar period)?

On She and the movies (thank goodness Haggard didn't write such a tale!!!) -- iirc, before the end of the silent era, there had been 15 film versions of that particular tale; I think the only other story to see so many was Dickens' A Christmas Carol....

And if you enjoy Doyle and Wells, then I'd definitely suggest Haggard. I'd say he had more than a little influence on Doyle, for one thing; but more importantly, he was just (albeit not always) a damn' fine storyteller. And, as noted above, he created two of the most enduring characters in English fiction....

Since you mention the name, at some point I'd be interested in a discussion of the works of Abraham Merritt. He has an odd reputation, perhaps because he wasn't a real "starving artist". I think his stories aren't often taken seriously. But I enjoyed them when reading them as a lad on the recommendation of my Father. I'd be glad to revisit them.

If the proposed series of threads gets enough response, I'll be more than happy to go through that list -- for a start. And I would very much like to have some discussion about Merritt. No, he wasn't a starving artist, he was a businessman (much like ERB) when it came to his writing; but despite that and a tendency to get more than a little sticky with the romantic element at times, he, too, was a fine storyteller and wrote some exceptionably memorable pieces that any true fantasy connoisseur is likely to enjoy.

To date, I've only read Haggard's short fiction.

If that's the case, Teresa, I would imagine you've got some wonderful treats in store for you. The man was rather prolific, and a substantial amount of the books he wrote were at the very least entertaining; often much more than just that.

Dover also has a single-volume collection of King Solomon's Mines, She, and Allan Quatermain, I believe; and I know Wildside Press has several of his books listed in their catalogue:

Welcome to Wildside Press -

And I look forward to your input especially, Teresa, with your knowledge of and love for such older writers....

 

[j d worthington]

Oooops! One thing I meant to post earlier but forgot, is the Wiki entry on Haggard's works:

Henry Rider Haggard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As you can see, nearly all of them are available in some online form or other, with only 25 out of 78 not available at Gutenberg alone; though some of these are available elsewhere, such as Arthur's or Gutenburg Australia:

A - M, Project Gutenberg Australia free ebooks ebook etext etexts

 

[Toby Frost]

Well, for what it's worth I liked King Solomon's Mines and Allan Quartermain immensely. I suspect it's a serious influence on both science fiction and fantasy - a lot of pulp SF reads like Haggard in space (not to mention pulp adventure of the Indiana Jones school). Although he isn't modern by any means, Haggard comes across as a surprisingly decent sort of bloke for the era. His Africans are more than villains and comedy types, and as Ignosi's speech in King Solomon's Mines shows, Haggard can see things from their point of view too. Certainly one of the most readable "classic" authors I've ever happened upon.

 

[j d worthington]

Having read his Cetywayo and His WHITE NEIGHBOURS (yes, it is capitalized in the original), I can agree that he was quite willing to see blacks as people -- very unusual for that time and place. He didn't see them as "noble savages", but as human beings, with all the faults and virtues of the species. Which didn't entirely keep him from having a somewhat superior attitude at times, but it was a distinct advance over the bulk of writers of the period. And, of course, part of that was due to his personal experience in Africa at the time, as well....

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I started reading King Solomon's Mines last night, and was struck by how very modern his style is for a writer of the period.

It's amusing how the first person narrative gives away so much about the character of Alan Quatermain, even when (and he spends a lot of time explaining himself in the first chapter) he doesn't seem to be aware that he's doing it. Very cleverly done.

 

[j d worthington]

It's true; Haggard's style is much more modern than many of his contemporaries. And yes, he was very good at such techniques. Incidentally, I'd argue that such characters as Allan Quatermain and Horace Holly (from She, etc.) had some influence on the character of Michael Moorcock's Oswald Bastable....

 

[Snowdog]

I've read half-a-dozen of Haggard's books, and may have read more that I've forgotten because I know I borrowed a lot from the library back in the early '70s. They weren't listed as SF or fantasy at the time and were definitely in the category of adventure. The ones I've read relatively recently are She, King Solomon's Mines, Allan Quatermain, Red Eve and Montezuma's Daughter.

I've got Eric Brighteyes and When The World Shook sitting on my shelves unread.

 

[AE35Unit]

Well i'd be interested JD! I've not read any HRH but I have King Solomon's Mines on my shelf and may just read it next! But just how diverse is HRH?

 

[j d worthington]

Well i'd be interested JD! I've not read any HRH but I have King Solomon's Mines on my shelf and may just read it next! But just how diverse is HRH?

Most of his books would, I think, fall under the heading of adventure novels, or "romances" in the older sense of the term, but by no means all fit that category. He also wrote some pieces that were more humorous, as well as political writing, social novels, etc. But his most well-known (and, I'd say, most artistically successful) were what we'd call the fantasy adventure novels, "lost race" stories, and the like. He (in collaboration with Andrew Lang) even did a sequel, as it were, to The Odyssey -- quite a good book, too: The World's Desire.

I'd strongly suggest reading at least King Solomon's Mines and She, which will let you see how you like his style and his storytelling....

 

[Wiglaf]

He seems to do an awful lot of explaining at the beginning of KSM. However, stopping to explain a word or point seems common in stories of the time. I will have to get past the first two chapters before I can compare it to Doyle's The Lost World. I need something to read while searching for my lost copy of Kim.

 

[Lobolover]

Im not into adventure,but I realy wanna read "She" sometime.

 

[Wiglaf]

I liked Quartermain's motivation for going in King Solomon's Mines. I would do some crazy s*** myself if I considered it the best/only way to provide for my kid's future. In fact, for two of the three men on the expedition, family was the motivating factor. Too often the motivation is riches, fame, or to save the world.

 

[j d worthington]

Yes, I quite like Quatermain. He's not by any means your typical "hero" of an adventure tale. I've just been reading two shorter tales featuring him that appeared between King Solomon's Mines and She: "Hunter Quatermain's Tale" and "Long Odds". Not fantasy in themselves (though Quatermain does have his share of quite fantastic adventures over the course of all the books Haggard wrote about him), but quite good stories, nonetheless....

 

[Wiglaf]

A combination of Quartermain with a sword and Doyle's use of dialog to quickly imply the action could improve many modern fantasy adventures.

 

[Connavar]

I have finally started reading King Solomon's Mines and i'm enjoying it so far. It might be a slow read at first cause of how much Quartermain explains about the story he is telling.

I like Allan Quartermain himself, he is very interesting,not typical of his times,not typical hero of adventure story. An old,poor trader,traveller. His reasons for going with Sir Curtis,Captain Good is admirable. The fatalist thing he said made smile about dying naturally or by danger is the same thing.

I like Haggard writing style and how he does the characters specially the African blacks and the setting of the story. He writes about Zulu,other people that work for the main characters with respect.

 

[j d worthington]

He could be paternalistic enough at times, but having known (and fought) the Zulus personally, he often showed a good deal more respect for blacks than many writers of his generation....

 

[Connavar]

His attitude,views in the books is understandable then knowing that. It was a bit surprise reading a man from that century explaining he didnt like the N-word in the first pages. Not much noble savage talk either.

It makes Allan Quartermain more interesting seeing as the setting isnt special to him since he has been in Africa for so long.

I have high hopes for the rest of the story. Cause its well written,fun story specially for a first person narrative that can be a bit slow at times in certain type of books.

Have you read Nada the Lily and Eric Brighteyes ?
They sound very promising.

 

[GOLLUM]

I've got those other books Conn but never read them. I read Solomon's Mine when I was young and it has reminded one of my favorite adventure stories of all time. I'm actually reminded quite a lot of my favourite pulp author and man of action two-gun Bob...

I've also read She, which JD mentions. I would be surprised if the latter novels ever surpass King Solomon's Mines...A recognised Classic!!

A point of interest....Solmon's Mines apparently influenced Lovecraft's Mountains Of Madness. I bet J.D. can fill in the gaps for us there. Meant to be the foundation of the Lost World sub-genre, so think Doyle, Kipling and Burroughs.

 

[j d worthington]

I think She comes a bit closer to that than King Solomon's Mines, but both share something of the same idea -- just that She's civilization dates back a good few millennia. I'd also say it really is a better, more polished and finished work than King Solomon's Mines, more balanced overall; and certainly Ayesha is an unforgettable figure. Quatermain and Ayesha remained Haggard's most striking creations, and he even brought them together in a later novel, She and Allan (which, like Wisdom's Daughter, is a prequel to She).

As for the Lovecraft connection... I've never come across that before, and frankly I seriously doubt that being the case. Lovecraft's comments on She were remarkably sparse (though favorable), and as far as I know, there's no evidence been brought to light which connects the two.

I've not read either of those yet, Connavar, though I have Eric Brighteyes and have been on the lookout for Nada the Lily. If nothing else, nearly all of Haggard's work is available online, so when I get to that point in his bibliography, I can at least read the thing, if not own it.

 

[Connavar]

Just like Imaro by Charles.R Saunders i have a inborn interest in reading good stories about African heroes,set in Africa. Alternate Africa or real one.

Nada the Lily i will get in book form after this Quartermain books. She,Brighteyes,other Quartermain books sound good too. She have sold 85 million copies at least i read. Wow i didnt know Haggard was that big. In today market that might be easier with some bestsellers but for this type of author...