H. Rider Haggard

[j d worthington]

Given my frequent harping on how I see fantasy too often narrowed down to the faux-mediaeval (or whatever historical period a piece emulates), quest to save the world, etc. sort of thing often referred to as "post-Tolkien", I thought it might be a good idea to begin a series of threads on various masters/mistresses of classic fantasy, to indicate (yet once again) how truly broad a field fantasy has been and can still be.

However, not knowing whether such will garner any responses, I've decided to put a "test thread" out there and see how it goes; and for such thread, I've chosen one of the classic writers of adventure fantasy, Sir Henry Rider Haggard, creator of "She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed", Allan Quatermain, and Eric Brighteyes (among others); one of the greatest of the writers of the "lost race" adventures, influence on Merritt, Howard, ERB, and numerous other writers of the fantasy field (including, one might argue, Tolkien, to some degree), and someone many of whose books have almost consistently remained in print for more than a century now.

So... do we have anyone up for a discussion of Haggard's work? Or does the proposed series of threads simply stop here....?

 

[HoopyFrood]

I can't discuss Haggard's work (having no knowledge of it) but I just thought I'd say that I'd be interested in seeing such threads. The more 'high fantasy' that I read, although I do enjoy it, the more I realise I have quite a few gripes with it. As you say, fantasy is much more than just medieval settings, swinging swords, kingdoms etc...so yes, I'd be interested in seeing what pops up in these threads.

 

[j d worthington]

Thanks, Hoops.

And for those interested, here's a listing (in alphabetical, rather than chronological, order) of Haggard's fantasies (as compiled by Jessica Almanda Salmonson):

Violet Books: Haggard bibliography

as well as this one, from isfdb:

H. Rider Haggard - Summary Bibliography

 

[Connavar]

J.D you can count on me. I want get away from High Fantasy talk too. I enjoy classic fantasy and any fantasy that is different and good.

I have already read many of Haggard era. I plan to read him too.


Gotta see what i can find.

 

[j d worthington]

Well, for those not averse to reading on the screen, here's a site that provides several of his books (courtesy of Teresa Edgerton, who first pointed me in this direction):

H. Rider Haggard Stories : Arthur's Classic Novels

 

[Pyan]

I discovered and devoured King Solomon's Mines far longer ago than I care to remember...marvellous book. I'm in as well, j.d.

 

[GOLLUM]

Well, well I'm currently collecting many of Haggard's work through the Ballantine series from the '70s. Nice timing...

 

[j d worthington]

Connavar, Pyan, GOLLUM: Great! Glad to hear it! I'd like to get some discussions going on older fantasy writers, whether or no they belong to "high fantasy" (some would argue that at least a portion of Haggard does, but I'm not sure I'm quite in that camp). Writers like Eddison, Cabell, Morris, Mirrlees (at least with Lud-in-the-Mist), Dunsany, Merritt, C. L. Moore (and, of course, Kuttner), Leslie Barringer, Kenneth Morris, E. C. Vivian, etc., etc., etc. Perhaps even such as Talbot Mundy....

Mr. G: Which Ballantine series are you talking about? The Adult Fantasy series done under Lin Carter, or the Ballantine/Del Rey books put out in the later 1970s and 1980s? As I recall, only two of Haggard's books made it into the first, but the Ballantine/Del Rey line put out several others. (Zebra also issued some around that period, along with their reissues of Mundy's Tros of Samothrace and the Howard -- and Co. -- they were doing.)

 

[GOLLUM]

Mr. G: Which Ballantine series are you talking about? The Adult Fantasy series done under Lin Carter, or the Ballantine/Del Rey books put out in the later 1970s and 1980s? As I recall, only two of Haggard's books made it into the first, but the Ballantine/Del Rey line put out several others. (Zebra also issued some around that period, along with their reissues of Mundy's Tros of Samothrace and the Howard -- and Co. -- they were doing.)

Yes you're right about the Adult Balantine series. I'm collecting the earlier Ballantine series with Lin Carter but as you say they don't have many Haggards. I was referring more to the Newcastle Library series, which has quite a number of Haggard's works. I'm also collecting that series or at least the books represented.

 

[Taltos]

Jdw - I'd be interested in Haggard discussion as well - I've read King Solomon's Mines, Montezuma's Daughter and Queen Sheeba's Ring at some point, but have to admit that I only recall the events of Solomons Mines and nothing about the two other novels
Strange ... I'll have to find the other books and recall what they were about.

 

[Nesacat]

I first read King's Solomon's Mines in a magazine called Look and Learn when I was little. It was an illustrated serial and I can still very clearly remember those black and white images. I've read it several times since but it was that original serial that put me on Haggard's trail.

Aside from this the ones I like best are the books with 'She'.

I'll go home and start in on a re-read of the books I have and will be happy to contribute to this discussion when I can.

 

[Connavar]

Connavar, Pyan, GOLLUM: Great! Glad to hear it! I'd like to get some discussions going on older fantasy writers, whether or no they belong to "high fantasy" (some would argue that at least a portion of Haggard does, but I'm not sure I'm quite in that camp). Writers like Eddison, Cabell, Morris, Mirrlees (at least with Lud-in-the-Mist), Dunsany, Merritt, C. L. Moore (and, of course, Kuttner), Leslie Barringer, Kenneth Morris, E. C. Vivian, etc., etc., etc. Perhaps even such as Talbot Mundy....

Mr. G: Which Ballantine series are you talking about? The Adult Fantasy series done under Lin Carter, or the Ballantine/Del Rey books put out in the later 1970s and 1980s? As I recall, only two of Haggard's books made it into the first, but the Ballantine/Del Rey line put out several others. (Zebra also issued some around that period, along with their reissues of Mundy's Tros of Samothrace and the Howard -- and Co. -- they were doing.)

I dont have anything against High Fantasy, i have read and enjoyed several mostly older works ei classics. I just think your disription of todays HF fits too well for my taste.

I think i like older fantasy cause its more fantastic,imagination,original worlds. You cant complain about pseudo medevil worlds in many older fantasy.


I have looked forward to talking about Kuttner, hope one of these threads is about him. I find his S&S perfect for my taste in adventure fantasy.

 

[Taltos]

I have looked forward to talking about Kuttner, hope one of these threads is about him. I find his S&S perfect for my taste in adventure fantasy.

Interesting is, how people see different authors - for me Kuttner is SF or horror author - stories about Hogbens, Gallagher, novel Fury etc. for SF and some classic horror stories.

 

[j d worthington]

All right... so we have at least three people (four, including myself) who have read King Solomon's Mines. (And I'm due for a reread in the next couple of weeks.) So why don't we start (while not restricting) the discussion there....?

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Well, for those not averse to reading on the screen, here's a site that provides several of his books (courtesy of Teresa Edgerton, who first pointed me in this direction):]

Actually, it's a good site for those who are averse to reading things on the screen, too -- so long as they don't mind spending the paper and ink. I've lost track of the number of novels and short stories I've printed up from Arthur's.

However, I would think that most library systems in the UK, US, Canada, or Australia would carry some of these titles. Probably some bookstores, as well. For those in Europe there's no telling.

 

[Dave]

H R Haggard: I'm afraid I've only seen the Hammer films (which I loved as a child, especially 'She'.) They never seem to show them on TV any more

Should I read his books? How does he compare with Arthur Conan Doyle and H G Wells (who I have read and are a similar period)?

 

[clovis-man]

Connavar, Pyan, GOLLUM: Great! Glad to hear it! I'd like to get some discussions going on older fantasy writers, whether or no they belong to "high fantasy" (some would argue that at least a portion of Haggard does, but I'm not sure I'm quite in that camp). Writers like Eddison, Cabell, Morris, Mirrlees (at least with Lud-in-the-Mist), Dunsany, Merritt, C. L. Moore (and, of course, Kuttner), Leslie Barringer, Kenneth Morris, E. C. Vivian, etc., etc., etc. Perhaps even such as Talbot Mundy....

Since you mention the name, at some point I'd be interested in a discussion of the works of Abraham Merritt. He has an odd reputation, perhaps because he wasn't a real "starving artist". I think his stories aren't often taken seriously. But I enjoyed them when reading them as a lad on the recommendation of my Father. I'd be glad to revisit them.

 

[GOLLUM]

Yep, I've read Solomon's Mines (don't look so surprised!... ) and I'm up for this. Looks like JD has taken a sneak peak at my library before the official opening as he's named several of the authors that feature there. *Goes to check up on missile-guided security system and feed nine demons of Hell...*

 

[Connavar]

I can pick up King Solomon's Mines from the library. But its the Easy readers version.

Anyone know the difference ? Will you notice it too much the different format ?

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

It depends on whether "easy" means large print for senior citizens, or abridged for young readers. If the latter, it doesn't bode well.

To date, I've only read Haggard's short fiction.

So, wishing to take part in this discussion, and unable to do libraries or used-book stores at the present time (the dust and the mustiness make me ill), and because I was making one of my increasingly rare forays into the outside world anyway, I stopped by the local chain bookstores.

I was able to buy two surprisingly affordable trade paperbacks: King's Solomon's Mines (Barnes and Noble) and She (Borders).