Personal Beliefs put forward in books...

[Marky Lazer]

I can't remember any, really, though I'm sure I read tons of books with personal beliefs of the author. My Tree-story contains some morale as well in the end, I'm afraid.

 

[the_faery_queen]

oh no! how awful!

i think that everyones personal views are going to come througha bit. mine about women's rights do, and about religion (that people shouldn't follow everything blindly to the point of hurting other people. or something) but its when you preach you have to worry. its hard to know when you're preaching tho, which is why having a bunch of friends/unfortunates online, to read it through for you, honestly, can be a help.

 

[Marky Lazer]

I agree with that.

It's the same in songs. When singers are too preachy it gets rather sad (Bono comes more or less into mind)

 

[GrownUp]

Yes, Rattle and Hum can be difficult to listen to for that reason.

Even when you agree, it's so embarassing.

 

[Rosemary]

Whether it is Goodkind, Robert Jordan, feminism or communism...I have read both of their books. I read them for the storyline, not their personal beliefs. Neither they nor other authors I have read have 'preached' about their beliefs in my opinion.
There just seems to be too much inference placed upon this 'feminism' aspect these days by readers. A fantasy or science fiction book is just that - fantasy.
However if others chose to dislike that aspect of 'feminism' that's fine by me. I just find the whole thing rather tedious.

 

[the_faery_queen]

a book is fantasy, it isn't real, and that's why it bothers me when people use that as an excuse for some of the things they write about. its not when people preach about their issues that bothers me, so much, as when they do other things, homophobia, misogny, racism that sort of thing. i find those sorts of issues far more annoying than someone preaching their cause. and then i hate it when they say, its not real so its ok. because i don't think that sort of thing is ever ok. not that you get a lot of it, but it does happen sometimes.

 

[edott]

I think most writers will put some of thier beliefs in a book knowingly or not. of course it is fun and a good wrting exersice to write from a characters point of view with whom you have nothing in common.
I never understand tho why people get mad at someone for writing from their own perspective. I know a writers who have been critized for things such as "why do you have so many gay characters" well his gay and that is something he knows and understands, or "why are all your main characters black females" to a black female writer. might as well ask these people why they write all their stories in english.

and forgive my english, i'm an american

 

[dwndrgn]

I think most writers will put some of thier beliefs in a book knowingly or not. of course it is fun and a good wrting exersice to write from a characters point of view with whom you have nothing in common.
I never understand tho why people get mad at someone for writing from their own perspective. I know a writers who have been critized for things such as "why do you have so many gay characters" well his gay and that is something he knows and understands, or "why are all your main characters black females" to a black female writer. might as well ask these people why they write all their stories in english.

and forgive my english, i'm an american

I think the main problem that some people have with authors and their personal beliefs is when the book comes accross as having been written to get the belief out there and possibly convert others to their way of thinking. I'm sure that quite a few wonderful books came about this way, but when you pick it up and start reading and see it as a type of 'propaganda' that can be off-putting. I'm pretty dense in these matters as I rarely focus on what could be behind the story as long as the story is good, I generally take it as it is. Of course, if someone points out how certain issues were portrayed, you might notice them later.

This happened to me many years after having read and thoroughly enjoying Battlefield Earth. It was pointed out to me that Hubbard was trying to convince his readers on certain points of his 'religion'. Now that I know this, it still doesn't change my original opinion of the book.

 

[Omega]

<snip>
This happened to me many years after having read and thoroughly enjoying Battlefield Earth. It was pointed out to me that Hubbard was trying to convince his readers on certain points of his 'religion'. Now that I know this, it still doesn't change my original opinion of the book.

This was the sole reason for John Travolta starring in the movie, he wasn't doing it because he thought it would do well in the box office, he did it because it was a project close to his heart, i.e. Scientology.

 

[littlemissattitude]

Yes, Rattle and Hum can be difficult to listen to for that reason.

Even when you agree, it's so embarassing.

Really? I quite like those rants...they are one of the things that makes "Rattle and Hum" for me.

Then, again, most of what he says there are things I wish I would have thought of. My favorite is, "The God I believe in isn't short of cash, Mister." That's just perfect, I think, in the context of the rest of what he says in that bit.

I don't think, especially in science fiction and fantasy, that you're going to be able to get away from writers who at least occasionally use their novels as a bully pulpit.

 

[Mark Robson]

I don't have a problem with people expressing their beliefs through story, though I've tried to steer clear of this for the most part. I love Elizabeth Moon's writing (particularly her fantasy). Although I do not share her obvious pro-hunting stance that leaps out at the reader in her sci fi series - The Serrano Legacy, it does not lessen the fact that she tells a good story.

Dwndrgn's highlighting of Battlefield Earth is another point in case. I read this for the story, knowing nothing of L Ron Hubbard's belief in scientology. I remember enjoying it when I read it, though whether reading it again would bring the same enjoyment now would be difficult to predict.

In my stories I try to minimise references to my beliefs. Although I have a strong Christian faith, my stories are in no way meant to be allegories. I write stories with the purpose of telling a good tale. A writer often cannot help their characters sharing something of their own moral standards and values. I often find it difficult to make my bad guys nasty enough. I hope this reflects well on my own personality!

 

[Gary Wassner]

In many respects, I consider my books a process through which I can question my beliefs. I think it's probably impossible to write something without expressing how you feel about issues that are important to you. You may not obviously take sides or preach, but if you write from your heart, then what else are you doing but dealing with the things that mean the most to you?

For me, writing a series give me the chance to work my way through difficult times, difficult moral dilemmas, trying relationships where right and wrong are not so obvious. I am not fond of any book that tells me what to think. But if an author can show me how to think, that's another story altogether.

 

[Marky Lazer]

I find you (I at least) always put something of yourself in any character (even in the bad guys).

 

[Gary Wassner]

Maybe moreso in the bad guys. It gives us a chance to explore the other sides of our natures without committing to the beliefs necessarily. But what I find even more interesting is that most readers assume that the POV of the author lies always with the protagonists. They often think that the side that prevails in the end, whatever side that may be, is the side that the author supports.

But I think you are right. Every character has an element of the author in it. How could it not when they are creations of the author's mind to begin with? Even if the personality is vile and the actions are unconscionable, when we write this, we have to think like they would in order for it to ring true. We have to become our characters, at least for a time, if we want to write honestly. That's probably why so many of us go insane.

 

[HieroGlyph]

...Nietszchean Übermensch ideal ...

Robert Jordan, for example. Does he like the idea of women in power? If so, he has worked tirelessly to hide it from the beginning. I'm inclined to believe the promotion of his paternalist ideas is a central incitement to his writing of The Wheel of Time...

I am not really able to comment on most of what other people comment upon here!!! Nor do I know of Nietszche's ideal's... I could ask for lengthy English explanation's, but fear reprisal's: so I'll just have to get round to reading more philosophy one day .

As to Jordan... I always got the feeling he just did not understand women. Full stop. Nor did he know what 'full stop's' were really about... (Am I the only one that found his women a little too one-dimensional? I read to and incl. #7. ONCE!)

As to the books that you peeps are mostly refering to, I think that writer's beliefs should, essencially, be kept from the writing. The reads I prefer in this SFF genre are connected with me on the humanistic level of understanding, but the mental level is where it all happens: bend whatever Laws of Nature you can and take my mind elsewhere with your newly found 'cause and effect'...

 

[Marky Lazer]

Let me help you with Nietschze, HieroGlyph.

This is easier than to explain it myself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cbermensch

 

[Gary Wassner]

Hieroglyph, pick up the source. Read Twilight of the Idols or the Antichrist. You may not understand all of what Nietzsche was trying to say, but you'll get a good feel for how he reasons and how he thinks. His process is just about as important as his product. I studied and then taught 19th century Continental philosophy and Nietzsche was where I always began and where I always finished. Whether or not you agree with him, he's brilliant, and he opens up doors of thought that most people don't even realize are there.

 

[HieroGlyph]

I appreciate your pointers and thanks for the link. I started browsing it and was soon led astray - then to the kettle - then astray - then to a rather black cup of tea... lol ... Yeah, just when I thought 'I fit that catagory' somewhat, youre confounded again by the precision of philosphy and you arent what you thought you might have been. Aye, I really do appreciate this kind of 'belief promotion'... So Im not at all a Nihilist. Or I am, but it needs an addendum!

 

[Priv8eye]

I think the main problem that some people have with authors and their personal beliefs is when the book comes accross as having been written to get the belief out there and possibly convert others to their way of thinking. I'm sure that quite a few wonderful books came about this way, but when you pick it up and start reading and see it as a type of 'propaganda' that can be off-putting.

I have to admit to being rather dense to a lot of this stuff myself, and have often relied on others to point out (in foruims and places like this) what is blindingly obvious to others.

The main person not mentioned here that comes to my mind is Pat Mills (but he is mainly a comic writer so perhaps doesn't fit your criteria) but over the years his work has become so obviously preachy it has marred the story beneath. This is when the authors belief becomes the problem, when it is the story as opposed to being part of the story.

I also read Battlefield Earth with no idea of the Scientology behind it for years.

 

[HieroGlyph]

...No, Im not a Nihilist, nor do I think Im trying to overcome Nihilism...
Ok, back to the thread...

Btw, cool username, Priv8eye
I believe Pat Mills does belong in one of these genres here. Though I dont know what hes trying to get across... And we're all dense, though few of us are brave enough to admit it. Im mighty dense: I mean, Im 37 and I havent read any 'whole' book on philosophy... And here I am blabbing about all kinds of things as if I actually know something... No, Im here in the hopes that I can communicate with ppl that read and enjoy much of the same as what I do. Namely 'science-fiction and fantasy'. On top of that there are tea-rooms as such, for other interests... I simply do not wish to spend time browsing across a hundred 'other' forums that also discuss the same book/films/radio, whatever... And I thought this was a 'major' UK site... Things arent turning out the way they appeared. But, hey, I may well be ratty because lately Ive had too much time on my hands and Im waking up at all hours in the morning with even more time on my hands as Im no longer allowing myself to roll fags... Sheeesh, who on Earth wants to read any of that? That belongs in a private journal somewhere... Hey! But it could make for a silly read ... Or NOT!
Sorry, this was supposed to be a short reply, but my fingers started to do some crazy dance...
I was thinking of C.S.Lewis who was on the telly tonight... A very brainy chap. Very very brainy. Cant remember much of the stories about Narnia... I only half read it as a kid... And since that time have attempted to read his 'The Screwtape Letters': a very interesting read, but whenever Id pick it up I was looking to one of my shoulders and thinking to myself "Should I be reading this or aught I be digging out one of the Tolkien appendixes...???"
To be subjected to 'Suppositions' (as Lewis called them) or NOT (be subjected to allegories, conversions, promotions, whatever...) ?
Huh!?!
Did he say anything worth reading?
Oh, whats it matter...? Something to look forward to: Hyperdrive, Jan 11th (9pm maybe) BBC2...