Here is a fun one!
What is the 'ship of Theseus' thought experiment?
What is the 'ship of Theseus' thought experiment?
'Ship of Theseus' thought experiment.
- Thread starter THX1138
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Harpo
Getting away with it
if we replace the ship with a broom, and then also replace Theseus with Trigger from Only Fools And Horses, is this thread the same as this?
www.sffchronicles.com
What's your favourite paradox?
If time travel ever became a reality it would be very dangerous... Maybe all the paradoxes around it show that the concept is based on somewhat flawed logic though?
www.sffchronicles.com
Harpo
Getting away with it
See also Sugababes
I think I will take Tigger's broom argument over the ST teleporter debate any day. 
And all of you have been here on Chrons for much longer then me. And with more experience of all of the threads and discussions then myself, with just over a year. So, for me, this is new! For you it's old.
Outside of ST teleporters and Tigger's broom, it's still fun to apply into thinking of perspectives and imaginary items.
And all of you have been here on Chrons for much longer then me. And with more experience of all of the threads and discussions then myself, with just over a year. So, for me, this is new!
For you it's old. Outside of ST teleporters and Tigger's broom, it's still fun to apply into thinking of perspectives and imaginary items.
Harpo
Getting away with it
I just used the search box, DaveI think I will take Tigger's broom argument over the ST teleporter debate any day.
And all of you have been here on Chrons for much longer then me. And with more experience of all of the threads and discussions then myself, with just over a year. So, for me, this is new!
Outside of ST teleporters and Tigger's broom, it's still fun to apply into thinking of perspectives and imaginary items.
@farntfar Very true! And no doubt that this topic has been 'Chewed-up' to no end on various threads. But on the whole as a self-thought exercise, this can be applied to many imaginary things. Even if the ideas are good, bad or just plain out-there, it just comes down to what makes sense to you especially being that it is some imaginary thing that can't be explained. That's part of the fun. ), or )
The ST Energizer in a way can then tie into the stockpile of Clones from the movie Moon. And back we go, (yes, no, yes, no, and soon.)
The point is to see and play with both the Yes and No's.
It's like being at a gamming convention and listening to D&D players argue with the GM over some trivial rule supplement when the GM states in the beginning, "Basic D&D rules, no exception." And you here this:
But Advanced D&D rules state ...
I read in Dragon Magazine issue abc ...
But in Dragon Magazine issue xyz, it states that ...
Well, I was at a convention in London where we hear from the main D&D rule designer who said, "Blaw blaw blaaawww." ...
It's not real to begin with, but that's part of the fun. Put the concepts together as a whole and enjoy the ride from both points and go with it.
), or )The ST Energizer in a way can then tie into the stockpile of Clones from the movie Moon. And back we go, (yes, no, yes, no, and soon.)
The point is to see and play with both the Yes and No's.
It's like being at a gamming convention and listening to D&D players argue with the GM over some trivial rule supplement when the GM states in the beginning, "Basic D&D rules, no exception." And you here this:
But Advanced D&D rules state ...
I read in Dragon Magazine issue abc ...
But in Dragon Magazine issue xyz, it states that ...
Well, I was at a convention in London where we hear from the main D&D rule designer who said, "Blaw blaw blaaawww." ...
It's not real to begin with, but that's part of the fun. Put the concepts together as a whole and enjoy the ride from both points and go with it.
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I, farntfar, both exist and do not exist.
farntfar, as you know, is simply a label that I have attached to myself for the purposes of being able to interact with this forum.
When I am not interacting with this forum, I am not farntfar. I have another label, which, interestingly enough, is not entirely fixed either, but that's another story, and would only further confuse the issue.
For the purposes of this discussion, my "real" and external name is fixed, and was only changed at the moment of my marriage; which is where the confusion arises, for in France, my name did not change at that point, but remained constantly that I originally bore.
Further, as has been mentioned earlier, my cells are constantly being replaced. Different parts of me replace their cells at different rates apparently, and there are parts of me that do not get replaced at all.
So am I the same person that I was 60 years ago, when I bore most of my original planks?
I feel that I am the same person, though certainly with different memories and different experiences. I also definitely have different views about all sorts of things, including about my own permanence. But my memory lasts back to those early days in a very personal way, if imperfectly and I believe that I have not lost my original identity.
Does the ship have a similar feeling of permanence, despite so many partial replacements.
Certainly Trigger believes he has only ever had a single broom.
farntfar, as you know, is simply a label that I have attached to myself for the purposes of being able to interact with this forum.
When I am not interacting with this forum, I am not farntfar. I have another label, which, interestingly enough, is not entirely fixed either, but that's another story, and would only further confuse the issue.
For the purposes of this discussion, my "real" and external name is fixed, and was only changed at the moment of my marriage; which is where the confusion arises, for in France, my name did not change at that point, but remained constantly that I originally bore.
Further, as has been mentioned earlier, my cells are constantly being replaced. Different parts of me replace their cells at different rates apparently, and there are parts of me that do not get replaced at all.
So am I the same person that I was 60 years ago, when I bore most of my original planks?
I feel that I am the same person, though certainly with different memories and different experiences. I also definitely have different views about all sorts of things, including about my own permanence. But my memory lasts back to those early days in a very personal way, if imperfectly and I believe that I have not lost my original identity.
Does the ship have a similar feeling of permanence, despite so many partial replacements.
Certainly Trigger believes he has only ever had a single broom.
alexvss
Me doesn't knows no grammar.
Ghost in the Shell (1995), one of my favorite movies of all times, has the Ship of Theseus as one of its motiffs.
Is Spider Man the same Spider Man despite all the changes to the Spider Man story that have and are still being told about Spider Man?
As for Kirk, only in those scenes otherwise, "It's just a show people, get a life!"
As for Kirk, only in those scenes otherwise, "It's just a show people, get a life!"
What about a vintage car that's had new parts fitted, and engine from another car, and a chassis from an entirely different car?
What about that BBC programme, The Repair Shop? Everything they turn out there is a fake worthy of Lovejoy!
The Only Fools and Horses sketch was funny. Yes, it is sad that some people think it was an original idea, but that is just an age thing; you can put it in the Those moments when you realise how old you are thread.
What about that BBC programme, The Repair Shop? Everything they turn out there is a fake worthy of Lovejoy!
The Only Fools and Horses sketch was funny. Yes, it is sad that some people think it was an original idea, but that is just an age thing; you can put it in the Those moments when you realise how old you are thread.
tinkerdan
∞<Q-Satis
About 330 billion cells are replaced daily, equivalent to about 1 percent of all our cells.
So in a hundred days are you still you.
I think all of the above are meant to deflect us from this more important question.
At 71 years; who the hell am I?
So in a hundred days are you still you.
I think all of the above are meant to deflect us from this more important question.
At 71 years; who the hell am I?
1)You are who you are now. Or, 2) Who are you not? etc, etc and so on and so forth.
Like @Dave said, the refusal to accept age, mortally, loss and facing the answer to your own question, "What if? What if not?"
But! What my intent for this post is not a philosophical question about the human Id or to re-hash past threads! Though it is interesting.
But to think outside the box from a different perspective and not in the literal way, but not forgetting the exercise either.
How about Flin in TRON, or even the good DR? Each DR knows they are old and decrypted just like the TARDIS.
Taking it in a more Human Id direction in the move District 9 when Wikus begins mutating into a Prawn? Is he still Wikus? There is no right or wrong answer. Just the possibility of answers to be explored and used in probable scenarios.
Even in the ST transporter scenarios, if it is a suicide clone machine, who would you fear more? The Federation with its transporter/replicators sending clones everywhere. Or the Borg with their nanobot tech, but what! They have transporters too...Talk about a redundant clone war.
Like @Dave said, the refusal to accept age, mortally, loss and facing the answer to your own question, "What if? What if not?"
But! What my intent for this post is not a philosophical question about the human Id or to re-hash past threads! Though it is interesting.
But to think outside the box from a different perspective and not in the literal way, but not forgetting the exercise either.
How about Flin in TRON, or even the good DR? Each DR knows they are old and decrypted just like the TARDIS.
Taking it in a more Human Id direction in the move District 9 when Wikus begins mutating into a Prawn? Is he still Wikus? There is no right or wrong answer. Just the possibility of answers to be explored and used in probable scenarios.
Even in the ST transporter scenarios, if it is a suicide clone machine, who would you fear more? The Federation with its transporter/replicators sending clones everywhere. Or the Borg with their nanobot tech, but what! They have transporters too...Talk about a redundant clone war.
Cthulhu.Science
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2023
- Messages
- 522
Buckminster Fuller noted during a trip to San Francisco that the last time he had been there had been enough years before that every cell in his body had since been replaced through normal biological activity. The only part of him that was the same was his eye glass frames.
So was it the same Buckminster Fuller that returned to San Francisco?
So was it the same Buckminster Fuller that returned to San Francisco?
Harpo
Getting away with it
Or the direction I was going with this post per the threads description: (Discussion area for news and topics relating to all aspects of science and nature, especially those that might be of interest for science fiction writers.)
Flynn, a computer programmer, is scanned into the computer. His appearance is altered, and he can 'reconstruct' damage programs like the Recongnizer, but is still limited in his abilities. Though he is a couch potato in the human world, he is athletic in the computer world. Is he still Flynn or an AI hacking program? He is sent out of the computer back into the human world. Is he still Flynn and why does he not have a desire to be athletic when he can be?
He goes back into the computer and spends years of human time there which is evolutionary time in the computer world. His data self is certainly altered and could be hacked. How would he know? When he comes out back to the human world after being hacked, is he still Flynn? How would he know? And if not hacked, why has he not evolved? There is no right or wrong answer.
Or for the Philip K Dick fans, when did Deckard realize he was not a replicant, and how did he know?
Thats what I was trying to go for here. But, c'est la vie!
Flynn, a computer programmer, is scanned into the computer. His appearance is altered, and he can 'reconstruct' damage programs like the Recongnizer, but is still limited in his abilities. Though he is a couch potato in the human world, he is athletic in the computer world. Is he still Flynn or an AI hacking program? He is sent out of the computer back into the human world. Is he still Flynn and why does he not have a desire to be athletic when he can be?
He goes back into the computer and spends years of human time there which is evolutionary time in the computer world. His data self is certainly altered and could be hacked. How would he know? When he comes out back to the human world after being hacked, is he still Flynn? How would he know? And if not hacked, why has he not evolved? There is no right or wrong answer.
Or for the Philip K Dick fans, when did Deckard realize he was not a replicant, and how did he know?
Thats what I was trying to go for here. But, c'est la vie!
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Counter point your statement. Provide a definitive argument against it. Debate with yourself.