Using real locations and conflicts in fictional context

[WolfSpirit0909]

Will I need any special licensing for putting any real locations like the Highway of Death and real underground bases and desert regions where there were made up experiments and hybrid villains during Operation Desert Storm? Will this be an issue for those who fought in the Gulf War? What if I included some of the Iraqi Republican Guards as bad guys? Will anyone care?

And during some secret covert operations to find secret weapons in Russia in the 60's, is it better to make up those secret locations? Or ok to use real places like the Russian Temperate rainforests, East Berlin? Or the Ural Mountains?

 

[tegeus-Cromis]

There are many, many books that use real events and real locations. Who exactly is going to sue you on behalf of the Russian temperate rainforests or the Ural mountains? I'm pretty sure that Dublin didn't sue James Joyce for using real street names in Ulysses. Or, you know, in Dubliners.

 

[The Judge]

When you're dealing with real life people and places and goods, the rules are always the same -- you can use them in your work, no problem, but if anything you write might be in some way defamatory or cause a loss of reputation to the people or to the owners of the places/trademarks holders of the goods, then you run the risk of a libel action. (And in this respect I learned only this morning that apparently under Russian law it's possible to defame the dead.)

So, for instance, if you talk about atrocities in a real place which are documented against Iraqi Republican guards, there's no problem save one of taste -- it's all too possible to offend and distress people by using real life incidents within living memory, particularly if the subject matter is dealt with in an exploitative or disrespectful way or there is a lack of thorough research.

If, however, you invent atrocities at a real place you are heading into potentially dangerous waters, particularly if anything you say could pinpoint a specific person or group, whether or not you intend to do so eg you invent something that took place in a real situation where there were only a handful of people, and/or you imply that all of them took part in the invented atrocity. Using Nazis in this way isn't likely to cause issues (though do note the kerfuffle over the invented chess game in a concentration camp that was shown in a recent TV series) since they are recognised bad guys and no one is going to sue for defamation. But put the same invented atrocity in a real place in the hands of a modern US force is going to be much more problematic.

Also, since I know from your other posts that you're planning a book using the Nazi death camps, do note that it is a criminal offence in Poland to imply Poles were implicated in the Holocaust, so if you're planning on Poles being anything other than victims, do check the precise wording of the law to ensure you don't fall foul of it.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Will I need any special licensing for putting any real locations like the Highway of Death and real underground bases and desert regions where there were made up experiments and hybrid villains during Operation Desert Storm? Will this be an issue for those who fought in the Gulf War? What if I included some of the Iraqi Republican Guards as bad guys? Will anyone care?

And during some secret covert operations to find secret weapons in Russia in the 60's, is it better to make up those secret locations? Or ok to use real places like the Russian Temperate rainforests, East Berlin? Or the Ural Mountains?

*Cracks knuckles*

The politcal elements first:

I write books set in Northern Ireland, some of which make reference to the Troubles (albeit in a roundabout fashion; these are SF and fantasy, not political in nature), and the wider political arena that is NI. People invested in anything NI are very, very quick to pull me up when I get anything wrong (which, when writing in a politically charged arena, has a wide definition), but are almost always generous in understanding that, as an invested person (ie I'm from NI, and do belong to one of the traditions within the country - it's nearly impossible not to have an allegiance - albeit I'm very moderate), I do have my personal take on the history and definitions that form NI. (I do try to show a balance of the communities in my books but one, in particular, is very much based in the Unionist community - but it's the less political of the two released to date)

What's important, then:

A good understanding and sympathy for the underlying history and cultures of those impacted by your story. People will care, very much. And they will be knowledgeable. It's up to you where you take your bad guys from but they need to feel real, to have motivations and those motivations will be challenged, so be very sure of your ground.

(*musical interlude* This is why Spandau Ballet are (often/largely/insert whatever qualitative needed here) derided in Belfast for their song, Through the Barricades, where Simple Minds play Belfast Child to huge cheers - one was a weak take on the Troubles (in my opinion, I'm sure there are some people who like it) and their nuances which was made pop-py, the other was a better researched song which drew on a very well known Belfast ballad (She Moved through the fair, for anyone interested. It came down to respect and not making the NI people feeling like they were lining pockets of someone else by being cheap entertainment. It helped for this, then, that Simple Minds were from Scotland and familiar with sectarian conflict more than a band from London, perhaps)

In terms of the landscape

People are more generous on this one. I open one of my books at a Waterfall that has a slightly different layout than the one I describe (I needed two paths to join in a horseshoe where, in reality, one continues up to a car park), and that one hasn't had anyone pulling me up - even people very familiar with the place. The feel is right and there is room for literary interpretation.

However, I have one due for publication next year that is set in quite a well known place, Glenveagh in Donegal. I did umh and ahh about naming the place, because I don't know the layout intimately, but decided it was too clearly Glenveagh not to name (and I draw on some of the real history of the estate, too) - it's a very unusual place. That being the case, I had to bite the bullet (life is hard) and go to Donegal for a long weekend to go back and revisit the estate. I took photos, recorded sounds, walked the paths my characters would and, generally, nailed down a lot of the inaccuracies. For 95% of readers, it won't matter. For those who know the place, it could pull them out of the story if something feels very wrong. More importantly, for me, I'm confident in what I'm writing, and that helps things a lot.

Google maps are your friend, especially StreetView. For me, I feel less confident writing about places I don't know and I'd try to visit if I could.

Good luck with it!

 

[Jo Zebedee]

If, however, you invent atrocities at a real place you are heading into potentially dangerous waters, particularly if anything you say could pinpoint a specific person or group, whether or not you intend to do so eg you invent something that took place in a real situation where there were only a handful of people, and/or you imply that all of them took part in the invented atrocity. Usin

We double posted, your honour, but this is a good point. There have been some Northern Irish* films and books that do this well - The Crying Game, in particular - but they do it by capturing the nuances that lie behind the culture of the place. If you want to do this, Wolfspirit, you need to be very, very culturally aware. So far, in your posts about your WIP, you haven't sounded as confident, perhaps, as it would good to be. Some of the questions you are asking (I've only had one eye on the Chrons, so forgive me if this is not the case) seem to be ones that, if you don't already know, indicate you may have a lot more research to do before you do any writing. If you don't mind me asking, why do you want to use the settings and cultures you've chosen? Bearing in mind, people involved (see my post above) don't like being used to form the basis of someone else's project without feeling like it's a project that understands them and hopes to add to the conversation that is always ongoing when things are sensitive.

*I'm aware this isn't where you are writing about, OP, but it is a useful comparative base in terms of needing knowledge, being sensitive to history and culture etc, and I don't know a lot about the area you are planning to write about.

 

[Susan Boulton]

I think the thing you need to do, is research the events closely, and get a feel for what you can include and what you need to gloss over, change or omit. Getting facts wrong, or changing recent history to suit your story line can cause offence, and land you in hot water at worst, and down right annoyance at least.

The film U571 caused quite a bit of both in the UK, as it was a warped version of the real story of Operation Primrose. On 8 May 1941, German submarine U-110 attacked an allied convoy that included the British ship HMS Bulldog. Damaged by depth charges, U-110 surfaced and was boarded by the Bulldog's crew, who collected all the papers they could find (no one spoke German, so they couldn't be selective), and an Enigma machine. Bletchley Park already had several Enigmas at this point. Bulldog's triumph was recovering the codebooks.

I used a fictitious regiment in my WWI novel, Hand of Glory, as I did not want to say certain events in the story line happened in a real regiment. Even though there was indications in the historical record that these events did happen in various regiments I did not want to point a finger. All the locations I used in the book exist, except for one village. Though a number of the buildings mentioned have long gone, lost to the plague of 1960 and 70s development.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

You can alternate between research and writing while the writing is still in progress. Writing will give you a better idea what you need to research, and research will give you a better idea what to write. But as the above posts indicate, you do need to do that research, and do it in depth, because you are dealing with some events that people still living have experienced, and that many people (and rightly so) feel very strongly about. So it is important to get things absolutely right before you release your story on the world, or you'll be in a world of trouble.

Which is one reason why I said earlier and in another thread, that you may not wish to introduce too many complications at this point—because some of them are going to have to be researched in depth and then handled in a thoughtful and knowledgeable way. For instance, does your character need to be Jewish and Polish and Rom? Because each of those is going to have to be researched in depth, and do you really want to take all of that on? Wouldn't it be better to simplify at this point and focus on learning all that you need to know to write this book—because the complications will multiply all by themselves, without any need for you to add in extras, in the course of writing. And the research could turn up several fascinating ideas you haven't even considered yet. Leave yourself some room to work them in when they do arise.

 

[WolfSpirit0909]

If, however, you invent atrocities at a real place you are heading into potentially dangerous waters, particularly if anything you say could pinpoint a specific person or group, whether or not you intend to do so eg you invent something that took place in a real situation where there were only a handful of people

So maybe it's best I leave out the Highway of Death incident during the gulf War if I add any chemical warfare and zombies to the mix, could this be entering some risky business? What about the oil flames that were set off that lasted for months? If I said that was a distraction set up by fictional villains so they could hide their secret island base location off the coast of the Gulf?

A good understanding and sympathy for the underlying history and cultures of those impacted by your story. People will care, very much. And they will be knowledgeable. It's up to you where you take your bad guys from but they need to feel real, to have motivations and those motivations will be challenged, so be very sure of your ground.

What if I make up atrocity events in secret locations that were not known to the public and have a story from there?

The film U571 caused quite a bit of both in the UK, as it was a warped version of the real story of Operation Primrose. On 8 May 1941, German submarine U-110 attacked an allied convoy that included the British ship HMS Bulldog

Ahh I heard about this one. It had a pretty big impact. This is why I might wanna try making some events and locations up but keep them within the same real life regions.

you do need to do that research, and do it in depth, because you are dealing with some events that people still living have experienced, and that many people (and rightly so) feel very strongly about. So it is important to get things absolutely right before you release your story on the world, or you'll be in a world of trouble.

I'd really be a lot more comfortable writing some more fictional made up events or make some places up that could of easily been hidden and be able to make up fake villains, e.g. -hidden made up desert or Gulf island or hidden underground facility beneath the deserts in Kuwait/Iraq or hidden Ural mountains with a hidden nuke base or made up testing site in some Russian rainforest. Hidden proxy wars, it can be done right? Too much research will deteriorate from my main story.

Which is one reason why I said earlier and in another thread, that you may not wish to introduce too many complications at this point—because some of them are going to have to be researched in depth and then handled in a thoughtful and knowledgeable way. For instance, does your character need to be Jewish and Polish and Rom? Because each of those is going to have to be researched in depth, and do you really want to take all of that on? Wouldn't it be better to simplify at this point and focus on learning all that you need to know to write this book—because the complications will multiply all by themselves, without any need for you to add in extras, in the course of writing. And the research could turn up several fascinating ideas you haven't even considered yet. Leave yourself some room to work them in when they do arise.

I have to strongly agree with you on this. While it could make the story more interesting with her mixed Jewish/Polish/German/Romani background and would explain how she got a lycan spell put on her from a relative or someone close to her family but sometimes less complications the better. I just thought it would have a nice dynamic to what she has become. I could even just stick with her being Jewish/Polish and was in the camps with her family and she survived and was discovered with her lycan gene and tested on by Nazis. But the mixed Romani background would explain how she got the spell. I researched and I couldn't find anything on Polish curses or spells. I think there was some German cults that were following things similar to the occult right after WWI, but I'd have to research more about it. Unless I decide to add her some German roots like with Kristallnacht, but I'm not sure if having three ethnic backgrounds is going to complicate things.



Thank you everyone, this was all very informative!

 

[CTRandall]

Here's a cautionary tale about the potential pitfalls and the care you need to take when dealing with real-world issues. Last year, Amelie Wen Zhao felt she had to delay publication of her first novel, Blood Heir, because her attempt to deal with modern slavery and people trafficking was (mis)interpreted by readers as being insensitive to historical slavery in the US.