This Horse ain't Dead! Info-dumping, Exposition, Appendices, etc...

without some background it ends up seeming senseless and brutal for no reason.
If you've placed the reader into the viewpoint of your protagonist, as against just mentioning what's happening, that character has all the context they need to function. And if they do, as they analyze the situation and decide what must be done, the reader will, too.

In the opening scene, for example, does the reader need to know why and how the civilixation fell in order to understand the action and know why it's meaningful to the protagonist? No. The protagonist's world is limited to what's happening in his moment of now, and how that motivates him/her to respond. And if that's enough for them, why does the reader need more?

You need to stop thinking in terms of telling the story because plot can only be appreciated in retrospect. For the protagonist, what matters most is what holds their attention strongly enough to respond to.

Our lives, from the moment we wake to the instant of sleep are an unbroken chain of cause and effect. Something motivates us to act. And that action usually is the mother of what holds our attention next. For example:

The doorbell rings, so the protagonist puts down the book, wondering who it is. S/he has some guesses, as to who and why, and so, not we do too, and share his view. And in doing so, we want to know who it is, and have just encountered a small hook that will entice us to turn the page.

If he decides to go to the door he may pass several rooms full of interesting things, but he's ignoring them because he's focused on his task. And because that's true, describing what could be seen would be something the author notices, but familiar, and irrelevant to him. So the result of describing it would be to kill the momentum the act of going to the door might have brought, break POV, and slow the story to a crawl, while the reader is focused on finding out who's at the door but being force-fed detail they've not been made to want.

Look at it this way. We have a very narrow view of the protagonist's world in his/her viewpoint. But what we see is what matters to that protagonist. And fair is fair. It is their story. And over time we will see everything that matters to the scene, the protagonist, and the plot. Present all that background information at once and by the time the reader needs to know it they'll have forgotten. Instead, if the reader needs something, use the protagonist's viewpoint as a flashlight, and where needed, give him/her reason to illuminate what matters.

Make sense?
 
The protagonist's world is limited to what's happening in his moment of now, and how that motivates him/her to respond.

To a point. But our actions and reactions are governed by a huge amount of background knowledge and cultural conditioning that we don't think about at the time we draw on it. If I were to look out of my window and see my neighbour had hoisted a Nazi flag, I'd feel an instinctive horror -- I wouldn't mentally go through my knowledge of history to arrive at it. The background knowledge is not part of my in-the-moment viewpoint, but is wholly part of my reaction, which would be inexplicable without it.

So if you limited the protagonist's world to his "moment of now", how would you deal with something like that? There are obviously better and worse ways of doing it, and it would depend on the importance of the episode (as said above, authors tend to assume more background is necessary than actually is the case) but some background knowledge would have to be got across somehow.
 
Thanks @Jay Greenstein and @HareBrain for your thoughts on the matter. Just as with everyone else's input I'm considering it all and how to apply it.

In that much of the advice follows the same line of thinking, similar to what Jay just posted, and responded to by HareBrain, let me use this moment to elaborate a bit in that HB has given me a nice lead in.

As HareBrain states, imparting the protagonists and other character's knowledge to the reader without writing a biography is a tricky thing, yet, one I feel I've accomplished well enough in the 'rough-finished' and forum posted 2029 novel. Where I am struggling to accomplish all that has been suggested is due to the following.

The world I'm presenting is "your" world. One each of us knows very well. Even the city this takes place in (Philadelphia) may be known well to some. Those in the U.S. will know its government, etc., but right out of the gate I'm having to present that everything you know has now dramatically changed. More so, the protagonist and other characters (as Jay suggests), wouldn't give much of it any thought as they go about their business, in that they have lived it everyday for a decade.

In other words, I'm not describing some distant world like Saturn where a few details allows the reader to fill in their own blanks and it works. I'm describing their world which they know well, which for X-reason is now like Saturn... But, to our characters it is normal. More so, a big part of the story's premise is how the people have been forced to forget pre-2020 (to varied degrees of success).

So I suppose I'm getting the sense that to some degree I have to explain the 'why' and 'how' your world is suddenly so different.

In any case, the suggestion was made regarding parallel timelines broken up by chapters (of which that is essentially what I have in these info-dumps 2018-2020). What they are not is as character intensive as they could be, but, I fear making them so character intensive that they draw the reader's attention away from the current story-active and only pertinent characters in 2029.

That's enough push-back for now, not intending to state that I disagree with any of you which I do not.

The only aspect I will counter, is the suggestion that this story applies to an existing comic book character. It could have been, yet now doesn't. So my work is now stand alone and not dictated by anything else (in fact, that change took little more than a name, nothing else relevant.).

Thanks again everyone! It's a lot to mull over and I'm debating the 'critique' suggestion in that it is not polished (so don't want to waste anyone's time)... yet is available for viewing online.

Thanks again, I'm considering it all without question.

K2
 
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Incidentally, what are your plans for the novels? Are you proposing to try to find an agent and/or an established publisher, or are you not going to bother with that route and simply go for the self-publishing option? SPing does allow you complete freedom to write your books the way you want to write them, without having the pressure of having to conform to some perceived norm of readability. I gather, too, that for SF it can be easier to achieve a break through for books which are a bit different.

To date, my experience has been simply posting stories that I have written on various web-forums (like this). Frankly, I know nothing about having something published. The idea of agents and publishers from what little I know of them I find extremely intimidating. Self publishing could be an option, yet there again, I'm so ignorant as to how to format a novel (for publishing) that it is rather overwhelming as well.

On a forum or website my work is laid out well, is easy to read and looks good, yet converting it to something suitable to be made into an e-book say has me at a bit of a loss.

Just like everyone, I think I have a great story. Feedback on previous work (by casual readers) as to the 'story itself' (still working on the basics like proper grammar and so on) has been exceptional, which all equates to zilch. In the end, I don't want fame, I have little interest in fortune, and the thought of any notoriety I flat out don't want. So I guess, I just want to tell my stories.

Actual publishing, no matter the form of, may be a bigger leap than I'm capable of.

IOW, I don't know :cautious:

K2
 
Actually, that did cross my mind earlier, but I forgot to mention it: if the backstory starts in the next ten years, how quickly would you have to put the story out to avoid it getting outdated by current events? I suppose it would depend on the format (self-publishing would be quicker than non-self).
 
Actually, that did cross my mind earlier, but I forgot to mention it: if the backstory starts in the next ten years, how quickly would you have to put the story out to avoid it getting outdated by current events? I suppose it would depend on the format (self-publishing would be quicker than non-self).

That has been weighing on me heavily. As originally written, it didn't matter as much. Now, in that I do want to get a dig in at the 'Mad Clown' (yeah, we all know who I mean) before the whole world is turned upside down, speed is of the essence.

K2
 
On a forum or website my work is laid out well, is easy to read and looks good, yet converting it to something suitable to be made into an e-book say has me at a bit of a loss.

Just like everyone, I think I have a great story. Feedback on previous work (by casual readers) as to the 'story itself' (still working on the basics like proper grammar and so on) has been exceptional, which all equates to zilch. In the end, I don't want fame, I have little interest in fortune, and the thought of any notoriety I flat out don't want. So I guess, I just want to tell my stories.
In that case, there's a strong argument that you shouldn't worry about what we may think of the info-dumps. While I'm sure you will want to make the stories as good as you can get them, the important part will be the process not the result. So write how you want to write, and enjoy the process itself. Put the stories out on your website, publicise them there, and let your readers come to you! :)
 
One piece of advice I keep coming back to is: trust your readers. Especially SF or fantasy readers. We are primed to believe the story is about another world, or about a world transformed. It's the expectation of the genre. Sometimes, only a word or two is sufficient. At the outset, all you need intimate is that this is our world but Something Big has changed. Your readers go, kewl tell me more, and you are now free to add details as the story demands.

Let me put in a plug for publishing. That act--whether self-pubbed or trad--is crucial for the author because it is the act of letting go. With all respect to Wattpad and its cousins, so long as your work is unpublished, it's unfinished. Which means you never really commit to it. A work of art isn't a work so long as it's still in revision. And the artist cannot grow until s/he places the completed work in public view and suffers the slings and arrows of outraged reviewers. And the kudos and praises. Or the worst of all: utter, blank silence.

My first publication was a short story in an online magazine. Going through the process of submitting, revising, then telling other people about it, was as important to my growth as a writer as any "writing tip" I have ever read. It taught me, among other things, that if I was ever going to finish my novel, I needed to go through the self-pub process to learn it. So I did. Made my own (awful) cover, did the formatting (which wasn't hard), and again did my own (clumsy) marketing. Most importantly, it taught me what "done" looks and feels like, and that was crucial to finishing a complete novel of 160,000 words.

Had I not published those shorter works, Goblins at the Gates would still be at the gate, still being tinkered with, still filled with nothing more substantive than potential. Publishing is part of rich and famous, sure. But publishing is also part of the art of writing stories.
 
This may be the single most fantastic speculative element in the whole story.
I completely agree with @Onyx here. Keep why and how close to your chest, and only tease bits out as your story progresses. Please, for the love of all that is sacred in SF, don't describe this in an info dump chapter! Let us learn about it as your characters do.
 
@sknox ; very swaying and nicely said, a powerful post.

@Onyx & @Joshua Jones ;

A good point there, one worth heeding. That one chapter (in that the original 2029 was to be a singular all-inclusive story (A-Ω)) was the last I wrote coming back to it. Though it does not explain the system the people live under (which ends with 2029 btw), it does explain a big part of the why of it, and more so the inner workings of the government. That government now slated to come to a head in 2032. So it can now be spread out over five novels.

At that point, if this was well enough received, I actually had hoped to shift from novel length works to novelettes or short novellas focusing upon a single character and minor event at a time.

Thanks again everyone!

K2
 
But our actions and reactions are governed by a huge amount of background knowledge and cultural conditioning that we don't think about at the time we draw on it.
Take the case of a swordsman, one who has been forced to draw his blade. His every move is the end result of all the training he's had, plus what he observes and speculates in the moment. So what. His focus is on surviving. Can you imagine the readers' reaction were you to stop the action to discuss his training? No, because it's how he responds in the moment he calls "now" that matters to him, and the reader.

How about before the fight? The problem, then, is that the reader doesn't feel that they need what you're giving them, and in doing it you've interrupted the story. If that doesn't bother them you've not properly gotten them emotionally involved with the protagonist. The last thing you want is for the reader to begin skimming forward in search of something "happening."

Your reader is with you for one reason: they want you to entertain them. And how many history books does the average reader consume a year? How many biographies?

My point is that story happens, and does so in real-time, within that tiny fragment the protagonist calls, "now." When we sit with a narrator who's telling us a story time is irrelevant. The narrator can say, "Let's take a break for coffee," and nothing is lost. But in life, your protagonist, like you and I, must handle what comes at him/her, moment-by-moment. And it's the time-pressure to solve that problem that creates the reader's excitement and worry—the thing they feed on.

Say, "Sally left her chair to peer through the blinds," and the time it takes to read those words pretty well matchs the time it tasks to do that in life. But if you say, "Sally left the comfort of the old overstuffed armchair, the one her father has loved so much. She thought about how much her father had influenced her life as she crossed the well-appointed room to the window, where..." Do that and the reader learns about her past and what influences her present, but the story slows to a crawl. \\That approach can, and does work for literary fiction, where beauty of phrase and poetic expression counts as much as the action. But for action oriented fiction it can be the kiss of death.

Think about the sci-fi you see in film. Does anyone stop the action to explain how the transporter works, to explain the ship captain's background? No.

My point is that every time you stop the action and appear as yourself to talk about anything, it's a POV break. The scene clock stills, all momentum is lost, and you change from entertaining to explaining—fiction to nonfiction.

That's why such authorial intrusions should be short, take place between scenes to pass over boring stretches and add necessary context. No one wants to stop reading if there's a problem in play that must be solved quickly. But textbooks are easy to close.
 
Take the case of a swordsman, one who has been forced to draw his blade. His every move is the end result of all the training he's had, plus what he observes and speculates in the moment. So what. His focus is on surviving. Can you imagine the readers' reaction were you to stop the action to discuss his training? No, because it's how he responds in the moment he calls "now" that matters to him, and the reader.

How about before the fight? The problem, then, is that the reader doesn't feel that they need what you're giving them, and in doing it you've interrupted the story. If that doesn't bother them you've not properly gotten them emotionally involved with the protagonist. The last thing you want is for the reader to begin skimming forward in search of something "happening."

Your reader is with you for one reason: they want you to entertain them. And how many history books does the average reader consume a year? How many biographies?

My point is that story happens, and does so in real-time, within that tiny fragment the protagonist calls, "now." When we sit with a narrator who's telling us a story time is irrelevant. The narrator can say, "Let's take a break for coffee," and nothing is lost. But in life, your protagonist, like you and I, must handle what comes at him/her, moment-by-moment. And it's the time-pressure to solve that problem that creates the reader's excitement and worry—the thing they feed on.

Say, "Sally left her chair to peer through the blinds," and the time it takes to read those words pretty well matchs the time it tasks to do that in life. But if you say, "Sally left the comfort of the old overstuffed armchair, the one her father has loved so much. She thought about how much her father had influenced her life as she crossed the well-appointed room to the window, where..." Do that and the reader learns about her past and what influences her present, but the story slows to a crawl. \\That approach can, and does work for literary fiction, where beauty of phrase and poetic expression counts as much as the action. But for action oriented fiction it can be the kiss of death.

Think about the sci-fi you see in film. Does anyone stop the action to explain how the transporter works, to explain the ship captain's background? No.

My point is that every time you stop the action and appear as yourself to talk about anything, it's a POV break. The scene clock stills, all momentum is lost, and you change from entertaining to explaining—fiction to nonfiction.

That's why such authorial intrusions should be short, take place between scenes to pass over boring stretches and add necessary context. No one wants to stop reading if there's a problem in play that must be solved quickly. But textbooks are easy to close.
I don't think anyone suggested that you have to stop the action to lay down background information.

And people do read novels for more than a play by play of near mindless reaction. Just as many people do read non-fiction, believe it or not - nearly half as often as genre fiction.
 
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And people do read novels for more than a play by play of near mindless reaction
You feel that actively placing the reader into the viewpoint of the protagonist to making that reader feel as if they are living the story is a negative? I can't agree. And, I've yet to find a book on writing that advocates info-dumps. Your mileage may differ, of course.

Just as many people do read non-fiction, believe it or not - nearly half as often as genre fiction.
You miss the point. We're talking about placing a historical info-dump into fiction to explain the story background. Acquiring editors don't react well when they expect story and are given a history lesson centering on fictional people and events.

People read to be entertained by being made to feel, not just know. Here's what Dwight Swain had to say:

Where do you find feeling?

It springs from the human heart.

As a writer, your task is to bring this heart-bound feeling to the surface in your reader: to make it well and swell and surge and churn.

Understand, feeling is in said reader from the beginning. You give him nothing he doesn’t possess already.

But emotion, for most people, too often is like some sort of slumbering giant, lulled to sleep by preoccupation with the dead facts of that outer world we call objective. When we look at a painting, we see a price tag. A trip is logistics more than pleasure. Romance dies in household routine.

Yet life without feeling is a sort of death.

Most of us know this. So, we long wistfully for speeded heartbeat, sharpened senses, brighter colors.

This search for feeling is what turns your reader to fiction; the reason why he reads your story. He seeks a reawakening: heightened pulse; richer awareness. Facts are the least of his concern. For them, he can always go to the World Almanac or Encyclopedia Britannica.

Further, Reader wants this sharpening of feeling because he needs it, emotionally speaking. Otherwise, why would he bother with your copy?


Story happens And in happening it evokes empathy in the reader. History is talked about by a voice that contains no emotion, presented by a performer whose performance we cannot view.

Again, here's Swain. This time on focusing on facts:

The snare of the objective

There are two types of mind in this world . . . two approaches to the field of fiction.

One type is that of the objectivist, the man who sees everything analytically. Three things warp his orientation:

a. He depends on facts.
b. He distrusts feelings.
c. Therefore, he tries to write mechanically.

This man may have an inclination to create. But he’s the product of an educational system that focuses on facts the way a Mohammedan zeros in on Mecca; and, in his case, the education took.

Now there’s nothing wrong with facts as such. Educators of necessity seek a common ground on which to reach their students.

But one of the characteristics of a fact is that it has a record of past performance. That’s what makes it a fact: Phenomenon X behaved and/or existed in thus-and-such a manner yesterday, last week, last month, last year. So, we have reason to anticipate that it will behave and/or exist the same way tomorrow.

This means that to deal with facts, you must devote a great deal of attention to analysis of their track records. What did they do in previous encounters, and how did they do it? They’re like cases in law: Past history dominates. First, last, and always you check precedents.

If this were as far as the matter went, there wouldn’t be any real headache. But the educators refused to let it go at that. Facts were easy to present. Knowledge of them was easy to test. In many areas they were of great practical use. Centering attention on them obviated the complications that went with dealing with each student as an individual.

So, educators in the lead, an entire society plunged into wholesale fact-worship.

When you glorify one thing, it’s generally at the expense of something else. In this case, the “something else” was feeling.


And about feelings:

Feeling, indeed, is what drives you forward. Wrapped up in your story, you face the future, not the past. The tale you tell excites you. You write out of the thrill of that excitement. Everywhere, you see new possibilities, new relationships. “What if--?” is your watchword. The rules, when you think of them, are incidental.

Which all is merely another way of saying that the writer is subjective more than objective; that his inner world is more important to him than the external one. Intuitively, he knows that “plot” and “character” and “setting” and all other analytic elements of the craft, taken apart from story, are just that: analytic; which is to say, dead, in the same way that any part of a dissected laboratory specimen is dead.

Because most readers read to feel, not analyze, they love the work of the subjectivist-turned-writer.


Can you drop in info-dumps and focus on background? Sure. No one dictates how you must write unless you're seeking to impress an acquiring editor. Then, given that it's their football they make the rules. But in the end, any writer can write in any way they care to, and let the market decide. And if you choose to focus on a more historical approach you can, of course. And, I hope you sell a million copies.
 
You feel that actively placing the reader into the viewpoint of the protagonist to making that reader feel as if they are living the story is a negative? I can't agree. And, I've yet to find a book on writing that advocates info-dumps. Your mileage may differ, of course.
I didn't say that. You're the one that said that any information that isn't the immediate reaction of the character is wrong, and that anything that is a break from the action is wrong. You don't want background sections and you don't want exposition that isn't action in the course of the plot narrative. Now you're making it sound like that's someone else.

People read to be entertained by being made to feel, not just know. Here's what Dwight Swain had to say:

Where do you find feeling?

It springs from the human heart.

As a writer, your task is to bring this heart-bound feeling to the surface in your reader: to make it well and swell and surge and churn.

Understand, feeling is in said reader from the beginning. You give him nothing he doesn’t possess already.

But emotion, for most people, too often is like some sort of slumbering giant, lulled to sleep by preoccupation with the dead facts of that outer world we call objective. When we look at a painting, we see a price tag. A trip is logistics more than pleasure. Romance dies in household routine.

Yet life without feeling is a sort of death.

Most of us know this. So, we long wistfully for speeded heartbeat, sharpened senses, brighter colors.

This search for feeling is what turns your reader to fiction; the reason why he reads your story. He seeks a reawakening: heightened pulse; richer awareness. Facts are the least of his concern. For them, he can always go to the World Almanac or Encyclopedia Britannica.

Further, Reader wants this sharpening of feeling because he needs it, emotionally speaking. Otherwise, why would he bother with your copy?

Story happens And in happening it evokes empathy in the reader. History is talked about by a voice that contains no emotion, presented by a performer whose performance we cannot view.

Again, here's Swain. This time on focusing on facts:

The snare of the objective

There are two types of mind in this world . . . two approaches to the field of fiction.

One type is that of the objectivist, the man who sees everything analytically. Three things warp his orientation:

a. He depends on facts.
b. He distrusts feelings.
c. Therefore, he tries to write mechanically.


This man may have an inclination to create. But he’s the product of an educational system that focuses on facts the way a Mohammedan zeros in on Mecca; and, in his case, the education took.

Now there’s nothing wrong with facts as such. Educators of necessity seek a common ground on which to reach their students.

But one of the characteristics of a fact is that it has a record of past performance. That’s what makes it a fact: Phenomenon X behaved and/or existed in thus-and-such a manner yesterday, last week, last month, last year. So, we have reason to anticipate that it will behave and/or exist the same way tomorrow.

This means that to deal with facts, you must devote a great deal of attention to analysis of their track records. What did they do in previous encounters, and how did they do it? They’re like cases in law: Past history dominates. First, last, and always you check precedents.

If this were as far as the matter went, there wouldn’t be any real headache. But the educators refused to let it go at that. Facts were easy to present. Knowledge of them was easy to test. In many areas they were of great practical use. Centering attention on them obviated the complications that went with dealing with each student as an individual.

So, educators in the lead, an entire society plunged into wholesale fact-worship.

When you glorify one thing, it’s generally at the expense of something else. In this case, the “something else” was feeling.

And about feelings:

Feeling, indeed, is what drives you forward. Wrapped up in your story, you face the future, not the past. The tale you tell excites you. You write out of the thrill of that excitement. Everywhere, you see new possibilities, new relationships. “What if--?” is your watchword. The rules, when you think of them, are incidental.

Which all is merely another way of saying that the writer is subjective more than objective; that his inner world is more important to him than the external one. Intuitively, he knows that “plot” and “character” and “setting” and all other analytic elements of the craft, taken apart from story, are just that: analytic; which is to say, dead, in the same way that any part of a dissected laboratory specimen is dead.

Because most readers read to feel, not analyze, they love the work of the subjectivist-turned-writer.
Why post more information on how not to write? That's well covered. This kind of non-advice just reads like more sales pitch for a paid writing system rather than actual advice.
Can you drop in info-dumps and focus on background? Sure. No one dictates how you must write unless you're seeking to impress an acquiring editor. Then, given that it's their football they make the rules. But in the end, any writer can write in any way they care to, and let the market decide. And if you choose to focus on a more historical approach you can, of course. And, I hope you sell a million copies.

You seem to be missing the point that EVERYONE acknowledges that there is a problem with exposition. The only difference seems to be that you like to make it sound like it is something only you realize. And then you provide conflicting advice about it, culminating in what sounds like the back cover of a writing book.

As has been asked of you many times already, how about providing an example of a written passage that SHOWS what you're talking about rather than spending so much time TELLING us about the possibility of a solution?
 
Now, now, we don't need to ad our hominems in order to keep talking.

I've said it before, but in a forum I get to repeat myself as often as I like. :)

"Info-dump" is not a useful phrase. People use it to mean "exposition I did not like." It leaves out the most important part, which is whether it has killed your book and is the reason why the acquiring editor rejected it, or why your reviewers all hate it.

I can point to innumerable books where some readers have loathed the very passages other readers love. So, was it an info-dump or was it timely exposition that enhanced the story?

Worse, how the devil is the new writer supposed to know? Alas, there's really no way. Chances are, however, that the noob will err on the side of prolixity. With luck s/he will have a good editor.

But there is simply no objective way to say: this much is good, but no more. Placed here is perfect, but there it's intrusive. The variables range too widely. I would banish all this talk of info-dumping and encourage writers to write. And then to listen. And then write the next book and do it better. In any art there is exactly one rule that is universally applicable: there are no universally applicable rules.

So don't worry about breaking them. Go ye, therefore and sin. And yeah, per M. Greenstein, don't be surprised if your early efforts don't sell. Doing well out of the gate is given only to the Blessed Few.
 
Worse, how the devil is the new writer supposed to know? Alas, there's really no way.
I disagree with this mainly because a discussion forum is interactive and allows examples to be posted, modified and discussed. There's no reason to discuss these matters in the abstract, which is why I encouraged the OP to post an example of where weighty exposition seems necessary, as well as anyone who has a theory to illustrate it in a concrete manner.
 

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