Creative Writing Degrees in UK?

[Khayos]

Hello,


I'm sorry if this is in the wrong forum, I wasn't sure where else to post it. I'm currently looking at Universities as I will be applying at the end of this year and I was wondering if anyone was currently attending or knew of any good Creative Writing undergraduate courses? Bath Spa has caught my eye, but I need to look further into this. I know beggars can't be choosers, but I'm really looking for a somewhere that will hone my skills and allow me to write without restrictions. Creating Writing degrees are new and fairly rare in the UK and a lot of them are very similar to English degrees and cover the History of writing or analytical techniques which I don't really want to do. I'm also not looking for the Uni with the highest publishing rate, I'm wary of these as a lot of them attempt to publish as many books as they can without preparing the Writer for their future, just to get good statistics.
Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.


Thank you!


Khayos.

 

[Boneman]

Not sure about Creative Writing Undergraduate Degrees, but do look at University of East Anglia, especially their MA (I think they do blend both into one course, but could be wrong).

 

[Serendipity]

Have you considered the MA Creative Writing at Bath Spa?

I know they will stretch you in ALL directions. You'll need a suitable portfolio of work (c. 12k words) and a degree, but it can be any subject, to get the grant money so to speak. And yes, they do the background work, like how to deal with agents etc. And yes, they deal with genres such as science fiction and fantasy.

 

[Ransonwrites]

I'm going to stick my nose in here - if I'm missing something than just ignore it - but when considering a university degree, the outcome of which is likely to set the course of your entire life, then it's worth hearing all sides of the argument and testing your own ambitions against the informed opinions of others. Thus, I offer my informed opinion for your consideration.

... the History of writing or analytical techniques which I don't really want to do.

Really? Why not? You'll be a better writer for it.

You may not want to hear this but Creative Writing degrees are a considered by some people to be a joke. I know a university lecturer who used to work for the British Council as a course designer, is a published author, has a Masters in language and, in addition to his regular teaching, delivers part of a creative writing course at a good university. He thinks it's crap and not worth the student's money, but in this financial climate he can't turn the work down.

Compare this to a 'proper' English degree, whether in literature or language. Employers respect it because they know what it is. It can lead to an academic career, or to a range of alternative post-graduate qualifications in related areas. When you say you have an English degree, people know what you mean and respect it. When you say you have a degree in Creative Writing, people think 'oh dear'.

Sorry, don't want to rain on your parade but the whole point of a university degree is to underpin the rest of your life. Do a creative writing course as an optional extra during your studies, or do it after you qualify, but if I was your careers advisor I'd chuck a bucket of cold water over you, then ask you to name ten big name authors or scriptwriters who have a creative writing degree.

On a personal note I did English Lit. A-Level then went to university and did a science degree. It hasn't stopped my fiction getting to the commissioning editor's desk, although if I'd done a proper English degree the skills and background it would have provided me with (not to mention the networking opportunities in that world) might mean I would already be published!

No offence intended - like I said earlier, if you think you've got the right idea and think that your degree choice will work, you should have no fear over putting your ideas out there for other people to analyse and criticise.

Whatever you choose to do, I wish you every success.

 

[Kylara]

UEA have a major minor style undergrad degree: either English with CW or American Lit with CW (Am Lit turns out to be Am cultural studies so take a long look at that one!)

There are a few Joint Honors courses around (tend to be Eng and CW) but again each university does different things with their courses.

I am on an Eng and CW joint honors at RHUL - the first year is a grounding in CW - there is a Why Write? module which looks at theories of writing, why people write, why people should/shouldn't write etc, which is generally interesting and thought provoking. The other module in 1st year covers fiction writing, play-writing, and poetry. Second year has 2 modules to choose from 3 in CW - fiction, play-writing or poetry. Other unis have different systems, but I don't think there are many pure UG CW courses.

UEA has a large and very acclaimed PG set of CW courses. A lot of other unis do too, and again it all depends on what sort of course you fancy, but you tend to need and UG degree to get on to them.

There is a book of courses offered by universities that you can get (there is a new one every year) which has lists of all the courses and that might help you narrow down the list of unis which offer the courses you are interested in so that you can further research them

Most if not all unis offering the course will require you to submit a portfolio. Some are open spec and others request certain things or give certain prompts so check that before you write a tonne and find it isn't what they are asking for!

Good luck!

 

[AnyaKimlin]

The OU does a creative writing degree.

 

[Sapheron]

the History of writing or analytical techniques which I don't really want to do.

Surely studying the history of writing means reading and analysing old books, in particular ones that made a difference to the industry (so probably particularly good and inventive ones). If you simply want to hone your writing skill, I suspect the first thing anyone around here would tell you is to read lots of good books, so I'm not convinced you should be ruling out this approach so easily.

That said, there are probably quite a few open days around about this time of year. My advice would be to make up a list of potential universities offering the course and then arrange to go see them, look around and talk to the lecturers. That'll give you a better idea of what they're like and how well they'll fit you than anything else possibly can.

 

[SevenStars]

Hi. I know you said that you weren't thinking of a traditional English Degree (and I'm not sure if you want to relocate) but University of Ulster does a fantastic English degree course. You have to take a core module each semester; these follow a traditional canonical route. The other 2 modules per semester are chosen by the student. It is possible to follow a creative writing thread through your 3 year course.

As a previous post mentioned, you would have what is seen as a solid degree (English) with the creative writing that you prefer woven through it.

 

[RebeccaTheWrecker]

Bath Spa has a pretty good reputation for writing degrees of all kinds - I'll be doing my MA in Scriptwriting there come September (I obviously think it's a great uni).

But honestly, I don't know if doing an entire undergrad in creative writing is a good idea. I say this as someone who started out doing a double degree in law and creative writing before switching degrees to journalism. The degree can be a bit discouraging, as if you are not writing the type of work your tutors enjoy your marks suffer and you certainly feel like you cannot make a living as a writer. I once submitted a piece for an assignment, got the equivalent of a C- (or thereabouts) and then went and submitted the same story without editing in a nationwide student writing comp and came second. Furthermore, it is incredibly difficult to actually make a living as a writer and a creative writing degree does not prepare you for working in the 'real world' - it has limited qualifications.

I really am not trying to be discouraging - there are so many wonderful writers who didn't study a writing degree at university. They read lots of books, and studied the craft and honed their skills on their own and managed to get published. A writing degree does give you industry contacts, insight into how publishing works and much more, there is no doubt about that. But I'd just make sure it is what you want to spend money on - a degree is not cheap!

Maybe you could try short courses or doing it as a minor to make sure its definitely the direction you want? (Sorry, I'm Australian, not quite sure how uni works there!).

However, if it is something you really want to do then don't let anyone (especially me, some stranger on the internet) tell you otherwise! Just do your research and make sure you pick a degree that is right for you.

 

[millymollymo]

Hull (Yay with the City of Culture.. *ahem*) offers a BA in Creative Writing. I'm one year from the end of the part time version of this.
It covers many different techniques from poetry through crime, short stories, and non fiction. Generally speaking it's heavily tilted toward "literary" styles not genre.
That said, if you i̶g̶n̶o̶r̶e̶ filter out that which you don't believe will enrich your own personal efforts there's a lot to be learned from such a diverse offering.
Don't enter into any of these thinking you'll come out with a finished book at the end. That won't happen through the course alone.
It does help you discover the writer traits in you, how you go about writing and editing that work.
What you do with that revelation is entirely up to you.

As far as I am aware York Uni offers a creative writing degree that can be studied from home.

HTH - good luck.

 

[Khayos]

Thank you to everyone who replied, I really appreciate it! Ransomwrites, MillyMollyMoo and Sapheron, I'm sorry if I came across as slightly ignorant, I worded it very badly and didn't mean that I did not wish to learn techniques on writing. I love reading, and studying other Authors work would be amazing. I'm currently doing A level English Literature and Language combined and we do a lot of "spoken text analysis" which involves reading a transcript of two people speaking in real life and picking out where they've used a technique (eg. elipsis, contraction etc) and why. This is interesting and arguably helpful to an extent but it really is not what I want to concentrate on. I personally prefer the other aspects of Literature and Language but I think I failed to portray that in my original question as I was rather rushed.

I understand that Creative Writing is a rather new degree and I have looked into English ones and Combined English/Creative Writing ones. I feel very strongly about doing what I love in life but I am taking all comments on board and will look further into English with a more open mind. However, I'm rather stubbornly set on Creative Writing and am maybe considering an Undergraduate in English to go on to do an MA in Creative Writing?

But honestly, thank you so much to everyone who replied and gave advice on universities and courses. Obviously I've done research but until the open days, I feel like first hand experiences and opinions are the best advice I can get. (My college career advisor has yet to make an appearance, so thank you for stepping in Ransomwrites) and I wasn't offended by anyone, I needed a good push to look at my options realistically and I just wish I didn't word my originally question like I did - I sound like a fool.

I think I will look into combined courses or the possibility of doing a Masters in Creative Writing.


Thank you again! Good luck with your writing.

 

[HoopyFrood]

I've done the English degree to Creative Writing Masters route. I know that going to university is considered to be about deciding what you want to do in work life and helping you on that route, but it should also be about what you enjoy doing and what you want to commit three years to. It used to annoy me that my science friends felt that they were there doing what they wanted to do and enjoy, but as an English student I'd obviously paid £3000+ a year just to p*ss around. And my degrees have helped in my work life and I've certainly never had anyone in an interview look down on me for having a creative writing Masters (usually tends to generate a bit of conversation).

Anyhoo, I went to Exeter and thoroughly enjoyed my time there. It's got rather fancy and completely refurbished since I went, and there have been some...disputes with the creative writing department there. But for English/Creative Writing I think it's still an excellent university to attend.

The course, as others have mentioned, was quite open. You do have core modules in the first year, which everyone does, and is your analytical and theory affair but I have to say, seven years later, that's the stuff that's really stayed with me.

In the second year you can start choosing your modules, including a selection of creative or film based ones. Again in the third year, and you can even do a creative writing dissertation. That's what I did. So it's possible to get an English degree, but have done largely creative writing.

I did a script for my dissertation and I enjoyed it so much and that was my reason for taking a Masters, to learn how to write such. Loved it all.

Degrees were good for me because I find it hard to motivate myself and I really work and learn best in a classroom environment. So I feel I got a great deal from my degrees and it certainly made me write a great deal and try things I would never have done otherwise. I know other people who are dedicated to their writing in other ways and prefer writing groups, creating critiquing groups etc. To each their own and it all depends on what you feel you can take from it.

I now work in online media, particularly websites and social media. As such writing and creativity is a large part of my job (along with the SEO skills I've acquired along the way) so I think it's certainly helped having these degrees on my CV.

'Course the dream is screenplay writer extraordinaire

(Speaking of which, glad to see another scriptwriter here, RtW! I keep trying to group together all the scriptwriters around here but it's like herding cats )

 

[RebeccaTheWrecker]

'Course the dream is screenplay writer extraordinaire

(Speaking of which, glad to see another scriptwriter here, RtW! I keep trying to group together all the scriptwriters around here but it's like herding cats )

Scriptwriting's the way to go Always glad to meet others who love it (I have yet to meet many here)!

Khayos, in the end I'm doing what I love so I'm always of the opinion that you should do what you love and if that's creative writing then go for it.

 

[millymollymo]

Didn't take you for a fool, Khayos. Fools don't research their options

Too many arrived in class five years ago thinking they would finish six years later, being ten times richer. Those of us that are left are, but wisdom doesn't buy the bread.
Also remember that modules are marked on a level measured by academics. Storytelling can be crushed by that format.

 

[ZombieWife]

Despite people for or against creative writing degrees, you need to decide for yourself what the best route is. Keep in mind that I'm coming at you from the U.S. end of things as well.

I have a B.A. in Literature and Creative Writing (they were combined at my university). I also have an M.F.A. in fiction. Between the two, I must have taken close to 20 literature courses. I can't think of many lit courses that helped me much as a creative writer. Keep in mind this is my experience. My lit courses were focused heavily on critical theory and modern literature models. Very little was focused on the mechanics or craft elements, unless they supported a literary theory that you wished to present in an essay.

This doesn't mean that others won't learn about writing from lit courses. But, here in the U.S. very few literature courses step outside the classics. And the classics are great. If you want to paint, you study Picasso, right? But, for me, I got very little from the classics, other than what NOT to do in my own writing. (e.g. Henry James addressing the reader and breaking the 4th wall, James Joyce creating his own language--how much of this would actually FLY today in the literary market?) But, you can get a sense of history from these authors and their works.

As an instructor of creative writing, I get far better results when I show students what's in the market. NOW. What's been published in the last 5 years. One semester, I didn't have my students order text books, but pulled pieces from current literary magazines, genre magazines and whatnot. "Here is what is being published. Today."

I can think of two classes in my whole education that focused on modern works: 20th century literature (and even then, we were reading "Things Fall Apart" era type stuff), and a literary journalism class where we read Joan Didion, Truman Capote, etc.

Only in creative writing classes did I get a look at modern greats like Sherman Alexie, Junot Diaz, Jhumpa Lahiri. It felt like my eyes were opened. Instead of trying to decipher what I was "supposed" to be getting from the classics, I saw the modern voice and it inspired me--and many of my fellow classmates--in ways I cannot describe.

I'll restate: this is my experience. Many will be able to glean a lot from the classics in a literature course. But many will not. You need to figure out which one you are. Do you get inspired when you read a Dickens tale? The Iliad? Chaucer? Or, does George R.R. Martin inspire you? Ray Bradbury? Patrick Rothfuss? Joe Abercrombie?

Further, every single one of my Creative writing pals (in the B.A. program and from my M.F.A.) have jobs. Nice, well-paying jobs. Some teach. Some write for local venues (magazines/newspaper). Some do copywriting and marketing. Some are social media experts. One works for Oxford publishing on the east coast. One hit the NY Times best seller list. One has a nice publication record in popular literary magazines. Another is a freelance editor and started up his own lit-mag. A handful were approached by headhunters for business jobs (The M.B.A. here is becoming very devalued as graduates show NO creativity--but someone with an M.F.A.? Absolutely.) I don't know a single person who is sad, out of work, desperate or destitute.

This is in the U.S.. Sorry, I keep stating that, but things could be totally different in the UK.

Also, I hate a write-up about MFA programs in the U.S. on my blog if you're interested. It's a polarizing topic here. For me? I needed the academic structure and mentorship. Others will learn without these tools. The trick, overall, is figuring out which one you are. Good luck!

 

[ASleepyGiraffe]

Hello,


I'm sorry if this is in the wrong forum, I wasn't sure where else to post it. I'm currently looking at Universities as I will be applying at the end of this year and I was wondering if anyone was currently attending or knew of any good Creative Writing undergraduate courses?

Thank you!


Khayos.

Hey Khayos,

I'm currently studying Creative and Professional writing at the university of Nottingham and loving it, so I'd definitely recommend checking it out. The course tries to let each individual focus on their own writing and develop in the areas they are interested in, although there are compulsory modules that ground you in a lot of mediums, e.g. fiction, poetry, scriptwriting etc...

A lot of focus is put into teaching you the skills needed to go into the professional side of the publishing industry as well, e.g. editorial/copy-editing etc....

I know creative writing gets a lot of stick for being a bit of a 'mickey mouse' degree, but I tend to ignore comments like that. No degree is worthless and people who profess such tend to have a very limited insight into what the degree actually entails, although I am obviously biased on the matter. Ultimately I'd say wherever you go, and whatever you go onto do, just keep writing and take advantage of the opportunities that are on offer.

It's certainly been the right thing for me, and my writing has improved so so much in the year that I've been here but a degree in creative writing isn't for everyone. The contact hours are quite low, mainly to give you a lot of time to write, but when you are in the seminars they're really intensive. If you wouldn't be happy doing anything else then I'd say go for it.

Hope this helps a little. If you have any questions let me know.

Tim

 

[Boneman]

Since you're in West Sussex, might be worth a look at West Dean College if you wanted to save money by living at home...

College

 

[ZombieWife]

I know creative writing gets a lot of stick for being a bit of a 'mickey mouse' degree, but I tend to ignore comments like that. No degree is worthless and people who profess such tend to have a very limited insight into what the degree actually entails, although I am obviously biased on the matter.

It's funny, but I'd say that a good 1/3 of students "washed out" of the creative writing program during my B.A.. People assumed it was easy--like slopping paint on a canvas and calling it "art." That you make up a "cool, badass story" and you'll get all A's. I was one of three people (out of 15) who got As in my first undergrad workshop. In my second workshop, I was one of 4.

As a creative writing instructor, I'd say that my average on grading is:

5% of people get an A grade
60% of people get a B grade
20% of people get a C grade

And the rest get a D or lower. To get an A, students need to show me command of specific craft elements. Most people come in and think:

1. They don't need to learn craft elements
2. They don't need to revise (EVER)
3. Because it's creative, they don't need grammar or spelling

People think that creative writing is SUPER subjective. It's not. Some elements are, but for the most part? Nope.

For the first part of the class (a basic INTRO to creative writing course), I focus on Fiction, teaching and evaluating these specific elements:

Character, dialogue, conflict, form/plotting/pace, setting/atmosphere, POV and Voice. (POV takes 2 weeks). We also delve into flash fiction, micro fiction, and a little creative nonfiction.

For the second part of the class, students work on poetry: metaphor, simile, sound/line breaks/enjambment, Voice/persona/irony, rhyme and meter (2 weeks on that **** because holy cow, it's a nightmare to teach), Form, Experimental (L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E Poetry).

You turn in a poem or a short story, you need to show me that you understand what 1st person is. And stay in 1st person, and in the correct tense. This alone tripped up 80% of my students.

I also make them write a Shakespearean sonnet (in perfect iambic petameter) which might be considered torture in some countries. I love me some Shakespeare sonnets, but writing one in the correct meter? Bwahahaha! It makes ME cry thinking about it.

What I'm getting at is that people who think creative writing degrees are all fluff don't know what the holy **** they are talking about. For some? It might seem easy--because you have intuition, and you have raw talent, and you learn elements quickly (or sense them organically). But there is something to it.

I recently talked to a former student who was just accepted into Harvard Law school. She said that learning creative writing was one of the #1 things that helped her learn how to READ closely, how to UNDERSTAND information, how to see the mechanics of the written word. As writers, we can roll our eyes and call it all "embarrassingly easy," but we're writers. This is our wheelhouse. A good writer in a GOOD writing program will thrive. Most people (and 95% of my students are NOT creative writing majors) struggle. Some succeed and learn, but they have to work their asses off.