wriiting technique advice

[john11]

Hi and thanks for reading this post.

I am an amateur writer at best and have not done any writing courses, but would like to learn.
In an effort to increase my knowledge i went to my local lending library and read each and every book on creative writing, approximately 30 books in total which took about six months.
Armed with this new knowledge i wrote a few short stories - which have been universally mocked and laughed at.
I feel really down, and can't figure out what i am doing wrong, after taking some much "expert advice" from books written by people with university degrees i have not improved at all.

Q1: I don't want to take a few years out to do a in-depth writing course, but is this the only option?
Q2: Are there any books i should be looking at.

Many thanks in advance. John.

 

[J Riff]

Lots of books, lots of options, don't be down. Short stories are NOT easy to write. Try the 75 and 300 wd. challenges in here and you will improve by doing and by observing what others do.
Try writing and then rewriting instead of reAding 30 more books about writing.

 

[Mouse]

In my opinion, you can't learn how to write just from reading those bloody 'how to' books. You need to actually write. Practise. Practise. Practise. Also, I tend to think you need a smidgen of natural talent in the first place. If you can tell a good story, you can learn to write one. Don't rush. Read books - fiction books - and write.

 

[Abernovo]

Quick reply, as I'm meant to be doing other things, not related to the internet.

I'm with Mouse on this. You can't learn how to write from a book. You an learn the basic rules, but it's like learning to drive - you only really learn once you start driving around. The lessons were to teach your way around the controls and how to get through your test.

So, write, write some more, swear at it and write it over. The Challenges are good practice. Use the Crits - read what other people have written, and the critiques they get. Sometimes, you see mistakes that you're making. Give crits yourself, even if they're simple ones to begin with: I like this, this bit didn't work for me because..., I didn't understand why....

Join in discussions here, cos I think we're all (whether published or not) still learning. And read, widely.
Good luck.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Write, write, write. Then get it read by better writers, take their feedback on board and write, write, write some more. Every day if possible, even if it's just a journal. And critique others in detail, line by line - this worked, this didn't, why have you got a comma there. But the consensus generally is to be a writer, write. And assume it will take a while to learn. Because we've been reading all our lives, we think it should be easy to emulate that. It's only at the sharp end we realise how hard it is.

And, incidentally, it will take at least a few years. It is the hardest thing I have ever learned to do, and to do at least half-competently, and I still get crits that indicate I have a long way to go.

 

[D-E-M-Emrys]

To become a great writer, it helps to be a great reader...

...but when it comes to reading, it shouldn't be the 'great' quality you're digesting, more so the 'great' quantity.

If you're struggling to get anywhere, let alone get ahead, take a step back and ground yourself. The most important rule of writing is quite simply this:

ENJOY WHAT YOU WRITE!

If you don't enjoy it? Then the reader will pick up on your discontent, likely because you haven't put your heart and soul into it.

And once you've got your feet firmly on the ground, pen / keyboard to hand, the next rule is:

WRITE, WRITE, WRITE!

 

[Boneman]

I'm with the others on this, but it's obvious you have the passion and want to do it well, which is a vital first step. The problem with 'How to' books is that they're often completely different, with common themes within them. This can confuse more than help because you try to write the way someone else suggests, which means you'll never find your own unique style. It's a bit like wallpapering - you can read all the books you like, but until you get out the paste the table and the paper, you'll never know how to improve, and remember: every writer tdoay started out where you are now (I'm leaving out 'intellectuals' like Martin Amis and Salman Rushdie, and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want to write like them, anyway.)

2 things I'll reiterate: read and write, and keep at both. If you can find a friendly writing group near you, join it.

BUT: coming here is the best thing you'll ever do - you can learn more here than in any writing group/book/course (and I have an MA in creative and critical writing, so I do know). Browse all the threads, join in (even the humour ones are instructional!) and start to learn by doing. Yes, it'll take time, but you cannot beat what is here. Good luck.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Books on writing can only show you the tools - usually you need to practise at using the tools.

For some recommendations for books, try here:
http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/541753-books-on-writing.html

Note that patience is an essential part of writing - you don't instantly become a mechanic just because you hold a wrench.

 

[The Judge]

Armed with this new knowledge i wrote a few short stories - which have been universally mocked and laughed at.

Silly question, perhaps, but have you asked the laughers why they are laughing? Some people just like to mock others as a way of oneupmanship -- there might be nothing wrong with your writing, just something very wrong with your choice of friends/family!

If, on the other hand, these are usually pleasant people who would praise you in other ventures, it still might be worth asking them what they found so amusing. Is your dialogue stiff and stilted, your descriptions over-blown and too purple, the plots unbelievable, the characters cardboard? They might be very wrong, of course, unless they are writers themselves, but it's still helpful to ask why they reacted as they did.

I feel really down, and can't figure out what i am doing wrong,

It usually takes a while to develop a "nose" for your own work -- I think everyone here will tell you it's much easier to see mistakes and flaws in other people's writing than your own, which is one reason we push everyone to give critiques. Trying to work out what's wrong with someone else's writing often makes a little light bulb glow bright in your head and you realise you've been making exactly the same mistake!

Meanwhile, as JRiff says, we've got the Writing Challenges here Writing Challenges - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums Have a read through a few past Challenges, including the most recent 300 worder (voting is still open!) and then have a go at writing stories yourself based on the images/themes. When you feel confident, have a go at entering the current 75 worder, too, then once voting is over at the end of the month you can get critical feedback on your story if you want by posting it here http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/529972-improving-our-75-word-stories-read-first-post.html Actually, reading through that thread and its companion for the 300 worders will be instructive, too.

Good luck!

 

[Jake Reynolds]

Wow, been a while since I've popped my head in!

I totally understand your pain, John. I've been writing my whole life as a hobby, twenty years as someone interested in making a career out of it, and five years as someone getting serious.

There are two sayings that have stuck with me:

"It takes twenty years to become an overnight success." - Eddie Cantor
"Every writer has a million bad words in them." - Ray Bradbury

Both of these echo the sentiments of my fellow Chronners. Put simply, all one can do is write. Stephen King in On Writing suggests; “If you want to be a writer, you must do two things above all others: read a lot and write a lot. There's no way around these two things that I'm aware of, no shortcut.”

I would recommend On Writing of course, and it is one of the few that doesn't claim to have a 'method' other than the above. There is no easy fix, or else everyone would be writing best sellers.

Lastly, I would recommend the excellent podcast Writing Excuses. Though they focus primarily on fantasy and science fiction, their lessons on the different elements of plotting, character development and so on are base lessons irrespective of genre, all in easily digestible 15 minute chunks. You can download all of them for free http://www.writingexcuses.com/season001/.

But most of all, be patient! Writing is like any career- it takes years of work, discipline and, above all, you have to love it!
http://quotationsbook.com/quote/37593/#sthash.TOfJhqeO.dpuf

 

[jastius]

Sorry to hear that your someones were less then complimentary. It happens. If you give a potential reader a story that is anathema to their life choices or even simply not their favorite genre you can pretty much count on a damp fizzle of a reaction.
But that doesn't mean you are a bad writer. Nor does writing a crappy story mean you are actually bad at it.
Because there are three parts to the equation. First being proper form. Second being proper writing, and third being a real story. Sometimes the third is the hardest thing to do as there are all kinds of things that you can write that aren't actually stories.
They are just masquerading as them.
Then there is the writing. Writers who are very good at what they do understand the rhythm of words. Good prose reads with a beat. The rhythm of speech is different again from prose and descriptive imagery. Authors like Dickens, Faulkner, Churchill, Hemmingway, Hugo, Elliot, and White knew this and knew how to play with it.
Good writing flows like a song. Dialogue has a give and take. It blends seamlessly throughout the story so you are carried along with it. Good writing is true without being trite. It suggests and infers without shouting or bludgeoning the reader. Instead it allows the reader to discover the story. It becomes a co-conspiracy between you and your reader.
The characters sound like what they are in their actions and dialogue, both in use and form of language. You begin to know them as you would a friend. They simply feel real to what they are.
Please do post for the seventy five, John. I am more then curious about books that tell you how to write. I haven't seen things like that since composition class in grade six. Perhaps we could all learn from your hard won knowledge then.

 

[Toby Frost]

I know how you feel, and there's a lot that could potentially be said about this, but here are a few thoughts.

1) Choose the people reading your work carefully. If their response is just to mock, they're the wrong people. If their response is "This isn't working, and here's why", that's completely different. It may help to join a writing group: at least they'll be trying to do the same thing as you.

2) How-to books get a mixed press, and it is better to practice than to read (although Stephen King's On Writing is very good).

3) However, it helps greatly to read novels in a more analytical way. In other words, once you've finished a book, try going back and considering what worked and what didn't. Why does the opening work so well? How are the characters presented? Everyone trying to write has a pretty good idea of what they're supposed to do, but beginning writers still write big infodumps and flowery "war never changes" openings. The trick sometimes is to see what you're doing and know why you're doing it.

4) I don't know what you're writing, but write something you're comfortable with. It doesn't have to be present-day stuff and the technology or magic can still be quite outlandish, but I think a lot of people fall down in attempting things that they're not ready to convey. I would be much more comfortable writing a character who was a youngish bureaucrat in a desk job than a grizzled war veteran whose wife had recently died. Unfortunately, a lot of character "types" are quite strange or dramatic people, and hence hard to get the hang of.

Oh, and do post something for critique. It's hard to know exactly what the problem you claim is, and that would help narrow things down. I hope this helps.

 

[Esfires]

Simply put: writing is a skill, not a knowledge set. You learn to write by doing it diligently over a long period of time, not by reading about it. If you want to get better at your writing, you need to read more fiction and write (as best as you can) every day.

 

[Fishbowl Helmet]

Read, read, read. (Fiction.)
Write, write, write. (Also fiction.)

Read a ton in the genre you want to write in, and lots of classics (in and out of genre).

If I can, go buy Self-Editing for Fiction Writers. It's not meant as a how to write book, but it teaches you many great ways to edit your writing to make it better. Which is a backwards way of learning to write better.

 

[Tyburn]

Basically, everyone's got an opinion. Some you will find you agree with, some you will find you have difficulty accepting. There's no single right way to write, you just have to develop your own style and keep at it until you get better and better. Don't stop writing though, that's a sign of giving up.

Just remember the words of Commander Peter Quincy Taggart in the classic documentary 'Galaxy Quest' -

"Never give up! Never surrender!"

(On a more serious note, one thing I've found is keep all the old stuff you've written - once in a while you'll look back on it and find an idea hidden in there you can really work with. Also if you think you may be using commas a bit too much, try reading your work out loud and taking a deep breath every time you come across a comma. If it sounds particularly odd, then that comma might not supposed to be there.)

 

[Fishbowl Helmet]

Basically, everyone's got an opinion. Some you will find you agree with, some you will find you have difficulty accepting. There's no single right way to write, you just have to develop your own style and keep at it until you get better and better. Don't stop writing though, that's a sign of giving up.

Just remember the words of Commander Peter Quincy Taggart in the classic documentary 'Galaxy Quest' -

"Never give up! Never surrender!"

(On a more serious note, one thing I've found is keep all the old stuff you've written - once in a while you'll look back on it and find an idea hidden in there you can really work with. Also if you think you may be using commas a bit too much, try reading your work out loud and taking a deep breath every time you come across a comma. If it sounds particularly odd, then that comma might not supposed to be there.)

Going off that, read you stuff out loud anyway. It really does help get a better understanding of the flow and rhythm of language.

 

[john11]

Thank you so much for the kind words, much appreciated.

I realise i need to learn more about how to write, and the how-to books have been no help at all. What should my next logical step be? I mean should i do a writing course at college or university, are there any on line courses worthy of consideration?

I am thinking about putting up the first chapter for your consideration in hope of trying to find where the problems are. But unfortunately i felt a little apprehensive, as a newcomer to this forum have only given a small amount feedback, and felt that fellow members may feel if if had not critiqued their work why should they bother critiquing mine. Do you thnk i should put up the first chapter any way be damned either way (Proverbially)

Many thanks. John.

 

[Abernovo]

Once you've got the required posts, put up a section of it, sure. Honestly, don't feel apprehensive*, as there's nobody that can't learn something. To paraphrase what I saw from an agent a while back, the one way you can guarantee your story will never be published is if you never submit it. Likewise, if you never let anyone comment, how can you be sure if you're doing something wrong, or (just as importantly) something RIGHT?

As to your next step, what do you think are your issues with your writing? Which areas do you want to make better? What do you want from a course, or whatever?

As a starter, to rectify common errors, have you tried The Toolbox, over in the Writing Resources sub-forum?

*Of course, putting something up for critique does bring a natural apprehension: you're putting up your baby to be scrutinised.

 

[JoanDrake]

The only thing I've ever been told about writing that seemed to work was "Write what you want to read yourself". Even if it doesn't improve you, you'll at least have more fun.

Like was said, Stephen King's "On Writing" is probably the best of the tutorials, and if you're in a group that just seems to mock you, find another (like here, I've never seen them make fun of anyone, though helpful advice abounds.)

 

[The Judge]

What should my next logical step be? I mean should i do a writing course at college or university, are there any on line courses worthy of consideration?

if you've got the money spare to do a Creative Writing course, and you enjoy doing such things, then certainly, go for it. People learn in different ways, and it may be you'll pick up more by being taught in a formal setting rather than learning through trial and error, which is basically what writing alone is.

I am thinking about putting up the first chapter for your consideration in hope of trying to find where the problems are.

That's not open to you quite yet, as you need 30 counted posts. And although there's a word limit of 1500, frankly you're better off just giving us about 500 -- that's more than enough for us to gauge if there are immediate problems with your technique, and you can add other, longer, threads later as you grow in confidence.

But unfortunately i felt a little apprehensive, as a newcomer to this forum have only given a small amount feedback, and felt that fellow members may feel if if had not critiqued their work why should they bother critiquing mine.

That isn't a problem. We do look askance on those members who repeatedly return to Critiques demanding help, but who don't reciprocate or join in elsewhere in the forums, but that certainly doesn't apply to you, so don't worry on that score. As for being apprehensive, no one actually enjoys putting work up for critique and waiting for the savaging! Well, some odd people might, but most of us treat it as a painful necessity.

Before you do put work up, though, do think carefully about your own mental resilience. Even for those of us who have been writing for years, and who are confident of our technique, having someone pull our work apart can be be devastating. If getting criticism is likely to depress you and/or stop you writing, then it might be best to defer it for a bit, until you've grown as a writer and feel better able to cope. Meanwhile, you can continue writing, in secret if need be, and learning generally.