Question on story pacing

[biodroid]

I have read GOT and am currently in the middle of ACOK. I would just like to clear up a couple or more issues I have with the preceived dissappointment of AFFC. What seems to be the main issue is the pacing obviously but also the 5 year wait between ASOS and AFFC and also the gap to ADWD. Would it be a safe bet that considering my current status in the series that if I read them back to back that dissappointment would be a lot less if I read them immediately after one another? Just wandering. I don't know if the thread heading is valid considering my questions. Maybe one of the mods can change it accordingly

 

[BetaWolf]

I read it all the way through, one after the other. Part of the sense from the five year delay between books is for the reader, but also for the writer. It's like visiting friends you haven't seen in five years, but who are still doing exactly what they were doing five years ago.

The first three do flow well together: they make a nice trilogy in fact. For me, the series starts to unravel a bit after that and more so in ADWD than with its predecessor.

So my advice would be to finish the first three books in one go. I think that the fourth and fifth books will (hopefully) be wrapped up a bit tidier once The Winds of Winter arrives. So maybe put off the others until just before that book is released.

 

[HareBrain]

I agree with Betawolf. I read the first four back to back, and didn't feel FFC was quite as bad as many people painted. But I was very disappointed with DWD, and I think that was because I'd had to wait for it (though for nowhere near as long as most) and because I couldn't then go straight on to the next book. If I'd been able to do so (assuming WOW was any good) I would have found DWD a bit of a lull, but probably would not have felt annoyed at it.

 

[Gumboot]

My criticism with the books doesn't relate to how long I had to wait. Yes, waiting is annoying, and yes, I'd prefer it if Martin could magically spit out a 1000 page novel in ten minutes, but I'm a realist, and I know how difficult it is to write something that big.

If, after waiting half a decade for the books, they were as full of twists and shocking events and great plot as the previous books, I'd have been happy. But they're not. The plot is floundering. I suspect (although I can't be sure) it's because some of the storylines are out of synch, so some of the more advanced ones are treading water while everyone else catches up.

In Daenerys' plotline, for example, the first vaguely significant event in ADWD doesn't happen until something like 3/4 of the way through the book.

All of this is exacerbated by the fact that traditionally narrative pacing should accelerate as a story nears the end, but in this case if anything it's slowing down.

Having to wait five years for 1000 pages of cranking narrative would be fine. Waiting five years for 200 pages of cranking narrative and 800 pages of fluff is a bit annoying.

 

[Gumboot]

I think it's also quite telling if you look at the distribution of chapters over the books. Arya is a telling example. In AGOT she has only 5 chapters, which is understandable, as the focus is undeniably on Eddard and his investigation. But in the following two books Arya has 10 and 13 chapters - being the second and most featured character respectively. She features in both AFFC and ADWD, and yet only has five chapters between the two - only one more than the newly introduced and totally irrelevant Victarion Greyjoy and Asha Greyjoy.

Meanwhile in AFFC and ADWD (remember we're over half way in the narrative and things should really be happening fast by now) Martin introduced no fewer than twelve new POV characters, constituting 50% of all POV characters across the entire series. Some of these are obvious and necessary additions such as Cersei and Brienne, but most of them are total waste of pages. It reminds me of reading the Forsaken chapters in WOT.

 

[Tywin]

I have read GOT and am currently in the middle of ACOK. I would just like to clear up a couple or more issues I have with the preceived dissappointment of AFFC. What seems to be the main issue is the pacing obviously but also the 5 year wait between ASOS and AFFC and also the gap to ADWD. Would it be a safe bet that considering my current status in the series that if I read them back to back that dissappointment would be a lot less if I read them immediately after one another? Just wandering. I don't know if the thread heading is valid considering my questions. Maybe one of the mods can change it accordingly

Keep reading the books and come back to this forum when you are complete.

Everything on this forum (to include the replies that you have already received) is a spoiler.

The pacing will be fine and enjoyable and you can be back with us shortly.

 

[biodroid]

The pacing will be fine and enjoyable and you can be back with us shortly.

LOL, it will take me a while to get through them I was thinking of re-reading GOT just to get into the flow again.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

Personally, I read through them all one after the other. I haven't had to wait for one to come out until after Dance. I have always felt that this has increased my enjoyment of the series, particularly the last book. Not that i liked aDwD over the other books, just that I liked it more than most other people did apparently. As for the pacing of the books, I think the people who feel that aFfC and aDwD slowed down too much have lost sight that this series was originally meant as a trillogy. I look at the series like this,

aGoT - aCoK would have been book one
aSoS - aFfC - aDwD Would be book two
tWoW - aDoS would have been book three

In many trilogies, there is a lull in the middle that gears up for the climax. It just so happens that we get to experience this lull over 2 huge books.

IMO, Reading the whole series one after another helps to mesh all the books together, to the point that I can't remember if certain things happened in the end of one book or the beginning of the next. It makes it easier to see the series as one huge book rather than five books in a series.

 

[biodroid]

So basically, and I stand corrected obviously, the books are more like a grouping of stories than really individual volumes like say Feists books or Eddings books. They are like continuations, the only problem is you have to wait a long time for those continuations.

 

[Gumboot]

Personally, I read through them all one after the other. I haven't had to wait for one to come out until after Dance. I have always felt that this has increased my enjoyment of the series, particularly the last book. Not that i liked aDwD over the other books, just that I liked it more than most other people did apparently. As for the pacing of the books, I think the people who feel that aFfC and aDwD slowed down too much have lost sight that this series was originally meant as a trillogy. I look at the series like this,

aGoT - aCoK would have been book one
aSoS - aFfC - aDwD Would be book two
tWoW - aDoS would have been book three

In many trilogies, there is a lull in the middle that gears up for the climax. It just so happens that we get to experience this lull over 2 huge books.

IMO, Reading the whole series one after another helps to mesh all the books together, to the point that I can't remember if certain things happened in the end of one book or the beginning of the next. It makes it easier to see the series as one huge book rather than five books in a series.

There was meant to originally be a gap of ~5 years or something in the middle of the story, so much of the period covered by AFFC and ADWD wasn't originally going to be in the story at all. Which is, I think, where the problem is. Obviously some characters would have been fine with a 5 year gap, while others needed more story time. That inherently leads to flawed books. I'm not concerned that he's "lost his way", and my expectation is that TWOW will be more like the first three books.

(Or first four, as I think of them, because here ASOS was released as two separate volumes)

I just wanted to point out that I still really enjoy the series, and would still rate the latter books above a lot of what I've read. I probably sound a bit harsh when discussing the flaws!

I am really, really curious to see what happens with the TV series once they hit the two problem books though (season 5 onwards).

 

[Lady of Winterfell]

My husband is reading the books, and has been able to read them all as soon as he wanted to. He is currently reading ADWD and seems to be enjoying it more than me (and I did have to wait for it). I will say the wait probably added to my disappoinment, but I also think it is just the book itself. It's not up to the standards of the other books in the series.

But please be careful on these boards. Spoilers are everywhere, and you have some great stuff coming your way.

AGOT, ACOK, and ASOS follow directly after each other, so they continue on what happened in the previous book. AFFC and ADWD are really one book. So ADWD doesn't continue on after AFFC, but runs concurrently with it. So AFFC and ADWD both follow ASOS. I hope that makes sense.

 

[Boaz]

bio, great topic. I don't know if anyone online has combined AFFC and ADWD into a chronological order in the last year and a half, but here is the Chrons version. Mayhaps this might help the pacing...

 

[Ursa major]

As for the pacing of the books, I think the people who feel that aFfC and aDwD slowed down too much have lost sight that this series was originally meant as a trillogy. I look at the series like this,

aGoT - aCoK would have been book one
aSoS - aFfC - aDwD Would be book two
tWoW - aDoS would have been book three

What I've seen (here on the Chrons, but I haven't got a link to it, yet), was that:

1. the original A Game of Thrones should have included what's now in AGoT, ACoK and ASoS;
2. the second book would have included what's now in AFfC and ADwD;
3. the third book would have covered what will now be (for the time being) in TWoW and ADoS.

(Given the size of just ASoS, GRRM was being quite optimistic when he started out.)


But I think this emphasises your main point: that AFfC and ADwD would have been the notorious "second book" of the planned trilogy, with all that means for pacing, breadth of story, number of concurrent story threads, and number of significant characters.

 

[Boaz]

Spoiler Alert for A Game of Thrones!

If AGOT, ACOK, and ASOS were combined. then the death of you-know-who in AGOT would not have had the impact because the death would have happened less than one-third of the way through the combined AGOT-ACOK-ASOS superbook. When it happens three-fourths of the way through AGOT, it is more effective.

 

[Ursa major]

And its effectiveness is also increased because the reader is able, with the three books, to hold one if them in their hands without straining one or more muscles or (in the case of a vast paperback) destroying the integrity of the binding.

 

[Boaz]

Unless you've got really big paws... like Ursa and me. But the pace really bogs down 'cause Ursa tends to get the pages stuck together with hunny.

Actually, my pacing was quite good during the six years I waited for ADWD.