E-Publishing Image Question

[DaveWallace]

I thought about putting this in the other image thread, but it's a substantially different topic IMO, so here it is:

I'm not an artist, so I need to get someone else to do my Amazon catalog/cover image for me, (I can at least convert a color image to GS in Gimp, so I've got that covered). Which for me means commissioning an artist to do the cover.

The question is whether I have to also buy the copyright for the image from the artist to use it in as a cover/catalog image on Amazon and other E-pub places? I'm kind of thinking yes, but I don't know.

I figure they own that copyright even if it depicts my own original characters at what I envision to be some substantial direction on my part. And my thinking is that since I'm using it to help generate income, that they would need to assign the copyright to me, for some compensation.

Am I right on this? Anyone with any experience with this, or any legal knowledge of the situation?

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

My understanding is that they would license you to use it on a limited basis (as cover art, and in promoting your book) but copyright and ownership of the artwork would remain with the artist.

 

[Templar]

I've just gone through this myself, and as a former TV producer I have a sketchy legal knowledge of rights.

If you do pay your designer it is reasonable to assume they allow you the copyright, although I believe technically they do own the rights to the work, even if you do help them a lot. It is standard in TV to put on invoices or purchase orders that the payment is for the copyright as well as the work done, but you don't own the copyright after payment, just the right to use it in the intended manner. If it was taken to any court of law and they saw you had paid your designer it would be reasonable of them to assume that you intended to buy the rights when you paid the designer. Of course if you then sell the cover to a big publishing house it would be reasonable for the designer to get more compensation for that, as the assumption would be the payment was for E-rights only.

It is easier if you have a close relationship with your designer of course, as they are less willing to mess you about at a later date. If you want (and if you're based in London) I can give you the number of the guy who did mine. It cost me £60 in total, and I'm very happy with his work. I'd link to it, but I don't think I am allowed!

(On another subject, Gimp is an awesome program! I'm rubbish at it, but I love that software as powerful as that is free! I'm a big fan of open source software. A little geeky about it to be honest!)

 

[DaveWallace]

Thanks guys! I'm still a bit confused as to the actual ownership of the copyright, (I was thinking later that it might be considered work for hire), but as long as I can use it for my catalog and cover image, I'm good.

As for a publishing house, I'd expect if one did pick me up later, they'd provide their own in-house cover to at least equal the one I'd use.

 

[Templar]

Technically the copyright is always held by the person who creates the image I believe, but you would be the licensee of the picture. It's common in TV to license things "In perpetuity", and the contracts I used to deal with used to stipulate "In all media known and yet to be invented" as well. For a while they included comments about having rights to resell throughout the universe as well, but people laughed at that one so many times they got rid of it.

I expect a publishing house would use their own cover. I just mention it because I really can see in the future publishing houses reverting to just publishing those books that are popular on E-readers (as they are arguably safer bets), and using cover art that is known to the potential readers, and cheaper to produce. Such a world would put the emphases on authors to "discover" themselves, and to all the leg work of building a fan base before the publisher gets involved. It would certainly make their business cheaper!

 

[DaveWallace]

Technically the copyright is always held by the person who creates the image I believe, but you would be the licensee of the picture. It's common in TV to license things "In perpetuity", and the contracts I used to deal with used to stipulate "In all media known and yet to be invented" as well. For a while they included comments about having rights to resell throughout the universe as well, but people laughed at that one so many times they got rid of it.

I expect a publishing house would use their own cover. I just mention it because I really can see in the future publishing houses reverting to just publishing those books that are popular on E-readers (as they are arguably safer bets), and using cover art that is known to the potential readers, and cheaper to produce. Such a world would put the emphases on authors to "discover" themselves, and to all the leg work of building a fan base before the publisher gets involved. It would certainly make their business cheaper!

Thanks, that clarifies things a bit more. Frankly, I think writing the thing was easier than navigating all these issues...

And thanks for the offer about the guy who did the work for you, but I have in mind someone already, (a comic book artist of all things, but they seem to be a bit better than a lot of the fantasy artists IMO, and I really want the catalog image to be great, since I view it as one of my primary marketing tools).

 

[DaveWallace]

So, just to clarify, by paying the commission fee, I would license the art for my intended use? I assume that I should specify in my communications with the artist that I intend to use it as a cover and catalog image for all e-publishing venues and in promotional material for the e-publishing sales?

And get him to agree to it in writing...?

 

[Templar]

Definitely. State clearly in an email that you wish to license it. To cover yourself properly you'd need a whole load of legalese, but any court would reasonably assume that an email that says something like "Just so we're clear, the payment is for licensing as well as production - is that OK?" means you have paid to license the product.

I shied away from a comic book artist for one reason: Terry Pratchett. Not that people would think I'm trying to copy him, or that I don't like his old Kirby covers (I love them!) but that they don't work very well as thumbnails. I read around about the pictures very carefully, and many people said the cover must work well as a thumbnail, and too much detail makes it hard to see anything. Check out any of the old Kirby covers on Amazon and you'll see what I mean.

In fact, as my cover was rendering I sat with my designer and critiqued all the amazon covers, and we could pick out several issues and problems with most of the ones in the fantasy section. There were a few stand out great ones, but a lot were a mush of detail that in a tiny picture all gets lost - crucially including the title in many cases.

(I don't doubt these books are outselling mine, but I wonder if a redesign might improve their sales)

 

[DaveWallace]

Definitely. State clearly in an email that you wish to license it. To cover yourself properly you'd need a whole load of legalese, but any court would reasonably assume that an email that says something like "Just so we're clear, the payment is for licensing as well as production - is that OK?" means you have paid to license the product.

I shied away from a comic book artist for one reason: Terry Pratchett. Not that people would think I'm trying to copy him, or that I don't like his old Kirby covers (I love them!) but that they don't work very well as thumbnails. I read around about the pictures very carefully, and many people said the cover must work well as a thumbnail, and too much detail makes it hard to see anything. Check out any of the old Kirby covers on Amazon and you'll see what I mean.

In fact, as my cover was rendering I sat with my designer and critiqued all the amazon covers, and we could pick out several issues and problems with most of the ones in the fantasy section. There were a few stand out great ones, but a lot were a mush of detail that in a tiny picture all gets lost - crucially including the title in many cases.

(I don't doubt these books are outselling mine, but I wonder if a redesign might improve their sales)

Great point about the detail. I didn't think of that. You might have just saved me from a mistake.

I guess that's something else I'll have to go through with him, to make sure the image looks good as a thumbnail. Still, his style is more clean lines than a great deal of detail.

And I'll definitely include all that about licensing in the e-mail.

Thanks again for the help!

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

If the artist is a professional one, he'll probably want a formal contract, and may have an agent to negotiate the terms.

Even if not, it would be best for both of you if you were to look around online, find out what such contracts usually look like, and use one that is acceptable to both parties.

Otherwise, you'll just be asking for trouble.

 

[Templar]

Teresa is right - a proper contract would be the watertight option. A lot of things can legally constitute a formal agreement, such as an email, but to cover all your bases you'd need to get a contract signed by both parties. You'd also need to state the payment on the contract because in my understanding (this from TV release forms which I used for years) a contract without payment rarely stands up in court. It's why legally in anything like a pre-nup they usually state "For the sum of £1...", even if that amount is rarely actually handed over.

It's well worth spending an evening rooting through Amazon and seeing which images work well as thumbnails, and which covers you think stand out. I sent a few to my designer, so he could assess the competition, and he instantly picked out ones that would entice him to buy the book, or at least look further.

Another thing to bear in mind is that the image may have to work on greyscale, as it would be viewed on a Kindle. I really was surprised how much effort it took to make a cover look half decent, and I was looking on Smashwords last night at some of the half-baked ones, and they looked utterly appalling. I read two of them as well (They were only shorts), to see what they were like, and they were rife with typos, poor grammar and mistakes. And these were stories designed to impress the reader into buying the full version. I had to stop myself giving them poor reviews and mentioning that they needed to re-read it with an eye to editing. Figured I didn't want to upset the locals this early in my campaign to sell books.

 

[DaveWallace]

Thanks Teresa, Templar. I will find a contract that fits just to see what it looks like, and in any case I will suggest one if he does not. I just want the rights to use it for e-book catalogs and covers plus promotional material related to e-book sales, but I do want to make sure all my legal bases are covered.

I am aware of the grayscale issue for Kindle. I had planned on taking the color image and running it through GIMP myself to get a good grayscale version for the cover.

That's appalling...er...interesting, about those stories on Smashwords, Templar! I would have thought that anyone putting something up that they expect to get paid for at some point would take the care to have someone else look through it just a bit...

 

[rdenning]

IN my case I do have a graphic artists/ book cover designer. WE do establish the agrement on what I am purchasing at the time I commission the work. So I clarify - CAN i use this for promotional work, can I use on Amazon as cover etc etc.
Cathy is extreemly cheap, efficient, fast and reliable and I recommend her.
She is at Avalon Graphics. She can produce artwork for really cool promotional material - bookmarks and postcards (which I then get printed at print 24 etc). She can lay out the cover to the specs needed by a printer.
So yes - the key is establsihing at the time what the payment will permit you to do with it. She has done several covers for me.

She is not a sketch artist or cartoon artist however - usually sourcing artwork and combining it. I also know and have used a sketch artist Gilliam Pearce for character sketches both for promotion and for interior artwork. I also know a great Austrian artist Andreas Resch who mainly works on board games but whose image for Great Fire (my board game) I also agreed (and paid him for ) that I could use for my book The Last Seal. All charge decent prices. I can recommend them if anyone wants links.