On Creating Imaginary Weapons: Science Fiction/Fantasy

[vector7]

So, i have created a world filled with all these creatures/species and fleshed out everything about the geography of the planet. But for those action scenes, i need them weapons. So here are the questions:

A) How logical should be the most outrageous weapons?

B) Should the author know about the weapons and give a satisfying explanation to its working? [A laser rail gun, the size of a palm having a recoil that would throw a man away by a considerable feet (think MIB!)]

C) Should the weapons stay in the original side?
[Like the technology that is being used today}

D) For fantasy, you don't go beyond swords and maces. So what is the boudary in creating weapons for Sci-fi and fantasy?

I know there are lots of questions. I think these could well be answered as most of the stories/novles would surely have action sequences.

 

[chrispenycate]

A rail gun (linear accelerator is going to be big. Oh, upping the frequency in the coils can shrink it considerably from the one I built in uni, but not down to palm size. A laser powered projectile weapon will have very little recoil (appreciable in microgravity, but not on a planetary surface.

Recoil will always be proportional to the momentum of the projectile, and a miniature weapon can't contain many large bullets. so either it's a single shot or, to throw someone back like that (in a gravity field) the ammunition must leave the weapon at a very high velocity; high enough to vaporise it in atmosphere. Unless your ammunition is very dense (like neutronium or quantum black hole dense), in which case the weapon is small but very heavy, and easily detected.

The physics of your space drive (assuming space flight is a part of your universe) is likely to reappear in your weaponry; mankind is extraordinarily talented in using every invention to destroy his neighbours. So, if you use space distortion to achieve multiple lightspeed, someone will develop a way of using it to distort a small portion of the space inside one of your antagonists, which is not generally conducive to further existence.

Yes, it's SCIENCE fiction; you can take your technology until it is indistinguishable from magic, but it should be consistent.

 

[vector7]

Hmmm. But in the case of near future stories, the weapons should have the technology that is currently in existence. In that case, how authentic should be the weapons and how clear should be the description of them?

[For example, we take a M4 machine gun set 5 years in the future. How realistic should be the description and its usage?]

 

[Culhwch]

Realistic enough to convinve the general audience. That's the key - making it convincng. It deoesn't have to be likely, you just have to sell it. Of course, the more far-fetched something is, the harder it's going to be to make it convincing.

 

[Kei]

If you're wanting to bring some realism to the science in your science fiction, sometimes it is good to read about these things in general.

Michio Kaku has a great website with lots of interesting goodies, and a book called "Physics of the Impossible" about how many things in Science Fiction could be realistically created. Reading these type of things might help you to reverse engineer for your own creations.

I personally enjoy reading a story where the author has taken the time to make the physics of his world (science fiction or fantasy), and everything inside that world, plausible to me. A little explanation is nice- not too much or it gets boring, but as the person above me said, not to far-fetched either.

 

[The Judge]

So, i have created a world filled with all these creatures/species and fleshed out everything about the geography of the planet. But for those action scenes, i need them weapons. So here are the questions:

A) How logical should be the most outrageous weapons?

As everyone has said, there should be some internal logic at the very least. If, like most of us, you don't have Chris's expertise in such matters, read a round a little if you are creating something a bit out of the ordinary.

B) Should the author know about the weapons and give a satisfying explanation to its working? [A laser rail gun, the size of a palm having a recoil that would throw a man away by a considerable feet (think MIB!)]

It certainly helps if you know something of the weapons you create, but I don't think you need to give much of an explanation of how they work. In fact that could be very counterproductive -- to the non-technophiles like me, it will be boring, but the intelligent, like Chris, will see the mistakes of elementary physics and will be unable to suspend disbelief any further.

C) Should the weapons stay in the original side?
[Like the technology that is being used today}

Not quite sure what you meant by this. If you mean species A always has splot guns and species B always has daser doodahs, then unless the doodahs require species B DNA to operate, then no they would not remain fixed like this. As soon as one society creates something, its technology will be stolen -- literally so in many cases.

D) For fantasy, you don't go beyond swords and maces. So what is the boudary in creating weapons for Sci-fi and fantasy?

The limit is your imagination!


Have fun.

J

 

[fkatona]

You are right that they have to be on par with the technology. Though historically, weapons, or the military in general, have driven the pace of technology. The internet was created as a defense communication network. We have nuclear power because of the atom bomb. So the weapons can be a bit more advanced.

But only advanced for the best funded! Military powers will always have the most advanced technology. Your average law enforcement will run around with the same junk on the black market. If the wandering hero can pull out a super weapon, someone with more cash/power may be able to use something better, but will at least have the same kind.

In addition, people will always go for the best, even if certain weapons are important culturally. The Japanese highly respected their swords and their warriors, but at some point decided that guns would just work better.

When mixing magic, keep in mind that people will go for the best. I'm sure there are creative combinations of the two. But if a spell can stop bullets, guns would become useless.

Just my two cents

 

[Nik]

Uh, IMHO, nano-engineering and 'magic' would be a good pairing: If you want to see these mixed well, have a glance through Stross' 'Laundry' books.

IIRC, one incident has bullets micro-engraved with a pattern and runes that will enable them to pierce 'shields', kill zombies etc. Another has villain seeding scratch-n-sniff make-up samples with rune-lithographed silicon flecks from his 60nm production line for 'similarity' surveillance bugging...

Let's not get into their optical-bench pentagrams...

If you hold to Clarke's Law about 'magic is covert hi-tech', you're fairly safe with the physics. Even something like a light-sabre can be hand-waved as a resonant plasma discharge close-coupled to a phased array transmitter (sic). Perhaps, like a wall-wart, it doesn't draw much power from supply until it 'connects'. I still cannot figure why they didn't use combat shot-guns...

 

[Aes]

D) For fantasy, you don't go beyond swords and maces. So what is the boudary in creating weapons for Sci-fi and fantasy?

You don't? Crude guns are quite often used in fantasy settings, as well as a variety of zany weapons, powered by magic--high-velocity orbs that home in on their target, exploding arrows, etc.

The "boundary" is really only as limiting as you make it, and science fiction is pretty much going to give you more freedom than any other genre when it comes to weapons; if it can kill something in an even semi-believable way, it's fair game.

 

[ctg]

You don't? Crude guns are quite often used in fantasy settings, as well as a variety of zany weapons, powered by magic--high-velocity orbs that home in on their target, exploding arrows, etc.

The "boundary" is really only as limiting as you make it, and science fiction is pretty much going to give you more freedom than any other genre when it comes to weapons; if it can kill something in an even semi-believable way, it's fair game.

I disagree. In fantasy, you can use magic to create exactly the same effect you would see in SF guns and ammos. However, in Fantasy you have an edge to create unique weapons by using magic. Who would say now to real bow shooting love arrows? Or to a blunderbuss that shoots out candies?

 

[vector7]

Aes and CTG, you are suggesting weapons that have their quality or qualities enhanced by magic. For example would be the sword Brisingr used by Eragon?

 

[Interference]

The AK47 in current use around the world of 2009/10 is barely distinguishable from the original AK47 manufactured in - erm, 1947

When something works, you don't mess with it, so my suggestion would be to find what you want your weapon to do first, that is different from what any other currently available weapon already does. If it's for killing people, bullets are probably still okay unless you want the body to vanish afterwards in which case phasers seem to be your best bet . Maybe a little improvement on the accuracy/aiming front wouldn't go amiss (Robocop). If it's for stunning civilians during periods of unrest, then think of what the law enforcement agencies would ask of their weapons manufacturers ("we want it to pick out anyone within a mile radius wearing a blue shirt and not hurt them"). If it's intended as a means of decimating a population, call it the /10 and let the reader work out the rest.

Finally, I wouldn't be bothered going into the specs. Judge has already given two perfectly valid and insightful reasons for this avoidance. Furthermore, though, like the Star Trek Nerdiverse, if the idea catches on the fans will work it all out for you.

best of luck,

S

 

[Pyan]

unless the doodahs require species B DNA to operate, then no they would not remain fixed like this. As soon as one society creates something, its technology will be stolen -- literally so in many cases.

The multi-purpose guns used by the Colonial Defence Forces in John Scalzi's Old Man's War series have this - each one is "attuned" to the DNA of the soldier it' assigned to, so it can't be taken away and used by an enemy.

The technology to do this can be stolen - but it won't affect the weapons already in use by the CDS troops.

 

[dustinzgirl]

The multi-purpose guns used by the Colonial Defence Forces in John Scalzi's Old Man's War series have this - each one is "attuned" to the DNA of the soldier it' assigned to, so it can't be taken away and used by an enemy.

The technology to do this can be stolen - but it won't affect the weapons already in use by the CDS troops.

Yes, but there could be something that could do that...a DNA replicator?

Also, moved this thread to workshop.

And there is also lots of fantasy that uses magic and advanced weaponry.

Like---Shadowrun.

 

[chrispenycate]

having a recoil that would throw a man away by a considerable feet

I think you misused the word “recoil” ; that’s the backward force applied to the firer of a projectile weapon when the ammunition sets out the other way (as in “the first time I fired a shotgun the recoil knocked me into a stiing position”) A rifle, a pistol, bow, railgun; the momentum to be transferred to the target must be absorbed by the weapon user. Generally, the “equal and opposite reaction” law means that this will be equal to the impact the projectile makes on its destination, but this is not necessarily the case; rocket ammunition, laser propulsion, even “recoilless” firearms reduce it by a fair margin.

For fantasy, you don't go beyond swords and maces.

That's not necessarily the case. You are not forced to put fantasy in a mediaeval western European setting; urban fantasy, Victorian, renaissance, any chosen historical or totally imagined time period is acceptable. And while swords are traditional, I've read of enchanted muskets, revolvers, maxim guns – if there's a personalised weapon, somebody's probably magiced it (which says more about warriors than magic).

And since there have been walled fortresses there have been siege engines, in parallel evolution.

But the real high-tech weapons in fantasy are magical in origin, and have no need to be jealous of anything SF has thrown up. Look at Vedic weaponry; you can wipe out cities with them. Mind control, invulnerable armour, seeker/tracker arrows, just about any transformation of one lifeform into another…

It's not essential that your hero be magically virgin, either. Sure, traditionally the mighty-thewed warrior overcomes the better educated, brighter but less muscular adversary by brute force and viciousness and gets to write the history books that say how nasty the guy/witch/ancient god was.

In all probability the bronze-age preferences date from the period when fantasy wasfirst being written down, otherwise the 'sword' references would have been of flint hand axes, or fire-hardened spears.

 

[Toby Frost]

Thoughts:

A) How logical is the setting? In a really wacky environment you could have a gun that turns people to string (or a spell that turns them to frogs), but this is clearly getting close to comedy. The opposite end is that sort of hardcore military SF where the author spends so manypages describing his S-15/280 light assault semi-autonymous flechette rifle (recoilless), you end up suspecting he has issues.

That said, setting doesn't just mean immediate environment. A harpoon isn't as good as a gun unless you're underwater. A planet whose inhabitants are allergic to metal, or who follow a religion that regards ranged combat as cowardly, may use different weapons to us. It all depends what your setting dictates, which isn't a very helpful answer but I think must be the right one.

I suppose there is a bottom line re physics. The best way to devastate an area at present is probably to radiate it, but in other circumstances, an engineered viral weapon or a shoved asteroid could be much more effective.

B) The author should know enough (and/or reveal enough) not to jar the reader. There's no need to my mind to go into details about ammo type etc unless it's necessary. (See the conversation in Aliens where it's revealed that the pulse rifle ammo will blow up the reactor. We didn't need to know until then so we weren't told). We're never told how the suspended-animation machines work because it isn't needed at all. "Don't say anything daft" is probably the answer, but I've never quite got the hang of that!

C) I'm not really sure I understand the question. Surely using modern weapons wouldn't be very original?

D) Actually you can. Fantasy is not limited to Tolkein/D&D-type settings. As Chris says, there is no obligation to set Fantasy in a Western-medieval world. To my mind such limitations artifically weaken the genre.

 

[J-WO]

C) Should the weapons stay in the original side?
[Like the technology that is being used today}

If a war gets protracted and dirty then this often happens. But the emphasis is not on whats the best weapon so much as what weapon can be trusted to last. Vietnam is a classic example- the American GI had the best rifle in the world in terms of 'hi-tech', but many opted for the enemies AK-47 if they could get one, because it could be trusted not to jam. Given all the mud and moisture out there, I suppose this links with what T-Two said about environmental considerations.

It depends on the weapon's use too. Hand grenades, for instance, are the definitive one shot weapon, requiring next to no upkeep. On the western front of both world wars, grenades were constantly being picked up and used by either side--a scene oddly reminiscent of Halo.
In a future universe, I wouldn't think anyone would bother with a D.N.A checker on a grenade, due to the cost effectiveness of such an idea. I'd be tempted to say the same for guns, too. When you add up the resources used to fit out every soldiers gun, well-- its money better spent elsewhere.

 

[chrispenycate]

In a future universe, I wouldn't think anyone would bother with a D.N.A checker on a grenade, due to the cost effectiveness of such an idea. I'd be tempted to say the same for guns, too. When you add up the resources used to fit out every soldiers gun, well-- its money better spent elsewhere.

'Cost effectiveness' is dependant on manufacturing techniques; some of the electronics incorporated into ordinary domestic appliances would have been ridiculously expensive fifteen twenty years ago, not to mention heavy and clumsy.

How about breeding an organism from some parasite that can 'recognise' its host? Then incorporating it into the aiming circuitry, or something, so the weapon was useless when it didn't co-operate? (I've got a lousy gun.) Certainly, the thing might die if it was separated from its owner for more than a few months, but I suspect the biggest handicap would be that if you lost your weapon you couldn't pick up one from a fallen comrade.

There is a whole collection of things which, while totally unthinkable now could become quite simple and practical if manufacturing were by, say, nanotechnology; just look at what can be done by automated mass production, relative to a hand crafted artisanal piece turned out by a specialist gunsmith.

 

[J-WO]

Fairpoint, Chris; there is the whole manufacturing techniques/ progress side of things. But there's something about the DNA profiling gun that doesn't sit right with me still. The added level of needless complexity (Your dying critter, for example, or the inability to pick up your comrades) in an object used for life and death situations, maybe. Keep It Simple etc...

There's also the 'shutting the stable door after...' factor, too. Ideally, the enemy should never get anywhere near your gun if you're using it right. If your enemy picks up your gun you have lost that particular fight, anyway. Covering failure is a poor strategy compared to maximizing success. Maximize your successes and the failures disappear pretty quick.

 

[dreamhunter]

When mixing magic, keep in mind that people will go for the best. I'm sure there are creative combinations of the two. But if a spell can stop bullets, guns would become useless.

Speaking of imagination, magic, a spell stopping bullets etc., I just recalled a scene in an ancient (by now) Avengers episode, where one of the characters (can't remember the actor's name now, maybe Gareth Edwards?) managed to parry, yes, parry, the bullet from a gun.

He did so by synchronising his hand movement to perfection with the projectile of the bullet. It was like, he was so fast and agile, that he just struck the bullet from one side, so it just grazed his hand, and that altered its direction just enough to miss him.

Awesome, or what?