Benjen as the Three Eyed Crow?

[Wiggum]

I can't take credit for this.

It was a poster on another forum I moderate, it's from the long long ago, but while searching the site, it's an old thread I came across it.

I think he makes a good argument.

Well, my theory is that Benjen Stark is the three-eyed crow. Here's why.

1. He hasn't been found, so he can still be alive.

2. There was a cache of obsidian found near the Fist of the First Men. Jon supposes this was left by his uncle, but it was definitely left by a black brother because they are wrapped in a black cloak. What ranger would know to even hoard obsidian? It seems the cache was meant to be found, and meant for the Night's Watch. If Benjen was the three-eyed crow he would have some knowledge of the Others and the power of dragonglass.

3. I think Coldhands is a revived corpse, much like Catelyn and Lord Beric. Both Cat and Beric don't seem to heal and Beric complains of losing memories of his living life. It is as though he was frozen at death(s). Whereas Cat and Beric were revived by R'hllor (however it's spelled), Coldhands was revived by the power of the old gods--by Benjen Stark.

4. Martin hints at other skills that Benjen has in a response to an email: Westeros - The Citadel. He writes

Brandon was the best of the Starks with sword in hand, and the best jouster as well. But Benjen has other skills that serve him well as a ranger... and Ned was likely the best battle commander.

Perhaps this means nothing, but you never know with Martin.

So, some ranger knows that obsidian can be used in the upcoming battle against the heart of winter and the Long Night that Never Ends, and leaves a cache at the Fist for his brothers to find. But the cache is hidden fairly well and not on the Fist itself, so it takes something special to find it, like a direwolf with a special link to his owner. The perfect setup for a three-eyed crow, who can guide the direwolf. Next, the three-eyed crow has a special interest in the Starks and sends a message to the Reeds, known friends of the Starks (Howland Reed fought at Ned's side in the war for Robbert's throne). Jojen has a green dream and says the three-eyed crow sent him to Bran. Bran is visited by the three-eyed crow, as well.

And lastly, the three-eyed crow is a crow, a name often given to Brothers of the Night's Watch. The fact that Coldhands seems to have been a brother as well only reinforces this

 

[the smiling weirwood]

I think its likely.

 

[Wiggum]

I figured the first response would be TK or Boaz telling me how many times this has been discussed, then pointing out links to those previous discussions, and then stating they didn't mind talking about it again

While Martin has set up Benjen as the dark horse, so to speak, I really don't think this will come to fruition.

Personally, and it'll go against popular belief, I think he's straight up dead.

 

[TK-421]

Wiggs, my dear dairyland friend, I will now point you to the following threads:
Bran Chapter AGOT with the three-eyed crow

Benjen Stark-Coldhand's

Bran and his future???

Who is Coldhands?

Of course, we can discuss it again. Anything to indulge while we wait patiently for something new to discuss.

I don't think Benjen is dead. I'm not sure if he is the 3-eyed crow. He could be but I believe it may be more than that. The Children of the Forest are involved in this somehow.

 

[Wiggum]

There's an ideal that Benjen is alive, but I haven't seen much proof.

And yes, I meant ideal, not idea.

Benjen was and is a figure of mythos within Jon's mind, and the Crows.

Outside of that.....

 

[Boaz]

I figured the first response would be TK or Boaz telling me how many times this has been discussed, then pointing out links to those previous discussions, and then stating they didn't mind talking about it again

Wiggs, You've got to stop posting like that when I'm drinking... now, I've snorted 7-Up all over my keyboard....

TK, You've got to stop beating me to the punch... although I don't mind you actually being the research monkey.

I can't take credit for this.

So, some ranger knows that obsidian can be used in the upcoming battle against the heart of winter and the Long Night that Never Ends, and leaves a cache at the Fist for his brothers to find. But the cache is hidden fairly well and not on the Fist itself, so it takes something special to find it, like a direwolf with a special link to his owner. The perfect setup for a three-eyed crow, who can guide the direwolf.

Okay, so what if guiding Ghost to the cache at the Fist was not the first time Benjen/Coldhands had worked through Jon's direwolf? What if Benjen/Coldhands guided Ghost to find Jafer's hand when Jon and Sam went to say their vows? And how did Ghost finally get back to Castle Black... did B/C guide him? Why didn't Jon even sense Ghost for the longest time? Arya somtimes sensed Nymeria at a distance of hundreds of miles (as it seems to me). Mayhaps B/C's power dampened Jon's awareness or B/C's connection with Ghost superseded Jon's... I seem to remember that at Robert's feast, in Winterfell, that Ghost took to Benjen straight away...

The timeline is hard to work out, but it seems that the Three-Eyed Crow first visited Bran around the time of Benjen's departure from Castle Black. Did Benjen die and get reanimated by the Three-Eyed Crow? By someone else, as yet unknown? The Children of the Forest? If the Children turn out to be little green men, I'm not going to be very happy.

 

[Charming Serpent]

GRRM said "Elves have been done to death. The Children of the Forest are ...well ....children."

The Wall has spells woven into it that do not let "things" pass. Old faerie creatures, shadows, and so forth and so on, i suppose. Perhaps that is why Jon and Ghosts connection was broken??

 

[viZion]

Perhaps that is why Jon and Ghosts connection was broken??

Does anyone remember exactly where Jon was when the connection was broken? I can't remember. Were he and Ghost on opposite sides of the Wall at that point? I remember thinking that distance must be the reason why Jon couldn't sense Ghost. However, distance doesn't seem to be affecting Arya and Nymeria's connection. Or is it? Man, my memory is getting fuzzy again. I would do another reread but I'll hold on that until we get a date on ADWD's release.

 

[Charming Serpent]

I think he realized he hadnt thought of Ghost or felt him after he had crossed the Wall. In one chapter they were nearing the Wall or had come upon it and he told Ghost that this was as far as they could go together and to get to Castle Black, i think.

 

[slik_rik]

hey all im another newbie to these forums "been reading for a while and finally decided to post..." etc etc

anyway i just thought i'd put in my 2 cents worth if u dont mind!

i remember reading one of the books (not sure cos they're my cousins copies not mine) and i think i remember jon and the old bear running into some others and the old bear sying something like "did u see who that was?" to jon

If this did happen then could someone please find the quote and if it didnt then ...meh!

P.s. is it tru u cant criticise me till my 18th post or something

P.s.s. Im a big fan boaz and TKs pic both sweet and creepy!

 

[slik_rik]

oh yeah thats important cos i believe (if this did occur) that it might hav been an other who was once benjen or possible someone else of great importance!

 

[Charming Serpent]

Are u sure I can't criticize him until the 18th post?? *Tries to look innocently at the other Forum delinquents*

 

[Boaz]

Welcome slik rik!!!

First, you are protected under the Noob Bill of Rights and the Newbie Protection Act of 2005. But that only lasts until your eighteenth post... then you're on your own.

Second, we don't mind anyone's two cents. We may agree with you, we may doubt you, and we may contradict you, but we won't call you names... unless you're a complete loon like TK.

Third, don't feed my ego. Just like feeding Grizzly Bears makes them lose their fear of humans, feeding my ego will make me lose my fear of normal posters... As soon as it becomes all about me, I lose control... and I'll go off and rule the universe from beyond the grave!

CS and viZ, I think you're on to something regarding the Wall blocking Jon's connection to his wolf. I had not thought of that. So this means that Melisandre's usual powers of perception will also be foiled by the Wall? She may never even feel the Others approaching... hmmm.

 

[slik_rik]

thanks boaz

so that leaves me with 15 posts were i can say and wat i like and u cant criticise me 4 it -i plan to use these posts effectively pplz <insert evil laugh and evil laugh emoticon here>!

 

[Charming Serpent]

Well Boaz, I would have to guess that would depend if Melisandre is behind the Wall, in front of the Wall or on top of the Wall.

If she is behind/beyond then I would say that her Shadow spawn and perhaps a few if not all her other tricks could not pass to/fro just as they could not at Storms End due to old spells woven into it.

In front of/beyond the wall, well, she is past it and can do as she likes as per se with her burning the **** out of the eagle.

On the wall, I would assume she could do as she pleases as well, but I have no clue on that one. lol

 

[TK-421]

Welcome Slik! I have been called sweet and creepy before but never called a "loon" in the thread. Mind you, the Common Loon is my favourite and the provincial bird of Ontario. Reminds me of lounging on my inflatable raft at the cottage in the summer. Although the helmet gets in the way of the beer drinking one days at the lake.

"I'm just looney for Boaz"


Back to the issue at hand. It seems to me that Jon's warging abilities were not as strong as Arya or Bran's. And Ghost is certainly not like the other direwolves. Take the following foreshadowing from AGOT:
Halfway across the bridge, Jon pulled up suddenly.

"What is it, Jon?" their lord father asked.

"Can't you hear it?"

Bran could hear the wind in the trees, the clatter of their hooves on the ironwood planks, the whimpering of his hungry pup, but Jon was listening to something else.

"There," Jon said. He swung his horse around and galloped back across the bridge. They watched him dismount where the direwolf lay dead in the snow, watched him kneel. A moment later he was riding back to them, smiling.

"He must have crawled away from the others," Jon said.

"Or been driven away," their father said, looking at the sixth pup. His fur was white, where the rest of the litter was grey. His eyes were as red as the blood of the ragged man who had died that morning. Bran thought it curious that this pup alone would have opened his eyes while the others were still blind.

"An albino," Theon Greyjoy said with wry amusement. "This one will die even faster than the others."

Jon Snow gave his father's ward a long, chilling look. "I think not, Greyjoy," he said. "This one belongs to me."

 

[The Imp]

First off, about the original "theory

Well, my theory is that Benjen Stark is the three-eyed crow. Here's why.

1. He hasn't been found, so he can still be alive.

2. There was a cache of obsidian found near the Fist of the First Men. Jon supposes this was left by his uncle, but it was definitely left by a black brother because they are wrapped in a black cloak. What ranger would know to even hoard obsidian? It seems the cache was meant to be found, and meant for the Night's Watch. If Benjen was the three-eyed crow he would have some knowledge of the Others and the power of dragonglass.

3. I think Coldhands is a revived corpse, much like Catelyn and Lord Beric. Both Cat and Beric don't seem to heal and Beric complains of losing memories of his living life. It is as though he was frozen at death(s). Whereas Cat and Beric were revived by R'hllor (however it's spelled), Coldhands was revived by the power of the old gods--by Benjen Stark.

4. Martin hints at other skills that Benjen has in a response to an email: Westeros - The Citadel. He writes

Quote:
Brandon was the best of the Starks with sword in hand, and the best jouster as well. But Benjen has other skills that serve him well as a ranger... and Ned was likely the best battle commander.
Perhaps this means nothing, but you never know with Martin.

So, some ranger knows that obsidian can be used in the upcoming battle against the heart of winter and the Long Night that Never Ends, and leaves a cache at the Fist for his brothers to find. But the cache is hidden fairly well and not on the Fist itself, so it takes something special to find it, like a direwolf with a special link to his owner. The perfect setup for a three-eyed crow, who can guide the direwolf. Next, the three-eyed crow has a special interest in the Starks and sends a message to the Reeds, known friends of the Starks (Howland Reed fought at Ned's side in the war for Robbert's throne). Jojen has a green dream and says the three-eyed crow sent him to Bran. Bran is visited by the three-eyed crow, as well.

5 And lastly, the three-eyed crow is a crow, a name often given to Brothers of the Night's Watch. The fact that Coldhands seems to have been a brother as well only reinforces this

1- Does NOT logically follow. It looks particularly silly if you look at it alone, apart from the rest of the reasons listed. Each reason doesn't need to be a stand-alone argument but SHOULD be persuavie and add to the "gestalt" of the theory.

2- Why does it become automatic that the cahce was left by "a black brother"? DOn't we know enough about GRRM to know that unless yhou see someone actually do soemthing it's not necessarily true that it happened or happened the way it seemed to happen?

3- See number 1. Why does it follow that IF Coldhands is a revived corpse he's Benjin?

4- Benjin has other skills. So what? It's a huge leap to go from "he has other skills" to Bejin is the 3 eyed crow.

5 Another leap without a basis in logic. The 3 eyed crow must be Benjin becuase we assume that Colhands is Bejin and we assume that Coldhands was a brother of the Knight's Watch and and the 3 eyed crow is Coldhands, etc. Something isn't true becuase we just say that it is.

My thoughts on the 3 eyed crow are as follows. I've always thought of this "entity as being Bran's third (inner) eye. Maybe a manifiestation of the pack spirit that I think will ultimately connect and reunite the Starks. I'm not sure that the 3 eyed crow exists as a physical being as much as I tghink that it's The spirit of the Stark's talking to Bran, or maybe Bran's unconcious talking to Bran. GRRM loves his red herrings, and I think that this may be one of them. I'm not sure that we'll ever actually meet the 3 eyed crow, although I AM interesting in the Coldhands character and how that plays out. It may be Bejin, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[TK-421]

If Coldhands were Benjen, then Bran would of recognized his uncle, non? We concluded long ago that this was not the case but that Coldhands was a seperate character from Benjen. Whether he be wildling or a Black Brother or some undead character à la Beric or Stoneheart will soon be revealed in ADWD (I assume).

The Imp's final remarks about the 3-eyed crow not necessarily being a physical being is interesting and a possibility I would entertain. However, this does not seem GRRM's style and my gut feeling is that the 3-eyed crow is a person with secrets that will potentially make Bran one of the important persons for the future of the realm.

But I'm looney remember. Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs kind of looney so don't trust what I say.

 

[Wiggum]

Froot Loops > Cocoa Puffs

 

[Charming Serpent]

I've always agreed that the 3-eyed crow isn't actually a physical real world creature, but someone with knowledge etc etc
More of an avatar of that person per se, like mine own, but mine eats birds btw.