Have you noticed...

[YoYo]

I don't know if there's such a thread in the forums, but I was too lazy to check..
So, while reading all that Garion stuff, have you noticed the lack of surnames? Silly question, everyone has...
Anyway, in my opinion it just simplifies the book... and I'm saying it with a negative meaning... I'm not really an Edding's fan, I don't even quite like his books - compared to other series they seem too cliched to me.

Any opinions?

 

[Talysia]

I enjoyed reading the Belgariad, and I don't think that the lack of surnames affects it in a negative way. It was written a long time ago compared to a lot of fantasy fiction, so back then the cliches wouldn't have seemed so noticeable. A lot of it is fairly simple reading, but that just makes it easier for me to get into the story - especially since it doesn't take much effort.

 

[The Ace]

Eddings was attempting to create Medieval Europe, a time when surnames were very uncommon. Trade or place names were standard at this time to distinguish between individuals, but it took centuries for the formal surname to evolve. Even today it is common practice to refer to the nobility by titles rather than names.

 

[HappyHippo]

the nearest he comes to a 'surname' is the 'Gar' in Belgarath, Polgara, Garion (etc).

The book - according to the blurb - was written to experiment with the author's philosophical ideas regarding the genre (quote, unquote) so maybe he either didn't expect to need surnames, or he didn't think it was necessary to the story.

Also, quick thought, it would have spoilt the big reveal concerning Garion's heritage! Introducing 'Garion Lastgreathopeoftheworld'.... he might have cottoned on to his secret identity a bit earlier than planned. mwahahahaha!

 

[The Ace]

the nearest he comes to a 'surname' is the 'Gar' in Belgarath, Polgara, Garion (etc).



Also, quick thought, it would have spoilt the big reveal concerning Garion's heritage! Introducing 'Garion Lastgreathopeoftheworld'.... he might have cottoned on to his secret identity a bit earlier than planned. mwahahahaha!

Love it HH

 

[HappyHippo]

One aims to please, kind sir

 

[Talysia]

Lol HappyHippo!

Now that I think about it, Eddings does dabble with a few surnames in the most recent series, The Younger Gods. Most of the Maag characters have surnames - Sorgan Hook-Beak, Kryda Ham-Hand, Skell Jodanson etc..

I wasn't the biggest fan of the series, though. I've just got a fairly good memory.

 

[YoYo]

Well, maybe you're right that this makes the books easier to read compared to other where you have to remember piles of names... but my point was that it's not common and actually, I had nothing else to do than posting a thread

 

[Talysia]

Very true, YoYo.

 

[sayn]

You seem to forget Margravine Liselle and her uncle, Margravine...something. Also King of the Murgos, Taur Urgas, and King of the Nadraks, Drosta lek Thun. Almost forgot, the Gar in Belgarath, Polgara, and Garion is just coincidence. If anything it would be the Bel or Pol that comes close to being a surname because you only see those prefixes in their family.

 

[ghost8772]

ummmm. Margrave and Margravine were nobility titles. yes Garath was "of the village of Gara" Mainly he was close to the medieval idea of children being named for parents, though he seems to have avoided beginngins of surnames of being "famous person's name"son. Taur Urgas and Cho Hag are multiple names, but its possible that like Ran Borune, they are imperial names. It could be that Urgit bucked the system and he should ALSO have been Taur Urgas, while Hettar could become Cho Het.

Edit: caught a few typos

 

[sayn]

I've been re-reading the books and I just caught my error on the Margrave/Margravine thing this morning. I did happen to find some surnames, though. The Borunes, Honethites, Horbites, Anadiles, Vorduvians, etc., all from the Tolnedran empire. Also in Polgara the Sorceress, there is a family line that rules Asturia after Mangaran dies, the Oriman family.

 

[Princess Ivy]

sayn, that would be with noble families - common families don't seem to have had surnames. although it's worth noting that none of the characters in the belgarid were ordinary people. at one point even durnick is held as 'the smith' which is explained to be almost a title of nobility in sendaria.

edit to note: with the possible exception of garion's childhood friends and farm companions.

 

[white_wanderer]

It continuies in the sparhawk books. The exception to this is King Wargun's offspring is referred to as Avin Wargunsson, therefore showing how surnames can be made.

 

[devilsgrin]

ummmm. Margrave and Margravine were nobility titles. yes Garath was "of the village of Gara" Mainly he was close to the medieval idea of children being named for parents, though he seems to have avoided beginngins of surnames of being "famous person's name"son. Taur Urgas and Cho Hag are multiple names, but its possible that like Ran Borune, they are imperial names. It could be that Urgit bucked the system and he should ALSO have been Taur Urgas, while Hettar could become Cho Het.

Edit: caught a few typos

From what i've gathered... Taur is the Murgo equivalent of King... and Urgas is in reference to the Dynasty - The Urga dynasty (much like the Borune dynasty). Technically, though referred to as king, Taur Urgas/and later Urgit, are rather more like Supreme General of Cthol Murgas, than King of Cthol Murgos (remember the country is divided into Military Districts). As to Urgit, it may indeed have been meant for him to be called Taur Urgas as well... however for both US, for Eddings, and for Urgit himself, it may have been necessary for a different name to differentiate Taur Urgit from Taur Urgas...
Cho is just part of the name... not a title... its just common among the Algars to have kings named Cho (insert random single syllabic name here) - kind of like the Arends with the endless line of Korudullins and Mayaseranas...as a means of comfort in repetition for the subjects...

 

[YeOldeWolf]

You seem to forget Margravine Liselle and her uncle, Margravine...something. Also King of the Murgos, Taur Urgas, and King of the Nadraks, Drosta lek Thun. Almost forgot, the Gar in Belgarath, Polgara, and Garion is just coincidence. If anything it would be the Bel or Pol that comes close to being a surname because you only see those prefixes in their family.

Actually I remember reading Eddings say somewhere that the "Pol" in Polgara was the female equivalent of "Bel" for males. Not withstanding the fact that her sister was named Beldaran. However, we must remember that Polgara was a sorceress and Beldaran was a normal human. I believe therefore, that the "Bel" (meaning "beloved") meant she was the beloved of Belgarath and not Aldur. There were consistencies that flowed through the names of Belgarath's decendants most notably Daran and Geran. Both Geran and Garion are clearly derivative of "Garath" which was the old Wolf's name before he became the beloved of Aldur.

As for the use of last names. Margravine was the female equivalent of Margrave and these words were titles of nobility. Actually there were plenty of other titles of nobility but they were only used to acknowledge the lineage of certain persons when necessary. Certainly our own human nobility titles were what led to surnames for all. For instance, Princess Diana was of the House of Spencer, a very common name amongst commoners of British ancestry. Even Durnik was called "Goodman" as a title of honor for a commoner. Certainly they would have their share of Smiths and Carpenters and Coopers and Shipwrights and Wainwrights etc.

But the truth of the matter is that Eddings really did not use surnames to any real extent in any of the Belgarion related books. I believe that this was done to make us, the readers, feel comfortable around our heroes, like we could have a cup of tea with Polgara or break some bread and quaff some Ale with Barak. This is put to good use in soap operas where mob bosses and District Attorneys are always referred to by their first names even by people who are supposedly their enemies. This is to make the viewer feel a kind of friendship for the bad guy or whatever. It's a common technique.

In any event I think Eddings did it on purpose and to good effect. I'm quite sure that if I ever got the chance to meet Garion I would feel I already knew him and would say "Hey Gar, how's it hangin?" Of course this would be before he became King Belgarion.

 

[Talysia]

Actually I remember reading Eddings say somewhere that the "Pol" in Polgara was the female equivalent of "Bel" for males. Not withstanding the fact that her sister was named Beldaran. However, we must remember that Polgara was a sorceress and Beldaran was a normal human. I believe therefore, that the "Bel" (meaning "beloved") meant she was the beloved of Belgarath and not Aldur. There were consistencies that flowed through the names of Belgarath's decendants most notably Daran and Geran. Both Geran and Garion are clearly derivative of "Garath" which was the old Wolf's name before he became the beloved of Aldur.

When I read the books, that's what I thought, too. Looking back at it, I'm finding little bits and pieces of information that I hadn't noticed before.

 

[YeOldeWolf]

When I read the books, that's what I thought, too. Looking back at it, I'm finding little bits and pieces of information that I hadn't noticed before.

I would love for you to elaborate, Talysia!