Dæmons vs. Human Soul

[orionsixwings]

In Philip Pullman's -- His Dark Materials Trilogy -- he introduced the concept of the Dæmon - something that I thought was a pet-like entity while I read the first book but then realized it wasn't for it in fact was the soul of the owner. This concept is really new to me -- although I personally do not believe in the existence of the "Soul" as a separate entity that inhabits the human body and leaves it after death to go elsewhere. So, you can imagine the effect of this whole new concept on my while I read.

Then there is the question of which is better to have: One that you can see, interact with, but risk losing (one seems to have problems hiding how they really feel if their souls are outside for everyone else to see), or one that you can't see though you know is inside you, and somehow affects the way you think and feel?

What would you choose?

 

[rune]

Id not really picked up on this when I read this trilogy. Id just thought of them as familiar's.

 

[orionsixwings]

FAMILIAR'S? You mean pets?

 

[HieroGlyph]

fa·mil·iar (fə-mĭl'yər)
--->An attendant spirit, often taking animal form.

Its in the dictionary.

A separate being, really.

As to your question... Its a good one. But as a rather old and stead human I would fear my dæmon would be like dragging around a burst balloon


If you looked at it in really poor light with a severe squint you might think it could have been a Unicorn!

 

[orionsixwings]

fa·mil·iar (fə-mĭl'yər)
--->An attendant spirit, often taking animal form.

Its in the dictionary.

A separate being, really.

As to your question... Its a good one. But as a rather old and stead human I would fear my dæmon would be like dragging around a burst balloon


If you looked at it in really poor light with a severe squint you might think it could have been a Unicorn!

Right. I actually thought it too at the start. So when I realized that Lyra and Pan were actually one --- but separate --- it thrilled me like crazy! I would choose to have a dæmon myself, it would be a Bengal Tiger.

 

[Amber]

We should probably start a thread on what we would like our daemons to look like. I'd go for something really fancy probably, then end up with half a dead rat on a stick


But I would like some sort of large cat- like Lord Asriels

 

[HieroGlyph]

... half a dead rat on a stick ...

LOL
You making this up!?!

 

[ras'matroi]

In some cases it depended on the circumstances what shape the daemon would take.
I remember servants only having dogs and the witches having large birds.
If I could choose I would like a wolf.
It would be the coolest if the daemon could continue to chang shape.

 

[orionsixwings]

Yeah, that would really be better than them retaining just one shape.

I love the idea of having daemon.

 

[Lacedaemonian]

I love the idea of having daemon.

I remember feeling really sad that I would never have a daemon. I would like to have a chipmonk as my daemon.

 

[osms123]

While i am a christain i like these books alot(I consider fantasy like this just a view to regard and cast away my faith being to strong to believe even though i enjoy the plot and the books) I have a hare named Nalina.

 

[Green Knight]

Oddly enough I've never seen what was anti-Christian about Pullman's trilogy (even though he says it himself!). What Pullman rails against is more about institutionalised, dogmatic religion/mindsets of any kind, that stifle the human spirit. Such things have little to do with the real tenets of faiths such as Christianity, Islam or whatever.

The values that Pullman teaches are more or less identical to the values supposedly most cherished by the major religions (even if they don't always stick by them). And at the end of the day it's how you behave, not what you believe ;-)

 

[Alia]

And at the end of the day it's how you behave, not what you believe ;-)

At the end of the day may the way you behave be a reflection of how you believe.

This is interesting that Pullman is anti-Christian, or is he merely anti religion? Believing moreso in Eastern philosphies?

 

[Tea is my copilot]

How about a penguin?
I prefer a soul, though.

 

[orionsixwings]

At the end of the day may the way you behave be a reflection of how you believe.

This is interesting that Pullman is anti-Christian, or is he merely anti religion? Believing moreso in Eastern philosphies?

I think he's an agnostic. Believes in the existence of a higher power but does not have any religious affiliations.

 

[Green Knight]

I think he's an agnostic. Believes in the existence of a higher power but does not have any religious affiliations.

I seem to recall reading that Pullman was more of the Richard Dawkins camp: an out-and-out atheist. But one shouldn't confuse that position with being amoral; his morality is just grounded in philosophical rather than spiritual terms.

I have respect for that. Atheism shows decisiveness; agnosticism smacks of hedging one's bets.

 

[shambalady]

everyone should read Bertrand Russel's "Why I'm Not A Christian"

it sounds a lot more aggressive towards religion than it actually is

 

[Crazihors]

what would happen if you had a split personality? As a n adult, a daemon has one shape, but if there was a split personality it would be a split in the soul, right, so maybe the daemon would have two forma and switch between them...

 

[BetaWolf]

My feeling is that this sort of thing historically came from a few places. Judaism had angels, who were sometimes sent to intervene in human affairs. But my lurking suspicion is that the idea of guardian angels really rose out of the Greek idea of the daemon and the Roman idea of the genius. Roman Christianity was syncretic, more than I think it gets credit for.

Families have some predispositions that might have to do with the genius's own traits. At least under the Republic, each family only had one genius, while it was more individual for the Greeks AFAIK. And so came about the idea of your own personal angel watching out for you.

 

[Stephen Palmer]

Philip Pullman is an atheist. His Dark Materials is imo anti-religion and specifically anti-Catholic. It was no surprise that the American film establishment acted against the film 'The Golden Compass' to make sure the second and third films weren't made.

Pullman is brilliant, I think - an exceptional writer and an activist for reason.

As for Dawkins - a brilliant writer, but, and it pains me to say this, he's become a caricature of himself and has recently done the atheist cause much harm. A shame.