Can't put it down on the Page

[phileas fogg]

I already have the plot for my novel I just can't put it down on the page. Any advice? The whole thing will be like Against the Day by Thomas Pynchon but with these plots

• underground rosicrucian rituals under Dublin in the late eighteenth century
• underground native american rituals of magic during the early American republic
• Lord Byron in Southern Europe
• a Muslim from Napoleonic North Africa in underground masonic rituals of Ordo Templi Orientis under Paris
• Fascist Rome

 

[Toby Frost]

This sounds ambitious. Have you written anything smaller, in length or scale? I say this because a lot of writing a book involves breaking down themes and the overall flow of it all into smaller chunks. Themes can often be developed by telling multiple stories that in some way echo one another. The obvious shape of a story with large underground elements would be some kind of thriller, with detective or mystery elements, perhaps involving conspiracies or the occult. I don't know Pynchon, and he sounds like the sort of "literary" author I'd usually avoid, but while "literary" fiction tends to go light on plot, some kind of narrative is required. Which I suppose is getting round to saying "What happens in this story? What's the main thrust of it?"

 

[phileas fogg]

This sounds ambitious. Have you written anything smaller, in length or scale? I say this because a lot of writing a book involves breaking down themes and the overall flow of it all into smaller chunks. Themes can often be developed by telling multiple stories that in some way echo one another. The obvious shape of a story with large underground elements would be some kind of thriller, with detective or mystery elements, perhaps involving conspiracies or the occult. I don't know Pynchon, and he sounds like the sort of "literary" author I'd usually avoid, but while "literary" fiction tends to go light on plot, some kind of narrative is required. Which I suppose is getting round to saying "What happens in this story? What's the main thrust of it?"

I think it'll be a criticism of the Fascism of Mussolini.

 

[Montero]

OK, but if you don't know anything about Mussolini's fascism and you pick the book up and read it, totally missing the allegory/subtext, what then would you see the book as?
You have a list of bullet points of settings and events but who are the people who you follow through their lives, and how come those lives get to tie together all those different geographic areas and different rites?
You are clearly into rites, so that is big in the book. You probably don't want to give away the overall plot of the book, but there has to be something that links through. So a researcher into rites popping up in every place? A spy seeing them?

 

[phileas fogg]

OK, but if you don't know anything about Mussolini's fascism and you pick the book up and read it, totally missing the allegory/subtext, what then would you see the book as?
You have a list of bullet points of settings and events but who are the people who you follow through their lives, and how come those lives get to tie together all those different geographic areas and different rites?
You are clearly into rites, so that is big in the book. You probably don't want to give away the overall plot of the book, but there has to be something that links through. So a researcher into rites popping up in every place? A spy seeing them?

I thought there may be one character at the end of each location who links to the next but I honestly never thought about it.

 

[-K2-]

I already have the plot for my novel I just can't put it down on the page. Any advice? The whole thing will be like Against the Day by Thomas Pynchon but with these plots.

• underground native american rituals of magic during the early American republic

Disregarding everything else, do you intend for their 'magic' to be fantstical or actual religious traditions, beliefs, and ceremonies? Beyond that, which nation/tribe of hundreds, or again a fictional group? Finally, do you mean historical or some fictional early American Republic?

If you mean for any one of those aspects to be historical, you've bitten off more than most historians would claim to have comprehensive answers to. Each on their own are vast subjects which do not stand alone yet are influenced by countless factors. I'm not trying to dissuade you, and I know nothing of your other story's aspects, yet regarding indigenous Americans (and early colonialists), you'll need to wade through volumes of incorrect speculation from over the centuries--much of it heavily embellished one way or the other.

Again, if historical, pick one Eastern Woodland Nation (tribe) which fought with or against the colonists, and then rely on their (that tribes) accounts if you can find them. To use American history texts, you'll find them portrayed as either 'noble savages or violent primitives,' neither of which is true. If a purely fictional/fantasy account, try to avoid any named people, their terms, and actual customs in that skirting fact and fiction will net a lot of uproar.

Good luck!

K2

 

[phileas fogg]

Disregarding everything else, do you intend for their 'magic' to be fantstical or actual religious traditions, beliefs, and ceremonies? Beyond that, which nation/tribe of hundreds, or again a fictional group? Finally, do you mean historical or some fictional early American Republic?

If you mean for any one of those aspects to be historical, you've bitten off more than most historians would claim to have comprehensive answers to. Each on their own are vast subjects which do not stand alone yet are influenced by countless factors. I'm not trying to dissuade you, and I know nothing of your other story's aspects, yet regarding indigenous Americans (and early colonialists), you'll need to wade through volumes of incorrect speculation from over the centuries--much of it heavily embellished one way or the other.

Again, if historical, pick one Eastern Woodland Nation (tribe) which fought with or against the colonists, and then rely on their (that tribes) accounts if you can find them. To use American history texts, you'll find them portrayed as either 'noble savages or violent primitives,' neither of which is true. If a purely fictional/fantasy account, try to avoid any named people, their terms, and actual customs in that skirting fact and fiction will net a lot of uproar.

Good luck!

K2

The magic will be an actual ceremony. The native americans will be fictional. The early American Republic also.

 

[-K2-]

The magic will be an actual ceremony. The native americans will be fictional. The early American Republic also.

OK, well, they didn't have any 'magic.' They did have well-developed religious, political, and societal ceremonies (by tribe), and their respect and understanding of the natural world was strong by standards few people comprehend today, and they had proven natural medicines and care, yet no magic (as I consider the word).

K2

 

[phileas fogg]

OK, well, they didn't have any 'magic.' They did have well-developed religious, political, and societal ceremonies (by tribe), and their respect and understanding of the natural world was strong by standards few people comprehend today, and they had proven natural medicines and care, yet no magic (as I consider the word).

K2

This isn't helping me learn how to put the novel on the page.

 

[-K2-]

This isn't helping me learn how to put the novel on the page.

Fair enough. The method that works for me is as follows.
* I have a general scene/world I want to see portrayed.
* I decide upon -a- protagonist and some of their important qualities.
* I come up with an ending--the point I want to make or punch-line if you will; IOW, why did the protagonist go through all these gyrations to get to that end.
* In the process I'll come up with various scenes, situations, and lines I want to happen, high points, usually. And make notes to remind me.
* The hard part is where to start. That first scene is difficult to decide upon, yet the first page, paragraph, sentence are respectively the hardest (so I expect they will change).
* I then just write that first scene--it might be poorly done or will totally change or be removed--yet I write it.
* From then on, every character the protagonist interacts with, every action, character thought, line, and scene follows a natural path. She walks out the door, locks it, goes down the steps to the end of the walk, and at the street must turn left or right (why would she choose one or the other?). She walks south to the corner store and what she buys and the shop-keep she interacts with influences her path once out of the store >>> to get her to the scene I want to portray next. Her natural responses and others actions influence her direction. Etc.
* I will need to occasionally nudge my character one way or the other, but I have them follow a natural path from scene to scene toward the goal.
* Once done, I go back and cut-cut-cut. And then I edit-edit-edit. And a few weeks, months, or years later (it more often seems), I'm finished. Then I re-read it, frown, and start re-writing it again.

Start with the ending. Where do you want it to end up. That's the easy part. The hard part is the first sentence.

K2

 

[phileas fogg]

Fair enough. The method that works for me is as follows.
* I have a general scene/world I want to see portrayed.
* I decide upon -a- protagonist and some of their important qualities.
* I come up with an ending--the point I want to make or punch-line if you will; IOW, why did the protagonist go through all these gyrations to get to that end.
* In the process I'll come up with various scenes, situations, and lines I want to happen, high points, usually. And make notes to remind me.
* The hard part is where to start. That first scene is difficult to decide upon, yet the first page, paragraph, sentence are respectively the hardest (so I expect they will change).
* I then just write that first scene--it might be poorly done or will totally change or be removed--yet I write it.
* From then on, every character the protagonist interacts with, every action, character thought, line, and scene follows a natural path. She walks out the door, locks it, goes down the steps to the end of the walk, and at the street must turn left or right (why would she choose one or the other?). She walks south to the corner store and what she buys and the shop-keep she interacts with influences her path once out of the store >>> to get her to the scene I want to portray next. Her natural responses and others actions influence her direction. Etc.
* I will need to occasionally nudge my character one way or the other, but I have them follow a natural path from scene to scene toward the goal.
* Once done, I go back and cut-cut-cut. And then I edit-edit-edit. And a few weeks, months, or years later (it more often seems), I'm finished. Then I re-read it, frown, and start re-writing it again.

Start with the ending. Where do you want it to end up. That's the easy part. The hard part is the first sentence.

K2

I want it to end with this sort of lumpenproletariat loser who plays guitar and is subjected to the corruption of Fascist Rome.

 

[-K2-]

I want it to end with this sort of lumpenproletariat loser who plays guitar and is subjected to the corruption of Fascist Rome.

OK, so...

Boxcaricus Willierarian sat outside the Colosseum, picking at his guitar--not his nose, which was acceptable citizen conduct. A Roman legionnaire paused, scowled, and kicked Boxcaricus off his chicken crate. "Stop that racket," barked the legionnaire. "Pick your nose like everyone else, or you're going to the salt mines."

There you go. Start there.

K2

 

[phileas fogg]

OK, so...

Boxcaricus Willierarian sat outside the Colosseum, picking at his guitar--not his nose, which was acceptable citizen conduct. A Roman legionnaire paused, scowled, and kicked Boxcaricus off his chicken crate. "Stop that racket," barked the legionnaire. "Pick your nose like everyone else, or you're going to the salt mines."

There you go. Start there.

K2

I thought it would start with a different character than the last one. Also I want every sentence to be my own.

 

[-K2-]

OK, so...

Inside the Colosseum, Bobcariat Dylanus shook his head. "We're done for now, Boxcaricus. These neo-fascist Romans--who have no respect for the capitalistic bourgeoisie or intelligentsia since their victory over the Seleucid Empire--and have silenced the proletariat with their cultural hegemony perpetuated by--"

The lion bit Bobcariat's head off and leveled its carnivorous gaze on Boxcaricus, salivating in anticipation of the hobo's demise. Boxcariucs ran about the arena's perimeter--clockwise, only bad Turks run counter-clockwise when imprisoned--and the lion gave chase. A figure appeared and floated in front of him, Tonka'longa'cha'me'taesa, also known as 'Kip' of the Pontacadillac Nation (since America had not been invented yet). "Use the native magic we taught you, Boxcaricus. The magic guitar," and Kip vanished.

The lion neared, gnashing his teeth with remnants of Bobcariat between them. Boxcaricus gripped his armpit hair and stretched it out. With the skill of a Pontacadillcan medicine master, he began to strum the ancient, native magic melody, and he vanished.

Boxcaricus Willierarian appeared outside the Colosseum, picking at his guitar--not his nose, which was acceptable citizen conduct. "Hmm, that was easy," said Boxcaricus. He stretched out his indigenous armpit hair guitar and began to play a tune he had long pondered. "I gots, the boxcar bluUUUes...."

A Roman legionnaire paused, scowled, and kicked Boxcaricus off his chicken crate. "Stop that racket," barked the legionnaire. "Pick your nose like everyone else, or you're going to the salt mines." And so it went in tyrannical Rome. The End.

Notice: I officially relenquish the copyrights to the preceeding sentences to you.

K2

 

[FibonacciEddie]

The 'method' I use is...

Come up with a general idea.
Come up with a few very rough main characters.
Try to write the whole story in 20 'key plot points'
Start day dreaming of how my characters would react in these high level
Continue day-dreaming
Continue day-dreaming
Continue day-dreaming
Continue day-dreaming
Write Chapter 1, fully aware that not more than 15% of the words will survive to the FINAL cut
Feel free to write the Chapter in very rough/quick style
Learn more about the characters as you push them through your original 20 'key plot points'
Accept and understand why they may not do the things that you want them to
Get to know your characters
Update the 20 'key plot points'
Write some more
Throw stuff away
Get to know your characters
Continue
Continue
Continue
Continue

not sure this helps

 

[tinkerdan]

If you really wish to get started then you have to establish narration.
Who is/are the narrator/s?
For me it works best for a character to be the narrator.
But there is the omniscient narrator.

Either way, the narration, the narrator, the how the story is told seems to work to create the interest(enthusiasm)for the reader.
This seems to also be the case for the author(at least as far as I am concerned).

Once I establish a narrator(a voice)that interests me the story begins to flow.

The voice of the the storyteller is a key to the success of the story and a great motivator toward getting it on the page.

 

[KeeleyA]

You might be overthinking it.

The way to put words on the page is...to put words on the page. It's play. It's fun. It's "what would happen if..."

Everyone has their own approach and you could learn all the different approaches, but none of them could be the right way *for you*. The only way to learn your personal way is to try it.

Try doing a full outline of the whole plot, then writing meticulously from that outline.
Try writing the first chapter first.
Try writing the last chapter first.
Try figuring out the turning point in the middle when the whole world flips around.
Try writing whatever scenes come to mind, out of order, with the intention of stitching them together in the end.
Try finding one character with a problem and writing the story from that point of view until disaster occurs and something else must happen.
Try writing into the dark.

My personal approach: I tell myself I have ten minutes to write. I sketch out a sparse map of the scene so I have an idea of what's happening. I get my laptop open or set up my phone. I set a timer. And I write the movie in my head.

I didn't start with this method. It took many tries with different methods for me to find out what works. And years from now, I may have a different method. But all these methods put words on the page and show your preferences to yourself.

If none of these work, I would examine two things: 1) Are you okay with your words being garbage initially, and 2) Do you feel overwhelmed by your project?

Solution to the first: Start doing Morning Pages or stream of consciousness practice pages.

Solution to the second: Choose one section, the one that most interests you, and focus only on writing that.

I hope this helps.

 

[Brian G Turner]

I already have the plot for my novel I just can't put it down on the page. Any advice? The whole thing will be like Against the Day by Thomas Pynchon but with these plots

• underground rosicrucian rituals under Dublin in the late eighteenth century
• underground native american rituals of magic during the early American republic
• Lord Byron in Southern Europe
• a Muslim from Napoleonic North Africa in underground masonic rituals of Ordo Templi Orientis under Paris
• Fascist Rome

I think it'll be a criticism of the Fascism of Mussolini.

I thought there may be one character at the end of each location who links to the next but I honestly never thought about it.

No offence, but you don't really have an idea for a novel here, but you might have the beginnings of an essay. However, if you simply want to write for yourself there's nothing stopping you from experimenting.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I already have the plot for my novel I just can't put it down on the page. Any advice? The whole thing will be like Against the Day by Thomas Pynchon but with these plots

• underground rosicrucian rituals under Dublin in the late eighteenth century
• underground native american rituals of magic during the early American republic
• Lord Byron in Southern Europe
• a Muslim from Napoleonic North Africa in underground masonic rituals of Ordo Templi Orientis under Paris
• Fascist Rome

But none of those are actually plots. I am not sure they are even scenes--at least not the way you describe them. They are things a writer might incorporate into a story, they even sound like they could be intriguing, but none of that adds up to a plot.

 

[phileas fogg]

No offence, but you don't really have an idea for a novel here, but you might have the beginnings of an essay. However, if you simply want to write for yourself there's nothing stopping you from experimenting.

I want to publish the novel.