Did the Ring of Power have Agenda of Own Separate from Sauron?

[BAYLOR]

And could it be that even Sauron was not really the Lord of the Ring but mere another servant the Ring ? Which do you think was really master , the Sauron or the Ring?

 

[P.K.Acredon]

Maybe the master used to be Sauron but then it turned into the ring. As is told in Lord of the rings, if anyone with a ton of power like Gandalf or Galadriel or The Eagles would have taken the ring, they would be corrupted by it no prob. If Denathor got the ring, he may have had a chance of destroying Sauron, but the ring would have lived on and a new dark lord would be formed.
So yeah, its pretty likely the ring had its own agenda.

 

[Timebender]

And could it be that even Sauron was not really the Lord of the Ring but mere another servant the Ring ? Which do you think was really master , the Sauron or the Ring?

Interesting thought. I would think that Sauron was the master given that he was the creator and put his own power into the ring. But who knows what the ring might have developed into over time?

 

[paranoid marvin]

The Ring was Sauron. Which is why until it was destroyed he never could be. Certainly whilst alive he had total control, but when his body was killed, the only physical part that remained was the ring. With no physical form he was utterly dependant on the Ring to cling on to some form of existence.

In a way he became a slave to it, because he was ever watching out for it, and if he had concentrated on conquering Middle-earth with his forces rather than worrying where the Ring was or who might use it, he may have won.

 

[BAYLOR]

The Ring was Sauron. Which is why until it was destroyed he never could be. Certainly whilst alive he had total control, but when his body was killed, the only physical part that remained was the ring. With no physical form he was utterly dependant on the Ring to cling on to some form of existence.

In a way he became a slave to it, because he was ever watching out for it, and if he had concentrated on conquering Middle-earth with his forces rather than worrying where the Ring was or who might use it, he may have won.

Sauron's biggest error was making that ring in first place.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Sauron's biggest error was making that ring in first place.

Sauron's greatest fear was that the other races of Middle-earth would join forces to defeat him. So by the gifting of the rings he ensured that he would control his most powerful potential adversaries and also be able to undo anything they wrought. And it worked beautifully for him; even if he was defeated, he would always be able to return as long as the One Ring wasn't destroyed, something that he simply couldn't envisage happening.

I think that if he hadn't created the Ring he would eventually have been overwhelmed by his enemies. I think his biggest error was not guarding the one thing that could defeat him; the Cracks of Doom.

 

[BAYLOR]

Sauron's greatest fear was that the other races of Middle-earth would join forces to defeat him. So by the gifting of the rings he ensured that he would control his most powerful potential adversaries and also be able to undo anything they wrought. And it worked beautifully for him; even if he was defeated, he would always be able to return as long as the One Ring wasn't destroyed, something that he simply couldn't envisage happening.

I think that if he hadn't created the Ring he would eventually have been overwhelmed by his enemies. I think his biggest error was not guarding the one thing that could defeat him; the Cracks of Doom.

Stationing a large orc army near Cracks might have done the trick .

 

[.matthew.]

Stationing a large orc army near Cracks might have done the trick .

Or even sealing off the entrances

 

[BAYLOR]

Or even sealing off the entrances

In his evil schemes, Sauron wasn't always practical.

 

[paranoid marvin]

To be fair, to actually get to them you had to breach substantial defences already in place. And if it hadn't been for Aragorn at the gates and the orcs of Cirith Ungol killing themselves over Frodo's mithrail shirt, the hobbits would never have got anywhere near Mount Doom. Even so, you still make absolutely sure by (as Baylor says) stationing an army of orcs there (or maybe a Nazgul) or building a fortress over them.

But it seems that Sauron and his forces weren't much in the way of builders of citadels or fortresses, as most (all?) of those they occupied were built by men or elves in ages past.

 

[The Big Peat]

To be fair, to actually get to them you had to breach substantial defences already in place. And if it hadn't been for Aragorn at the gates and the orcs of Cirith Ungol killing themselves over Frodo's mithrail shirt, the hobbits would never have got anywhere near Mount Doom. Even so, you still make absolutely sure by (as Baylor says) stationing an army of orcs there (or maybe a Nazgul) or building a fortress over them.

But it seems that Sauron and his forces weren't much in the way of builders of citadels or fortresses, as most (all?) of those they occupied were built by men or elves in ages past.

Sauron (and Morgoth before him) were rarely creators, but corruptors of what had been created.

I also think that at some point on dark lord defence, you've got to say "good enough" and "I don't have enough resources for more".

 

[paranoid marvin]

Sauron (and Morgoth before him) were rarely creators, but corruptors of what had been created.

I also think that at some point on dark lord defence, you've got to say "good enough" and "I don't have enough resources for more".

Plus he saw no reason why Mount Doom would need to be defended anyway.

 

[BAYLOR]

Plus he saw no reason why Mount Doom would need to be defended anyway.

He probably didn't think anyone in their right mind would try to get into place like Mount Doom.

 

[BAYLOR]

Interesting thought. I would think that Sauron was the master given that he was the creator and put his own power into the ring. But who knows what the ring might have developed into over time?

I was think in time The Ring would become something the Ring that Kane found in the novel Bloodstone.

 

[Pyan]

But it seems that Sauron and his forces weren't much in the way of builders of citadels or fortresses, as most (all?) of those they occupied were built by men or elves in ages past.

Yes, Minas Morgul, Cirith Ungol and the Towers of the Teeth, Carchost and Narchost, were built by the rulers of Gondor, to keep an eye on Mordor. But Barad-dûr itself was built by Sauron himself, using the power of the Ring.

 

[paranoid marvin]

It seems odd to think that the elves - knowing that (almost) everything they had built was held ransom by the One Ring - didn't abandon this and rebuild without the influence of their rings to do so. They surely knew that they were on borrowed time, and being almost immortal , they would likely still be around when the Ring was eventually discovered and either returned to Sauron or destroyed. Men and dwarves , having lost their rings much earlier, probably benefitted in that most of what they built was without the power of the rings, and so were protected in the long term.

 

[BAYLOR]

It seems odd to think that the elves - knowing that (almost) everything they had built was held ransom by the One Ring - didn't abandon this and rebuild without the influence of their rings to do so. They surely knew that they were on borrowed time, and being almost immortal , they would likely still be around when the Ring was eventually discovered and either returned to Sauron or destroyed. Men and dwarves , having lost their rings much earlier, probably benefitted in that most of what they built was without the power of the rings, and so were protected in the long term.

Galadriel told Frodo that with the Ring of power gone from the world, the Elves would diminish and become merely a rustic folk and the implication was they they die out if that were to happen. Their only real chance for survival was to got to the Grey Havens.

I seem to recall that the none kins who got their rings became the Nazgul servants of Sauron as for Dwarf lords and their rings. Unknown.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Gandalf tells Frodo in 'The Shadow of the Past' that 3 of the dwarf rings were recovered and 4 consumed by dragons. (I always liked to think that Smaug consumed one, which was reason for his great longevity, power and intelligence). The 7 given to men turned their owners into wraiths and servants of Sauron, but the 3 given to elves were not recovered, but that 'all that has been wrought with them will be laid bare'. Galadriel tells Frodo that 'Lothlorien will fade' if the One Ring is destroyed, and I would assume could probably be said of Rivendell.

It just surprises me somewhat that knowing the evil influence of the One Ring (and to a lesser extent the 3 elven rings), that the elves would have still used - and indeed continued to use - them. They should have attempted to destroy them, or at least stop using them. Presumably previous to Sauron gifting the rings, the elves had been powerful, influential people. Why could they not just go back to the way they had been before they had been given the 3?

Men and dwarves were lucky in that the temptation had been forcibly taken away from them. They had had no choice but to get on with life without the use of powerful magical rings, so all that they built was not dependant on the recovery or destruction of the One Ring.

 

[BAYLOR]

Gandalf tells Frodo in 'The Shadow of the Past' that 3 of the dwarf rings were recovered and 4 consumed by dragons. (I always liked to think that Smaug consumed one, which was reason for his great longevity, power and intelligence). The 7 given to men turned their owners into wraiths and servants of Sauron, but the 3 given to elves were not recovered, but that 'all that has been wrought with them will be laid bare'. Galadriel tells Frodo that 'Lothlorien will fade' if the One Ring is destroyed, and I would assume could probably be said of Rivendell.

It just surprises me somewhat that knowing the evil influence of the One Ring (and to a lesser extent the 3 elven rings), that the elves would have still used - and indeed continued to use - them. They should have attempted to destroy them, or at least stop using them. Presumably previous to Sauron gifting the rings, the elves had been powerful, influential people. Why could they not just go back to the way they had been before they had been given the 3?

Men and dwarves were lucky in that the temptation had been forcibly taken away from them. They had had no choice but to get on with life without the use of powerful magical rings, so all that they built was not dependant on the recovery or destruction of the One Ring.

The elves at this stage can't help themselves, they have to keep the rings or they become powerless . If they had power of their own before they got theses Rings , they lost after accepting them. I think one of the reasons they have go west is for their survival. In the realm of the Grey Havens , they will regain what they might have lost . I wonder far into the Fourth Age the Elves survived ?