A question about small town America

[David Evil Overlord]

Okay, as my WIP progresses there are a couple of plot threads for a supporting character.

One plot thread is that she's an American, now living in Australia.

The second thread is that the MC has just discovered that this character (her friend) is gay.

The gay character has been very reluctant to reveal this side of herself, because the reason she left America was the extremely negative reaction of those who lived in her small town. This is partly based upon a friend of mine, who was scared to reveal she was gay when she moved from the Australian state of Tasmania to my state of Victoria. That was because Tasmania had tried to turn back the clock and make homosexuality illegal.

Now you have all the background, here comes the question...is it believable? That some small towns in America contain such small minds that she runs and doesn't feel she can stop running until she's halfway around the world?

(Apologies to my American friends. I'm not trying to insult your country.)

 

[The Judge]

I'm not American, but I'd certainly believe that in a small town in the Bible Belt where homosexuality is all but equivalent to bestiality there would be a real price to pay for being outed. Fag-bashing might be directed more at male homosexuals, but I'm willing to bet that women have an equal problem with good ol' boys deciding that they can help a lesbian become straight by the good ol' fashioned process of raping her.

And it's not just the Bible Belt, either, of course. If she's from a Moslem background, she's going to find exactly the same prejudices -- in some areas of London now thugs are publically hounding gays off the street on the basis it's a Moslem neighbourhood. So a woman growing up in that environment is going to be scarred and scared. (Quite how likely a Moslem enclave is in small town America I have no idea, though.)

As for whether she needs to escape to the other side of the world, that would depend on her character and what she has witnessed. If she'd seen a lover tortured to death, she's going to be more frightened of coming out than someone who has only witnessed the odd bit of vile graffiti.

 

[Jake Reynolds]

Judge is spot on, as usual. People who grow up in an environment of fear develop instinctive defence mechanisms that can lead to extreme shyness, zero confidence, depression and in some cases, tragically, suicide. The desire to express who we really are is a base human need that drives us all. If someone is in an environment where he or she cannot do that, then he or she would attempt to escape, in one way or another. A huge issue is education, whether the person feels in some way 'evil', or feels as if they must atone for what they are. It depend on your character's situation.

Incidentally, I'm from Tasmania, and while it is true that it was the last state of Australia to change the laws, many of my fellow Tasmanians were 100% behind it. I remember the huge protests and civic duty everyone felt at the time. Definitely a case of government not representing the people (though I will admit that, like rats, there are bigots everywhere).

"The achievement of gay law reform in Tasmania finally erased criminal sanctions against homosexuality from all Australian statutes, but as well as bringing one era to an end it ushered another in. The Tasmanian gay law reform debate saw the application of new Green protest methods and ideas to the gay rights movement, the importation of far right cultural politics into Australian political debate, and the location of gay rights firmly within the international human rights agenda, all for the first time."

From http://www.utas.edu.au

 

[TheTomG]

Westboro Baptist Church.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...20a6ba0-488e-11e2-b6f0-e851e741d196_blog.html

Need I say more?

Well, even if I don't need to, I will!

So yes, there certainly is enough small mindedness out there. Now that isn't escalating to violence as such, and I would say cities are more likely to display violence toward a group they don't like than a small town - with the small town, it's more likely to be whispers behind your back, the feeling of being judged, being shunned, and so forth.

Here's a realistic example of the mindset - one day my son came back from the activities group at a nearby church in the lead up to the election that voted in Obama for the first time, and asked why Obama kills babies. On inquiring just what on earth he was talking about, he had been told that Democrats support abortion, which is killing babies.

Now, all questions on what you think of abortion aside, this was totally wrong - first it made a link between a political party and a moral standpoint that just isn't correct, in order to further the aims of promoting how you have to be Republican to be a true Christian. Second, it talked about abortion without actually explaining what it was. Third, it was to children who were too young to understand abortion anyway even if you did explain it. Fourth, it was mixing religion and politics. Fifth, it was exploiting a priveleged position to deliver a particular political message.

So there's an example of what sort of thing might exist. How hard someone might find it to deal with inside such a community would depend on their personality. And of course nothing is ever black-and-white - no community is entirely of one mind, and remains a mix of people of varying viewpoints that go to polar opposites, so not everyone will think and act the same way.

I am pretty sure some folks would dislike being in that kind of environment quite intensely though. I disliked my small town Scotland upbringing - I had long hair, in a small town where "everyone" was a trendy, so came in for much in the way of hurled insults at school. But that was it, just insults. How unpleasant you find it is dependent on who you are, and I'd say it could well be enough to make people run away from that sort of mentality in search of some place more open-minded.

 

[allmywires]

Totally believable. How many gay characters in TV/film are people who long to leave their little Podunk and make it in the big city, where they're free to be themselves? I did once write about about one such small town in North Dakota (despite never having been there...somewhat problematic) and from all the research I did then I think it's sadly more true than we often realise how tough minorities have it.

I'm not savaging America, I think it can be a wonderful country in places. Also if I'm too mean they might not let me in when I come in the summer.

 

[monsterchic]

Definitely believable. In my town of 600, and the surrounding towns, homosexuals are looked at as dirty, gross...I am one of the few who will accept them for what they are. Even in northern WI, church plays a large part in what people believe. We're taught that the chruch is absolutely right and that, again, gays are perversions of nature. I could see someone moving halfway across the world because of small town predjudices, definitely.

If you have any more questions about small town America, don't hesitate to message me or something

 

[Nerds_feather]

Okay, as my WIP progresses there are a couple of plot threads for a supporting character.

One plot thread is that she's an American, now living in Australia.

The second thread is that the MC has just discovered that this character (her friend) is gay.

The gay character has been very reluctant to reveal this side of herself, because the reason she left America was the extremely negative reaction of those who lived in her small town. This is partly based upon a friend of mine, who was scared to reveal she was gay when she moved from the Australian state of Tasmania to my state of Victoria. That was because Tasmania had tried to turn back the clock and make homosexuality illegal.

Now you have all the background, here comes the question...is it believable? That some small towns in America contain such small minds that she runs and doesn't feel she can stop running until she's halfway around the world?

(Apologies to my American friends. I'm not trying to insult your country.)

I have a friend who is from a small town in Idaho and is gay. When he came out, in high school, he decided to leave the town. This part is potentially believable.

Here's the problem, though: my friend moved to Boise, which despite being the capital of a very conservative and very religious state, was a fairly tolerant place with a decent sized and open gay community.

He had to move, but he didn't have to move far. Not even to San Francisco or New York, let alone Australia.

So if you want to put this character in Australia, you'll need a more specific reason for the character to move there.

 

[MstrTal]

Having lived in a few small towns, one that had a year round population of 176, up and down the eastern seaboard I can find it believable. The catch to this is that while it can be seen as prevalent it can really depend on the town.

Two extreme examples: One small town I lived in the only church was a Non-Denominational Universalist and the Pastor was very open minded. He would even preside over "Love Unions" between gay Couples. So why there were undoubtably a few close minded bigots the bulk of the town was pretty easy going and accepting.

The other was in a Dry County and the only two churches where a Southern Baptist and Methodist Church. The two did not see eye to eye. A bit larger than the 1st town but geographically and temperamentally worlds apart. In this second town the Klan was still very much active and being Gay was sure to get you harrassed if not lynched.

Now ironically enough and somewhat cliche to my way of thinking the 1st town was in Maine and the 2nd in South Carolina.

So it is believable, sad and a bit cliched which is the reality of the matter, but believable.

 

[EricWard]

Eh, I have to state for the record that the Westboro Baptist church is by no means representative of the US. Heck, the damn KKK has said "those guys are too extreme."

But I digress. I grew up in a very small town in Pennsylvania. My graduating class was something like 115, with barely over 350 kids in the entire school, between three grades (and that's from four or so towns). There's definitely a close-mindedness that's only amplified by small-town gossip. Also didn't help that a lot of people identified themselves as rednecks and rebels (why would you fly the confederate flag when you and your whole family is from the north?!).

I don't recall it ever escalating to violence or anything, but there was a definite sense of anyone who was different being looked at with suspicion and probably at risk of being verbally harassed in one of the more blue-collar bars. But it was more "you don't belong here" instead of "we will hunt you down."

 

[Jack Parker]

I'm from America, and I can for sure tell you that people would think that way here. Especially in small towns. Especially in small towns in remote places, like the middle of farm country in somewhere like Iowa or Alabama.

While Westboro is certainly a distinct outlier and not indicative of what it is really like, they are sort of just a super extreme version of what many people think, sadly.

I should edit this and say "some" people, rather than "many." I'd like to think it's getting better. But you can find pockets of this sort of discriminating outlook with ease if you want to find them.

 

[Montero]

Just regarding remoter rural areas - someone I used to know, who had worked and travelled in the US a lot - said that in some basically red-neck places, the local lads would sometimes use their cars/truck to force a strange vehicle off the road. It happened to him a few times when he was passing through on business. He wasn't sure if it was entertainment, or them wanting the stranger to leave their territory. Either way it was scary.

 

[Jack Parker]

Whoa, that's crazy. I've never had anything like that happen, but I wouldn't doubt it. Some parts of this country - which, I should say, I really do love - are nuts.

 

[Parson]

Do I dare admit I'm from a small town in Iowa, and in the hinterlands at that?

To answer the question. Yes, its believable. Go ahead and write it that way.

Now, as all of us should know stereotypes do not include everyone, and in this case they do not include the majority. The real truth is that people are people. You will find the bigot, the racist, the criminal, et. al. in every location. It is my belief that you will find what you look for. If you look for the kind and generous people you will find them in New York, London, Tokyo, and every other metropolotan area you care to name. You will also find them in the smallest little bergs that are scarcely known. You will also find all of what is worst in both places. I've lived in Detroit MI and in a place with under 100 residents, and found all kinds in both places. My experience, and my common sense tells me that this is true.

Part of me is very frustrated when people paint a whole region or people group with one brush. In my circle of evangelical Christians and Country Music fans, I hear statements like "send me to hell or New York City, it's all the same to me." Here I often hear the Bible Belt used like its a kind of expletive. In both cases there is notable blindness involved.

(End of Sermon -- Sorry)

 

[Esfires]

I live in a small town in Indiana, and I'd say the perception of this sort off thing is far far worse than the reality. Most people who "run" from prejudice are seeing prejudice where there isn't any or are seeing more prejudice than is really there. You'll find that most reports of intolerance in what we call "middle America" comes from people who don't actually live there. We tend to be a very self-hating nation, especially those parts of our "self" that don't agree politically with the rest. On the whole, it's the more urban places in America that tend to be ruder and more generally intolerant (And I've lived in both places). That's not to say that there aren't exceptions to all of this, but if you're looking for generalities your story would be painfully contrived and a little insulting to most people who actually live in those areas.

That being said, how many people who live in small town America are actually going to buy your book anyway? You have to write to your market and, if your market holds certain stereotypes, you're perfectly safe writing to those stereotypes as long as it doesn't bother you ethically.

 

[Jack Parker]

I apologize if I came off to harshly on small towns in middle America. I didn't mean to offend or stereotype anyone.

Myself, I'm from a small town in Michigan, and I know there is discrimination there. It's not all over the place, but it's there. Racism as well. I used to work in a grocery store type place where this old guy would come in every morning and buy coffee. And then one time he said to me: "You know why I moved here? There's no black people. And that's how it should be."

And I was stunned. No idea what to say to that.

So while I'm not trying to come down on anyone, I've seen some of this firsthand, so it's out there. Parson and Esfires are completely right, though, that those people are everywhere and that the majority of the people you meet won't feel that way.

Again, all apologies if I offended anyone. Not my intent at all.

 

[Nerds_feather]

I apologize if I came off to harshly on small towns in middle America. I didn't mean to offend or stereotype anyone.

Myself, I'm from a small town in Michigan, and I know there is discrimination there. It's not all over the place, but it's there. Racism as well. I used to work in a grocery store type place where this old guy would come in every morning and buy coffee. And then one time he said to me: "You know why I moved here? There's no black people. And that's how it should be."

And I was stunned. No idea what to say to that.

So while I'm not trying to come down on anyone, I've seen some of this firsthand, so it's out there. Parson and Esfires are completely right, though, that those people are everywhere and that the majority of the people you meet won't feel that way.

Again, all apologies if I offended anyone. Not my intent at all.

Be that as it may, if you were gay and wanted to leave your town, you could go to Ann Arbor, Royal Oak, East Lansing, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, Chicago, etc. All of these are places were you would find a sizable gay community and high levels of tolerance/protection. You would not need to go to Australia just for that.

This was my point: if the character goes to Australia, it has to be for a more specific reason than just "to escape the homophobia of my small town in the USA." It could be that and something else, but there has to be a something else.

 

[Jack Parker]

Be that as it may, if you were gay and wanted to leave your town, you could go to Ann Arbor, Royal Oak, East Lansing, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, Chicago, etc. All of these are places were you would find a sizable gay community and high levels of tolerance/protection. You would not need to go to Australia just for that.

This was my point: if the character goes to Australia, it has to be for a more specific reason than just "to escape the homophobia of my small town in the USA." It could be that and something else, but there has to be a something else.

Yeah, that's absolutely true. And that's just naming places within (or close to) the state. Plenty of other places within the country as well.

 

[Parson]

Jack, apology accepted and appreciated. Thanks for stepping up. Often when we state our case we draw the picture less than fully nuanced and I understand that. I wasn't fishing for someone to back down. I got a bit carried away myself.

One of the things I love about this place is that we have such diverse opinions and yet this is one of the most civil places I know of on the web. I think you fit right in.

 

[Jack Parker]

Jack, apology accepted and appreciated. Thanks for stepping up. Often when we state our case we draw the picture less than fully nuanced and I understand that. I wasn't fishing for someone to back down. I got a bit carried away myself.

One of the things I love about this place is that we have such diverse opinions and yet this is one of the most civil places I know of on the web. I think you fit right in.

Thanks, Parson. I hope I do. I think you were spot on, though. I was trying to make a point without thinking of how it came across, which is always dangerous, and I shouldn't have done it that way. Or I should have at least started with examples I've seen in my own state, rather than randomly picking yours.

 

[ratsy]

I fully agree that you can find all types in both cities and small towns. I grew up in a small Canadian town and now live in Edmonton, Capital of Alberta. People are people, but one thing I will say is that when you live in a small town, your business is not your own. Everyone is under a microscope and since there seems to be less to do , people tend to feed on gossip.

So I think that if there is someone "different" than the others in a small town that they will feel the judgement much stronger. It is much easier to be a nameless faceless city dweller than being in a town where everyone knows who you are. My opinion anyways.