Hi Ive just brough the first book in this series and am going to start reading it soon. However I have read in many different reviewsthat from book 5 onwards the story seems to dip quite a bit and drags on. Anyway I was just wondering a few things. Firstly I would not mind the story not progressing much as long as its still fun to read and that the characters are fun to read about even if entire chapters are just about them travelling from point A to B or sitting round a fire or whatever. So ARE these things fun to read about, or is it just a case of the author trying to get in as many words as possible? Sorry if theres a similar thread like this but I dont really want to risk seeing any spoilers.
Later on in the series
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Green
Sick and Tired
I'm afraid the camp is divided on this one. Personally, I think it is still enjoyable to read. It's more bearable when the next book is already out on the shelves though, I have to admit.
Old Nick
Active Member
I tend to say that "I understand the people who make this critisism, but I don't agree with them".
Shoegaze99
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I agree, if the characters are interesting enough, you can read about them just sitting around and interacting.toffee2 said:
I would make the argument that Jordan gets into a rut with the characters, a rut in which he describes them the same way again and again, and they interact the same way again and again, making the later slowing of the plot even worse than it needs to be.
However, as you can see, many fans remain, well, fans. My suggestion? Read until you get bored, and when you get bored, stop. Don't keep going out of obligation.
Brys
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I'd say it's just a case of Jordan trying to get as many words in as possible. I haven't read book 11, Knife of Dreams, but for books 7 - 10 there's not a lot of plot for 3000 pages. Particularly, Crossroads of Twilight was a completely unnecessary novel. I've seen it said elsewhere that to know what happens in CoT - read the title, read the blurb, read the epilogue. Because it covers only a few days of the story.
Are they fun to read? For me, certainly not. The characters become more cliched as the series progresses, and sometimes it's very repetitive. Read book 1 - if you like the characters/plot/writing style, continue to book 3. If you still like it, continue to book 5/6. Then decide whether you think it's good enough to have some very similar books but with a much slower pace. Alternatively, wait until the last book is published and skip all of books 7 - 10 and read a synopsis of them.
***Spoiler ***
eg one plotline is about Faile being captured and Perrin trying to rescue her. He tries to do that for 3 books, and even at the end of CoT he hasn't yet done it. Hundreds of pages are spent on this plotline, but it's simple repetition of what happened before - Perrin agonises over Faile being captured, decides to organise a rescue mission, 100 pages later he's still chasing her captors and hasn't really tried to rescue her. Repeat indefinitely. Or in the case of CoT - look at that massive use of the one power. Repeat for 800 pages.
Are they fun to read? For me, certainly not. The characters become more cliched as the series progresses, and sometimes it's very repetitive. Read book 1 - if you like the characters/plot/writing style, continue to book 3. If you still like it, continue to book 5/6. Then decide whether you think it's good enough to have some very similar books but with a much slower pace. Alternatively, wait until the last book is published and skip all of books 7 - 10 and read a synopsis of them.
***Spoiler ***
eg one plotline is about Faile being captured and Perrin trying to rescue her. He tries to do that for 3 books, and even at the end of CoT he hasn't yet done it. Hundreds of pages are spent on this plotline, but it's simple repetition of what happened before - Perrin agonises over Faile being captured, decides to organise a rescue mission, 100 pages later he's still chasing her captors and hasn't really tried to rescue her. Repeat indefinitely. Or in the case of CoT - look at that massive use of the one power. Repeat for 800 pages.
Have to agree with Brys, characters have become very repetitive and the plot line is almost glacial in nature with an extraordinary amount of padding in the later books.
Still it's an EPIC series and started off quite well, so I'm certainly going to complete the current series but probably not continue with Jordn's next project.
Still it's an EPIC series and started off quite well, so I'm certainly going to complete the current series but probably not continue with Jordn's next project.
Green
Sick and Tired
I do enjoy WoT.. but his pitch for the new series (Generic Fantasy Title) is less than awe-inspiring. Kung-Fu, anyone?
Brys
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I have some sort of peverse respect for Robert Jordan - I know I'd be completely unable to write 800 pages without a plot or any literary devices or proper description in. It's impressive from a technical view - he manages to do absolutely nothing of worth in 800 pages, and that takes a type of stamina of its own.
Green
Sick and Tired
Admit it! You go to bed in a Jordan Beard and dream of Perrin! 
It's ok, I do too...
It's ok, I do too...
Winters_Sorrow
Well-Known Member
Foxtale said:
Yup, I agree with this.
I also agree with the Faile/Perrin stuff above.
If he was going to focus on a secondary character for the best part of a book, at least focus on Matrim Cauthon - he's fun!
Brys
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Foxtale said:
If you have cash to burn, go and spend it on a decent author - like Graham Joyce - and help to bring them out of obscurity. Don't make the mistake lots of us have made and let Jordan get away with terrible writing by buying his sub-par books. If his sales suddenly dropped, he'd be forced to start writing better. Or at least that's the theory (because we know that many readers don't like leaving a series unfinished - and Jordan's sales are unlikely to drop hugely, he's got a large, loyal fanbase).
TomServo
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I think hes just drawing it out to thirteen books to fit his little scheme. Thirteen of this, thirteen of that, why not thirteen books. The problem is that he doesnt have enough actual plot for thirteen books. If you are looking to devote time into reading a long series i would HIGHLY recommend George R. R. Martin's series, A Song of Ice and Fire. It blows Jordan out of the water. With Jordan I find myself completely indifferent to the characters, meaning I have no particular attachment to the protagonists and I don't really love to hate the antagonists. Also, in Jordan's work it seems that the characters are invincible, sure they get hurt but soon enough they are back on their feet, this takes away any suspense. Martin on the other hand is not afraid to off a main, and likeable, character. In fact there was a point in a book, i wont spoil anything, where i threw down the book in anger. I was pissed but the thing with Martin is that he makes you have such strong feelings about his characters. This is never true with Jordan, Rand, Mat and Perrin could all die doing some noble act and i really wouldnt feel anything for them.
Werthead
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I think Knife of Dreams does repair a lot of the damage wrought in Books 8-10. It's not a return to the form of the earlier books in the series, but KoD does address a lot of the points raised by the readers and answers them. And
SPOILER
That storyline is finally resolved, Brys. I nearly fell out of my chair in shock that an utterly bland B-storyline that Jordan threw out there in 1998 was finally resolved in 2005.
I have a certain hope that Book 12 will be a good book. Jordan's recent brush with death may have suddenly focused him on what he needs to do (finish the damn thing) and drive all the secondary things that may have been distracting him to one side. However, even if it is the best book in the series, it still won't repair the damage done by Books 8-10.
SPOILER
That storyline is finally resolved, Brys. I nearly fell out of my chair in shock that an utterly bland B-storyline that Jordan threw out there in 1998 was finally resolved in 2005.
I have a certain hope that Book 12 will be a good book. Jordan's recent brush with death may have suddenly focused him on what he needs to do (finish the damn thing) and drive all the secondary things that may have been distracting him to one side. However, even if it is the best book in the series, it still won't repair the damage done by Books 8-10.
Elyas MACHERA
Active Member
As I've posted elsewhere: (I seem to be disagreeing with a large number of people).
Isn't it wonderful that we can all have such differing opinions on the same subject matter.
Personally I have loved just about everything about the WoT series. I didn't mind the 'slow down' too much in the mid books although I am not the greatest fan of political intrigue. To me a lot of the series is like a vast game of chess, the opening moves are quite exciting as they set theshape of the contest to come. The middle game is all about manouevering your pieces into the best position to gain the slightest of advantages for the coming end game whilst trying to deceive your opponent as to your true intentions. This slow movement prepares everything for the ending where you hope for a spectacular and 'bloody' (metaphorically) ending. I never at any stage put down any of the books in this series thinking "I don't want to continue" and I have now reread the series numerous times.
I can't say the same for aSoIaF. Halfway through the second book, I put it down for three months. I've now read a further couple of chapters but find this series much more of a struggle than any of the WoT books.
I've decided to read the "Malazan Book of the Fallen" series as this has been recommended elsewhere on this site.
I am determined to revisit aSoIaF when the series is concluded but apart from some individual stand out moments I find there is little of a story thread to this series. It is mainly one army marching on another, fighting a battle, one or more major / minor characters die. Repeat.
I find it extremely difficult to care about any of the characters and I never had that dificulty with WoT.
It can't just be that WoT was the first SF series I read. (I'm not counting the Narnia series which I truly do still love and reread if I only have a spare couple of days)! I'm sure you retain extra love for your first but that can't surely explain why my feelings for WoT appear to be much stronger than most people posting on this site?
Isn't it wonderful that we can all have such differing opinions on the same subject matter.
Personally I have loved just about everything about the WoT series. I didn't mind the 'slow down' too much in the mid books although I am not the greatest fan of political intrigue. To me a lot of the series is like a vast game of chess, the opening moves are quite exciting as they set theshape of the contest to come. The middle game is all about manouevering your pieces into the best position to gain the slightest of advantages for the coming end game whilst trying to deceive your opponent as to your true intentions. This slow movement prepares everything for the ending where you hope for a spectacular and 'bloody' (metaphorically) ending. I never at any stage put down any of the books in this series thinking "I don't want to continue" and I have now reread the series numerous times.
I can't say the same for aSoIaF. Halfway through the second book, I put it down for three months. I've now read a further couple of chapters but find this series much more of a struggle than any of the WoT books.
I've decided to read the "Malazan Book of the Fallen" series as this has been recommended elsewhere on this site.
I am determined to revisit aSoIaF when the series is concluded but apart from some individual stand out moments I find there is little of a story thread to this series. It is mainly one army marching on another, fighting a battle, one or more major / minor characters die. Repeat.
I find it extremely difficult to care about any of the characters and I never had that dificulty with WoT.
It can't just be that WoT was the first SF series I read. (I'm not counting the Narnia series which I truly do still love and reread if I only have a spare couple of days)! I'm sure you retain extra love for your first but that can't surely explain why my feelings for WoT appear to be much stronger than most people posting on this site?
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