Matrix Reloaded (2003)

azgaflamazuk

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This is off of the topics of the last several posts but, I think that in the end of Reloaded when Neo and Bane are in comas they are in the real real world. I think that there are three matrixes. Everything in the movies thus far has been based around three. The whole holy trinity thing, everything. Anywho, if you've seen the Animatrix then you've seen the short in which the black guy pushes himself so hard he wakes up from the Matrix. Now, many people believe that humans contain PK energy. What Neo, and Bane for that matter could be doing is using their PK energy to stop the sentinels and trigger the EMP respectively, so much that they wake up from what they believe to be the "real world". That "real world" is possibly another matrix and the world they awake to is where we see them battling in the trailer for Revolutions. Having their bodies remain in comas is plausible as people transcend the levels between the Matrix and the "real world" in very different ways. In the Animatrix one kid dies while waking up, and his body remains in the Matrix. In the first Matrix Neo's body just dissapears. Someone mentioned in an earlier post that Neo and Smith are battling to be the new God of the "real world" in the rain in the trailer. Seeing as though Neo and Smith are the two most unique anomalies in the history of the Matrix they could well have been chosen for a higher purpose. The need for a new God of the "real world" could be the "Why" that everyone is so concerned with throughout the movie. The movies are so based in religion that I wouldn't be surprised if it did end up being about something like that. Just my thoughts on the topic.
 

pkgrl

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Cool theory, az. And welcome aboard, btw. :D :wave:

I'll have more to say later... after I've absorbed it some more. :D Gotta go to work now. :eek:
 

timdgreat

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a question to everyone, the three agents that neo originally fought at the beginging of this movie, do u think that they were smiths?:rolly2:
 

pkgrl

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Nope. I think they were just "Thompson", "Jackson", and "Johnson." :D I do think that Smith warned Neo in a way with his "gift" before the agents showed up, but I think it was a kind of test. He wanted to see Neo fight them before he actually take him on himself. I also think that Neo sensed Smith around after the fight, but wasn't sure what it was he was feeling, so he took off, Superman style ;), to look for the Oracle.

Az: I think there may be some merit in your idea, but this
...and the world they awake to is where we see them battling in the trailer for Revolutions.
I don't buy. I think the "duel" we see in the Revolutions trailer is inside the original Matrix that we've all come to love, but things have just really come down to this one-on-one battle. I keep hearing that voice that warns Neo that "he" has to be stopped... implying Smith. Smith is really the One... the loose cannon... the unexpected anomoly. He's the one that really threatens the Matrix and humanity.

And remember that the Oracle told Neo (in Reloaded) the only way to reach the future "is together." Did she mean with machines and humans in cooperation? The way it was before humans started seeing the machines as a threat? I'd have to say yes to this as well.

Anyone else got a better idea?
 

timdgreat

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actually after much thought i cant come up with one, seems to me that u have the right idea going:rolly2:
 

pkgrl

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Okay, still reading it, but right now, I have to point out a flaw in the "Glitch" argument. The author does say that the Matrix is a physics exercise by machines and software, but seems to forget this when talking about Neo and his abilities within said Matrix. For instance, how can Neo fly at supersonic speeds and not fry off his gonads and still be able to breath? My answer: because he's inside the Matrix and since he's a thinking, creative human being, he's capable of telling himself (and believing) that "inside the Matrix, there is no spoon." In other words, there is no atmosphere with which he needs to interact. There is no air he needs to breath. There is no interferance between him and the ability to fly. Why don't people set up their entire arguement before they present it.

There are some great questions this author brings up, and I hope he answers at least some of them... especially the name stuff. :D I love hearing more about that. For example, I didn't know about his Logos reference: "The rational projection of God." Hmmmmm.
 

seventhswami

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The Matrix as Metaphor

Yeah this was pretty impressive. I caught a lot of the names and numerological references.... but I didn't notice that about the book and the AI disc... interesting stuff.

So far, the films (the animatrix included) have been breathtakingly perfect pieces of work, capturing the essential precepts of Quantum Physics, DMT and Altered States, Buddhism, Gnosticism, Programming, and the list goes on and on... The Wachowski brothers seem to have hit the same vein that Phillip K. Dick (a la Valis & Blade Runner) became obsessed with. I think the brothers are doing a service to this world by using a popular forum, like the silver screen, to introduce and re-introduce the complex theories to the gereral public.

As a student of consciousness/ physics, I tend to observe the physical references first... therefore the architect scene kept me up for nights after seeing it. My take, is that each of the screens in the Architect's room represents parallel universes... (or in the context of the movie, parallel matrices) That's why every screen showed Neo saying different things or reacting in different ways... The camera would zoom in on one screen... one decision... and then the movie would continue from there... I think this is a visual metaphor for the many-worlds theory. Like the famous Schroedinger's cat demonstration... the message here is that every possible reality exists at once. The act of deciding, or observing, determines what you experience. The architect said this to neo almost directly... telling him that the future of zion depended on HIS decision... just like Quantum Physics reveals... your expectations... your beliefs have the ability to shape the world, at an atomic level.

well anyway (I tend to ramble about these subjects :) Neo exits the Matrix and then the ship crashes and the squiddies approacheth... and then Neo says something feels funny... and he begins to realize that he has the same level of control outside of the program... My hope is that, in Revolutions, they will take off and run with the parallel words idea... That Neo learns that the Martrix is actually a cascading "worlds within worlds" model... that Zion is another aspect of the Matrix... that there are infinate levels of reality... and eventually the reality of the Matrix itself falls under scrutiny. It's a relative existence after all... Perhaps in the end, they will learn that they are not "leaving" or "entering" the Matrix after all. Maybe they'll learn that they are merely "Tessering" to other planes of experience... in some, the machines rule the earth... in others... they never did. It's a vicious circle because if this turned out to be the ultimate truth, then they could simply opt to leave... to colonize new realities... in effect, TRANCENDING the matrix altogether...

Maybe they will learn that many explanations of what is going on can exist simultaneously without any of them being wrong... for that seems to be the ultimate nature of reality from an experential point of view...

~ Swami
 

seventhswami

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Originally posted by Tabitha
The site also doesn't claim to be the be-all and end-all of Matrix explanations - I have noticed a few people and sites which claim to explain everything as if there could be no other solution - very annoying!



HAHAAA... JUST... LIKE... RELIGION!

The best metaphor is a metaphor OF a metaphor... A model of spirituality so perfect that some of the masses begin to worship the MODEL!

I tell ya, if I ever get to meet the Wachowskis, I'm buying 'em both a drink....



some interesting and related links:

Many-Worlds interpretation: http://www.innerx.net/personal/tsmith/ManyWorlds.html
http://www.innerx.net/personal/tsmith/ManyWorlds.html#expmw

the red pill?: http://www.deoxy.org/h_dmtess.htm

holographic universe:http://www.sciam.com/print_version.cfm?articleID=000AF072-4891-1F0A-97AE80A84189EEDF

extensive info on spiritual metaphor: http://www.unomaha.edu/~wwwjrf/gnostic.htm

~S
 

pkgrl

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Hey, Swami! Thanks for the links and welcome to the bboard! :wave:

I'll have to check out those links later and let you know what I think. (As if I don't have enough to read regarding the Matrix.) :D
 

pkgrl

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Originally posted by timdgreat
Another question about the Archeteict and what he said, Did he specifically say that the matrix would kill all the people in it in 24 hours? cuase i dont remember ever hearing a time limit.
Okay, I was thinking about this for the past few days, and I remembered someone in the film saying something about 24 hours or the next day (ie 24 hours later) and FINALLY put the thought and the scene together. Neo never says that the Architect told him Zion would be destroyed in 24 hours, but he was present at the "briefing" that Morpheus has with the other two ship captains and their crews before he ever meets the Architect. I think he just put together what Morpheus said about time and what the Architect said about Zion and came up with this "deadline."

Remember, Niobe asked Morpheus, "What if all this, the prophesy, everything is just bullsh*t?" Morpheus answers here, then "tomorrow we may all be dead... but how would that be different than any other day?" Perhaps Neo sort of put Morpheus and Niobe's deadline (and the fact that by the next day the machines would have dug through to Zion, based on their rate of decent) together with the Architect's assertion that Zion was about to be destroyed, and gave Morpheus and the Neb's crew the bad news that Zion only had another 24 hours. Morpheus could be the "someone" that Neo believes... or some combination in his own mind of the "truth" of what Morpheus, Niobe and the Architect all said.

Okay, maybe I'm stretching, but I knew that there was something in there somewhere about another day... besides what Neo said.
 

Brian G Turner

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Matrix Reloaded

Matrix Reloaded

Finally got to see it last night, after not being able to get a babysitter when it showed at cinema.

Anyway...superb stuff! I thought movies like that were dead! Aside from the great special effects, it actually had a plot – and, even more amazingly, it had a philosophical plot.

Okay, so the whole "free Will versus Determinism" argument has been done countless times before, in various guises – and no doubt Matrix Revolution will continue in classical fashion and make the same conclusions.

But...wow! The effect and atmosphere was great!

Some of the conflict scenes went on a little long for me, but they were always able to be innovative and carry it along.

Great overall, though – really glad I watched it – it's not often I really enjoy a film, but this was one that I really did. Best sci-fi I've watched in a very long time. :)

Will definitely aim to get a babysitter for when Matrix Revolution comes out. :D
 

mac1

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I'm glad you liked it. I loved it too. So many people hated it, and I really can't understand why. By the way, the new one's out on Wednesday ;) I'm quivering already - lol! Alien (director's cut) just came out in the cinema too! yipee! lol!
 

Brian G Turner

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I can't understand why people would hate it either.

Certainly, it can't be to everyone's tastes - but I guess maybe there was too much hype at the time of release?

Personally missed all that - which reminds me - book my mum in to babysit sometime very very soon! I would rpefer to see Matrix Revolution at cinema. I'll go ring now and put the idea forward. :)
 

Foxbat

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Okay. I'm going to be the damp squib here. I liked it but I didn't love it.
The reason? Well, the plot's not exactly original and is a bit hackneyed. Also the demarcation between plot and action was a bit too precise: Here's the action and, now, here's the plot.
I also felt that, during the explanation of the plot, the dialogue forced the film up its own backside.
Nice try. Worth watching. Good fights but, on the whole, nothing special.
I prefer the highly flawed and yet mesmeric Dark City.
 

atomik

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I liked it, not as much as the original though. One of the things I loved about the 1st one was all the surprises that came at your from nowhere. Reloaded didnt seem to have too many of those.
The highway chase scene was amazing
Cant wait till Wed
 

Brian G Turner

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Note to self - Matrix Revolutions - - - plural, Brian!


Got "Grandma" booked in for babysitting on Monday 10th. :)
 

timdgreat

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hmm i think i follow u, but there is also something else to remember, Smith changes things a little, i know he wont stop the attack on Zion, at least it doesnt look like he will, but he has messed up the machines control over the humans in the matrix:rolly2:
 

X Q mano

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I liked the first one a little better... But the second one wasn't bad either...


I'm going to see Revolutions this sunday! :)
 

pkgrl

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Well, when you can overwrite even an agent, then, yeah, I'd say that he's taken over the machine's control inside the matrix. In the Revolutions trailer
Neo says, "The program Smith has grown beyond your control."
And how! I think later today we'll be shocked just how "beyond" he really is! :alienooh:
 
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