Matrix Reloaded (2003)

Dave

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Originally posted by pkgrl
Seraph: I remember someone mentioning that the computer programs look different to Neo. That their code appeared golden/white instead of green, because we see Seraph in that golden code. But remember that Neo saw the three agents at the end of the original film in code, too, and they were green like the rest of the Matrix. Based on that, and the fact that Seraph is the only program whose code we're shown, I think that the W bros are telling us that Seraph is special.
I was just reminded that when Seraph apologised to Neo for fighting him, he said that you only really know someone when you've fought them. At the time, I just thought that that was a typical martial arts film comment, but now I was wondering if there was meant to be more to it.

Did Seraph need to fight Neo in order to read his code?

Did they swap codes during the fighting?
 

pkgrl

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Did Seraph need to fight Neo in order to read his code?

Did they swap codes during the fighting?
Doubt this second, but the first idea has some merit. Since we have no real idea of what the "humans" look like to the programs, maybe they need some kind of interaction in order to read human codes. Maybe that's why the Oracle seemed to check over Neo when she first met him....
 

Jessa

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i know u prob think i'm real stupid for asking this, but

Seraph? explain please, i can't remember
 

Dave

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When Neo was looking for the Oracle he came out of the backdoor corridors into a kind of Japanese Tea House. Her bodyguard wouldn't let him pass until they first fought together. They fought on the tables. He was Seraph.

I don't know how I remember it so well since I've only seen it once!
 

pkgrl

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You must remember it that well because he's an angel. :D

If it helps, Jessa, Seraph was wearing a white coat with a Manderine collar and had a very thick accent (and some cool, round sunglasses!). ;)
 

drdouglasp

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confused..???

Hey everybody...

I'm a bit confused here and I'm hoping that you all can help me...

alright here we go...

In the Matrix, the job of the agents is to hunt down and eliminate anyone who knows that the Matrix is a program and not real....
But, if the agents happened to kill Neo, then he wouldnt be able to fufill the prophecy of "the one"

So who are the agents working for?
It would seem counterproductive for them to be working for the architect. He needs Neo to find him so he can reboot the system and start this all over again... right??

see my confusion??
any ideas???

Thanks
dr
 

cersei

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The Agents (as does the Sentinels) do not work for the Architect as such. They are self-running programmes with simple pupose e.g. Hunt down Exiles, Rebels.

Why would they be there then? to provide the realism the rebels need to feel hunted. But in the overall scheme of things they are projected not to be able to fulfill killing The One. They may be able to kill some rebels but they won't be able to defeat the One.

Of course the "real" reason is it provide us drama for the movie :)
 

Spudnik

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its neo's destiny to get through the door to the architect.
always has, always will.

the oracle knew it, the architect knew it, but nobody else knew it.
agents were programs that tried to minimize the number of migratory minds. squiddies were machines that were designed to minimize the hacking into the matrix that the free minds do.
thats all.

as far as i can tell, at least
 

Jkaiyummie

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Hmm. I think of it this way. The Machines has belittled the humans ever since they defeated them. So they kinda think of themselves as gods. Now in religion and in mythology gods often times intervene in human history and individuals. they would cloth themselves like mortals or send messengers to prophesy and/or guide people. They would also send tests and problems to see if people are worthy and all. And, at times, gods bicker upon one another and would be against each other and when one god would send a person to do something, often times another would send his/her minions to be hurdles.

Agents are there to perhaps test the resolve of the One. also, as i see it, some machines have evolved into their own personality outside their programming (hence the rouges). And, what more, it seems as if the machines have fell victim (like the humans) to slavery. Before the Matrix was setup (in The Second Renaissance) the machines were afraid to be deleted so they created their own nation. separated themselves from the ones that destroys their individuality. in the matrix, the rouges remain hidden because their very existence is threatened by the higher up.

Perhaps Neo is the one to save them, both machines and human, from the slavery of programming and to the freedom of individuality and a choice to live. Even Smith himself, before his 'death', has evolved out of his Agent program and perhaps taking the baby steps into being a rogue.

Perhaps in the end we will see a much higher consciousness of the Machines. The original A.I. Him/Herself. Outside the Matrix. Remember, the matrix is there to keep us. There could be other programs running outside the Matrix that lives in the 'real' Machines themselves.

hope u guys understand my post hehe...
 

cersei

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Likening the entire tale into a classic mythology fable is my favourite way of looking at the Matrix. Concepts like Destiny, Causality and Choice are all common threads in these tales. And only "player" in them that can truly make Choice (ie having Free Will) are Humans

Like Gods, Machines play with us (not in pleasure seeking way but merely to increase complexity of programme)..they send in friends (eg keymaker) and foes (eg agents) but all to serve their own purposes (ie return the One to the Source)...of course as in all classic tales, there comes a time when the single human "rebels" and makes a choice that is unexpected....

How much more sci-fi opera can u get :)
 

Jessa

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Originally posted by Dave
When Neo was looking for the Oracle he came out of the backdoor corridors into a kind of Japanese Tea House. Her bodyguard wouldn't let him pass until they first fought together. They fought on the tables. He was Seraph.

I don't know how I remember it so well since I've only seen it once!
ahhhhhhh i remember now, i'm not too good with names see, even tho i saw it twice and watched 'making the matrix' and 'matrix movie house' etc millions of times
 

pkgrl

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Well, dr, if the Agents kill Neo, then it no longer is necessary for the system to be rebooted, because the rebels wil be exactly where they were before the found the One. The Agents can still do their job, as can the squiddies, as long as the One a)is killed, or b) makes it to the Source.

The loose cannon that can really screw things up for the Architect and the Matrix is Smith. He's just torqued a Neo. It's totally personal now. :evil:
 

cersei

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Neo dying though would be a total disaster for the Humans (and ultimately Machines) since if he does not return to the Source, the error will result in cataclysmic breakdown of the Matrix? or does that only build up if Neo is alive?
 

timdgreat

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im not so sure that he death of neo would be that horrible for the machines, i mean all they would have to do is wait for the next one and then try again:rolly2:
 

pkgrl

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...the error will result in cataclysmic breakdown of the Matrix? or does that only build up if Neo is alive?
Yes. Or to explain better, I think the breakdown would only occur if Neo remains alive, so I'm with timdgreat on this one. I think things would kind of level out where they are until a new One is born and found by the rebels. That could take years or decades. That's why I think that different generations of the Matrix (or different versions, if you prefer) had different life spans. I'm of the opinion that this one, version 6.0, is probably the shortest-lived because this One, Neo, is smarter than his predecessors and is catching on quicker. The only thing that delayed this version was Morpheus finding Neo so late in Neo's life. Remember, they don't free a mind beyond a certain age... it's too dangerous... but Neo was an exception. This also may be why he's catching on so quickly. He's simply more mature than his predecessors.
 

timdgreat

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also another reason why the machines most likely wouldnt worry to much if neo was killed, what is time to them i mean as far as we know its been hundreds of years since they destroyed human civilization whats a few hundred more :rolly2:
 

pkgrl

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Thanks, Tab. I'll have to check that out... when I have time.

You think the theory is sound? Or are there still questions in your mind after you read it?
 

Spudnik

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wow, tabitha, im impressed at the find, but im dissapointed at the content. i find much of it hard to believe.
but then the matrix itself is a concept that i also find hard to believe.
 

Tabitha

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Well, what I like about the author's (of the above site) take is that she or he backs up all the conjectures with mostly sensible arguments.

I think he or she imagines that there is even more of a coherent link between the first film and the sequels than we might have imagined before, and drawing some of the nuggets from the first film out into sensible conclusions is pretty interesting.

The site also doesn't claim to be the be-all and end-all of Matrix explanations - I have noticed a few people and sites which claim to explain everything as if there could be no other solution - very annoying!

Give it a read.
 
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