George R R Martin

Brian G Turner

Fantasist & Futurist
Staff member
Nov 23, 2002
Go on, then - somebody enlighten this ignoramus. :)

What does George R R Martin write about, and why is he so memorable in comparison to other fantasy authors?
Okay. He weaves a compelling story ala Jordan, and he's a masterful writer. The characters are awesome. Most of them are 'grey,' so it's not like the cliched 'here are the heros and here are the villians.' It's akin to historical fantasy, with the right amount of fantasy.

He's going to be talked about for years and years, trust me.

Milamber is right I,Brian :) George R.R. Martin is an incredible writer, a true master of his craft. Yes, he will be talked about for years to come, I second that. By the way Milamber did you get a chance to read The Hedge Knight that Mr. Martin wrote?
Not yet. I'm broke, so I get books from the local library. I'll have to go find Legends.
Well, that's certainly a starter - thanks for that. :)

And welcome to the chronicles-network, The Khan. :)

Of course, always a pleasuer to see Milamber around as well. Would you like me to add your avatar to the server at all?
Bah. George R.R. Martin is barely fantasy. At least the first two books of A Song of Fire and Ice are that way. I have book three sitting on my shelf, but due to the utter depression that the second book left me in, I'll wait a bit before I jump into his well-written world of sadness.


Hi Milamber, yes, it's definitely a good read and you will definitely enjoy it :)

Thank you, I,Brian, I'm greatful for the warm welcome :)

Twelve, you're right A Song of Ice and Fire is not fantasy in the sense of Dragonlance, it is more along the lines of High fantasy, like the Silmarillion and unless you read the third book you won't know that. Oh, yes it is indeed a sad book, Westeros is a grim world where every man and woman is in it for himself, just like real life, heh, open up the news and it's just like A Song of Ice and Fire, lol. Don't wait too long though, Twelve, because the third book is really excellent.

Hey Milamber, here is a character from the Hedge Knight, if you want to see more please let me know, enjoy:

Sir Lyonel Baratheon:

Bah back at ya Twelve! Martin's latest trilogy is no more sad than the daily newspaper! I have to agree, up to a point though, some books can be so depressing that I just can't get through them. When I was studying 20th century Russian authors I was immensely grateful that our required readings were mostly short stories and small novels. Some of the most depressing stuff I ever read. However, most of it was extremely well-written and a delight (other than the depressing stories/themes) to read.

Don't get me wrong, dwndrgn I wasn't try to "back at ya" Twelve, instead I was just trying to suggest to him that the characters of A Song of Ice and Fire are very real, as real as the people we hear about in the news. Good guys do die, people of honor who only tell the truth sometimes die because they get framed by those who are capable of lying easily. Some characters do deeds of dark evil that simply can't be explain. Little boys and little girls do suffer and witness horrors in a world gone mad. Dreams often shatter to the harsh realities of the world, and people are forced to grow up fast. Bad people can start to go down the path of righteousness and good people because of certain circumstances can easily forsake their word of honor, as most of you can attest to when Rob chose love over his word of honor to house Frey. Every action has a consequence, we remember the Red Wedding don't we ;)

One other important thing about A Song of Ice and Fire is the women characters. Mr. Martin has great understanding of women is all I can say. Take Catelyn for instance, what a wonderful mother to her children, but do you see the way that she treats Jon, the ******* of her husband. There are so many WONDERFUL women characters that I'll let you check it out for yourselves. I've read a lot of fantasy books and not many women characters can stand up to the women of A Song of Ice and Fire.

George R.R. Martin's characters are not just good, neutral, and evil. They all have their own goals and if two individual's goals conflict then they oppose one another, and it is up to the reader to decide who is good or evil according to your own life's experiences. For example in the beginning of chapter one someone is being executed for deserting his post on the Wall, but in the prologue, the reader gets to see what he saw, horrors of legend that traumatized the poor guy. Did he deserve death or life? Only the reader can decide and every reader will decide differently :)

Oh by the way dwndrgn, here is Dunk aka Ser Duncan the Tall:
Oh, I didn't think you were putting down Twelve and I certainly wasn't! I just love the use of that word. Hard to use in daily life, you say 'Bah!' to someone and they think you are either imitating a sheep or a little loopy in the head.

Everyone's opinion is just that, an opinion and I wouldn't want anyone to not give theirs. That's what this forum is all about.

I read the first book so many books ago I would have to go back and read it again to give my thoughts on it.

There are some great, strong female characters in today's fantasy. I would name a few but my connection is so slow at the moment it has taken me forever to get this much down. Maybe tomorrow I'll start a thread on the topic. We can take a poll and see who's women are the most realistic and 'fleshed-out' and not just reflections of the male characters.

Thanks for clearing that for me, my friend. I guess that's why I'm a newbie on the boards, you can always spot one a mile away, since they have no clue, lol. Here I was afraid that I had started a war between you and Twelve, what was I thinking, lol.

I'd love to hear your thoughts, dwndrgn, but even if you don't have any thoughts I will be putting up different character sketches so please feel free to add any inputs that you might have.

I'd love to post on a thread on the topic as well, my friend. I will keep my eyes open so that I can post on it too. Thanks.
That's the great thing about Martin. Breaks out of the character class cliche, and doesn't feel the need to conform to the 'if it hasn't got a load of magic it isn't fantasy' school of thought.

And he has the balls to write what he need to.
George Martin can write very just barely fits in the fantasy genre. If it helps to fit him in the sub-genre of high fantasy, then so be it...but the best works of fantasy throughout history always contained much more fantasy then Martin's world. I consider "high" fantasy to be Homer's works, the Faerie Queen, Paradise Lost...and these contained fantasy.

Still true that his writing is depressing, simply because it IS so true to reality(which again is the opposite of fantasy). I can very well imagine many of the things happening in his books in real life, which makes me sad.

Like when that lady in book two was captured by an evil lord for her land, locked in a room, and they found her weeks later. Her hands were bloody because she was eating her fingers off.

Perhaps what hit me was just how matter-of-fact it was described.

Also, Martin doesn't let two pages go by without describing some kind of sexuality, and usually the raping kind.

As for Catelyn, after book 2 I got sick of her complaining. It's almost as if she is the character in the book who is thrown in there to make everybody feel even more depressed about the crap going on in the world.

I suppose that if you haven't seen much in life then this book can be an education on reality. For others, it's just a reminder of things that we don't want to think about.

As you can see, I'm not yet ready to read book 3.

Those are some very nice illustrations - I especially like the use of lighting -the background on Egg, the folds in Aerion's loak...and especially the metallic sheen on Sir Lyonel Baratheon.

Hey Twelve, how are you doing? It's good to hear from you again. I'm not sure if you can say that George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire is not fantasy until you read book three. You have not completely read it yet, and I know for a fact that the majority of the fantasy elements that were hinted in book one and two comes out in full force in book three. I'm willing to wait for you to read book three so that we can discuss it, because I don't want to give any of the surprises away. What do you think?

As to George R.R. Martin being depressing, well you have to keep in mind that Paradise Lost by Milton is depressing, Lucifer rebels against God and brings the entire world into sin that is not uplifting at all, although, I've read it and it is a beautiful literary work. Homer's Iliad is a tragedy, and depressing to boot. Achilles kills Hector and drags his body around the city of Troy, Ajax commits suicide, and Cassandra gets raped, Troy is destroyed and the men and women are enslaved. Odysseus voyage back home is depressing as well, but in the end good triumphed. If you had stopped reading Odysseus journey right up to the part when all of the men are turned into pigs then you would never had a chance to get to the end and enjoy the wonderful ending that came at the end. Here is a link to the House of Atreus in which Menelaus and Agamemnon were descended from:

I urge you to give the third book a chance just as you did Homer and Milton, you will find that it is truly a high fantasy book and we have yet to read the final book in the series in order for us to see if good does triumph over evil. What do you think?

Hey I,Brian,

I'm really happy that you liked the pictures :) Here is another from George R.R. Martin's The Hedge Knight:


dwndrgn said:
The Khan: are these your drawings or are these from somewhere else? I like them as well but didn't want to compliment the wrong person.
Hey dwndrgn, how's your day going so far? The character sketches were done by superstar comic book artist Mike S. Miller. He is the art director of Roaring Studios, which my brothers and I (the Dabel Brothers) own. Mike is currently working on George R.R. Martin's the Hedge Knight comic book. Here is a link to a five page previews of The Hedge Knight#1 and #2:

The Hedge Knight issue #1, five page preview, enjoy:
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The Hedge Knight issue #2, five page preview, enjoy:
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