Does a book need to justify being SFF?

[donrmontgomery]

The only thing that matters is what you want to write. Contemporary fiction sells more books, but most of the most successful movies in the last 10 years have been science fiction. People want SF - not just because it allows them to escape the mundane reality we live in, but because it allows us to explore topics that might be otherwise uncomfortable without having people get defensive and angry.

My vote is to write the story how you want it to be - whether its heavy or light on SFF or whatever. The most authentic work you can produce is true to the vision you have and your own desire as a writer. It's also the best writing you can do because it's tapping into your passion.

 

[Swank]

I fear we are going down the familiar path of discussing written material in theory, with the theories being so thin that there is no useful information to pass on.

Can the OP write a good book that way? Sure. Could it be better? Everything could be better. Is it a problem? No, yes, maybe.


Little point in these discussions.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Little point in these discussions.

Well, I can't agree with that. It's true that sometimes these discussions do end up being essentially pointless, but sometimes . . . well, it's not the discussion that the various participants have with each other, so much as the discussion it sparks inside the writer's own private thoughts. The discussion whereby, in rejecting other people's opinions and suggestions, and coming up with arguments explaining why, one comes closer to understanding what it is that they really want to do, why they want to do it, and how they might possibly do it better than they originally thought of doing it.

At least in my own experience, back when I was an active member of a writing group, and when I was receiving input from various editors, that is what sometimes happened for me.

And sometimes, actually quite often, the value of such discussions doesn't become clear until later—perhaps much, much later—as the ideas discussed have time to gestate in the mind, and eventually come forth as something wonderful and unexpected. Or not. At this point, it's too soon to tell.

But anything that stimulates our thoughts and challenges us to clarify our intentions, is not going to be a total waste of time.

 

[Swank]

Well, I can't agree with that. It's true that sometimes these discussions do end up being essentially pointless, but sometimes . . . well, it's not the discussion that the various participants have with each other, so much as the discussion it sparks inside the writer's own private thoughts. The discussion whereby, in rejecting other people's opinions and suggestions, and coming up with arguments explaining why, one comes closer to understanding what it is that they really want to do, why they want to do it, and how they might possibly do it better than they originally thought of doing it.

At least in my own experience, back when I was an active member of a writing group, and when I was receiving input from various editors, that is what sometimes happened for me.

And sometimes, actually quite often, the value of such discussions doesn't become clear until later—perhaps much, much later—as the ideas discussed have time to gestate in the mind, and eventually come forth as something wonderful and unexpected. Or not. At this point, it's too soon to tell.

But anything that stimulates our thoughts and challenges us to clarify our intentions, is not going to be a total waste of time.

Counterpoint - talking about something as elusive as creative writing absent any sort of concrete examples is the root of confirmation bias and the reason that misleading "rules of thumb" get repeated until they sound like truth.

Yes, any mental stimulation can expand your horizons. Viewing the lake, for example. Or receiving editorial feedback on an actual piece.


I wish just one of the writers seeking clarity would post a pertinent writing example or a synopsis so we could talk about writing, rather than talk about talking about writing.

 

[Phyrebrat]

I wish just one of the writers seeking clarity would post a pertinent writing example or a synopsis so we could talk about writing, rather than talk about talking about

This is a sort of feature of Chrons, tho. Rather than give an empirical answer, often people (posters) are helped just by the engagement a post receives. I get frustrated about this too (the thing you’re taking about, that is) but realise there is a value-added element that helps (the OP and possibly other lurkers) in terms of feeling their way through what a writer’s experience and expectations may be.

For me, my answer’ll usually be a ‘write what you want to write, the way you want to’ but if they’re seeking advice about the actual nuts n bolts of writing I’ll tend to get more involved.

I’d also wonder where the OP posts is of importance — ie writing forum will be asking about their own practices and for help/permission whereas the books forum and SF lounge (?) may be more suited to the kind of subject you’re after interrogating in this instance.

I remember when I was new here, I’d never written anything creative and was probably flooding the place with questions that might’ve seemed banal (nb I’m not applying this to the OP, to be clear).

From what I know of you, you’re a deep person into deep discussions and I enjoy reading your take on things, seldom getting involved because I don’t have a clue or opinion. I wonder if the OP is just finding their feet and might end up even more unsure if we go so deep in a thread that’s really only asking us a simple thing.

Course, I say all this without knowing what my reaction would be if we were taking about weird fiction or horror…

 

[Swank]

This is a sort of feature of Chrons, tho. Rather than give an empirical answer, often people (posters) are helped just by the engagement a post receives. I get frustrated about this too (the thing you’re taking about, that is) but realise there is a value-added element that helps (the OP and possibly other lurkers) in terms of feeling their way through what a writer’s experience and expectations may be.

For me, my answer’ll usually be a ‘write what you want to write, the way you want to’ but if they’re seeking advice about the actual nuts n bolts of writing I’ll tend to get more involved.

I’d also wonder where the OP posts is of importance — ie writing forum will be asking about their own practices and for help/permission whereas the books forum and SF lounge (?) may be more suited to the kind of subject you’re after interrogating in this instance.

I remember when I was new here, I’d never written anything creative and was probably flooding the place with questions that might’ve seemed banal (nb I’m not applying this to the OP, to be clear).

From what I know of you, you’re a deep person into deep discussions and I enjoy reading your take on things, seldom getting involved because I don’t have a clue or opinion. I wonder if the OP is just finding their feet and might end up even more unsure if we go so deep in a thread that’s really only asking us a simple thing.

Course, I say all this without knowing what my reaction would be if we were taking about weird fiction or horror…

Don't worry, my diabolical opinions of the discussion are unlikely to rock the boat. I would just invite writers to make more use of the varied expertise available.

 

[Phyrebrat]

The irony not rocking the boat… isn’t it incumbent on you SF writers? As opposed to horror writers who just moan about what we already have

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Counterpoint - talking about something as elusive as creative writing absent any sort of concrete examples is the root of confirmation bias

If you mean that people who ask these kinds of questions, without providing examples of their writing, are more likely to pay attention to advice and opinions that echo what they already think, or what they want to hear, and ignore everything else, that is not exactly true. Yes, I have seen it happen many times, but about as often as it happens when people do put something online for critique.

 

[Toby Frost]

I used to be in a writing group where people wrote in a lot of different genres at different levels. I came to think that a lot of less-confident writers wanted to keep asking "Is it okay for me to continue?". The answer is almost always "Yes", although this isn't always a very helpful answer (a WIP would have to be pretty damn flawed for me to confidently say "No, stop right now"). While this could be a bit tiring (here's the 900th installment of Bob's epic novel, after we heard the 899th at the last meeting) it's a question that people needed to ask.

Unfortunately, while it's quite easy to write a book that isn't very good, it is quite hard to write something that is just so fundamentally awful, or doesn't work on a very basic level, that you ought not to be doing it. So the answer to "Can I do this?" is usually "Yes, but try to do it well". You could add to that "Don't expect it to be to everyone's tastes" but that probably goes for anything.

 

[msstice]

But anything that stimulates our thoughts and challenges us to clarify our intentions, is not going to be a total waste of time.

I wish just one of the writers seeking clarity would post a pertinent writing example or a synopsis so we could talk about writing, rather than talk about talking about writing.

Correct ...

 

[The Big Peat]

The point that this would be a better conversation with concrete material to talk about is a good one. For all we know, we could read the OP's stuff and go "what were you even worrying about, this reads great as sci-fi, sheesh, this guy"... or we could have the opposite.

I'd never dismiss the value of discussing hypotheticals, but I think it's a fairly solid piece of writing advice that you can write just about anything if you sell it well enough - which means very often the answer is "don't know, did you sell it well enough, can't answer that without seeing the product" - which means concrete material is often more valuable.

You can give an answer of "you can absolutely write this but it might be a harder sell than tweaking the story in a different direction" but that ignores that

a) passion effects skill and that we never know exactly how passionate the writer is about each idea (conversely - if this conversation makes a writer realise they are passionate about something, that is most definitely very valuable), and as such, we never know exactly how good they'll be at executing and selling each idea

b) also that great art sometimes relies on doing something that's a harder sell and advising an author to write more acceptable ideas is doing them a massive disservice by steering them away from this.

As such, I advise the OP to keep doing what they want until they feel like they have enough material to ask people to take a look at it. Not necessarily the whole story, but enough that we get the flavour of what it'll be. Then they can ask people whether that's a problem with the concrete material.

 

[paranoid marvin]

More than two hundred years after it was written, there is still debate as to whether Mary Shelley's Frankenstein is science fiction, horror, fantasy or even romance. I would plump for horror, as that was the intention of the author (although perhaps not the intention of her husband, when he helped her to modify the tale). But in truth it's a mixtute of all four.

Personally I'm happy to see any story that features aliens, spaceships and other planets as science fiction. It's not always good science fiction, but then again neither are some of the works that feature more in depth, 'harder', SF.

But everyone will have their own opinion, and you will never satisfy all of the people all of the time, nor will they all have the same view on whether your story classes as science fiction or not. But usually, most people won't even consider whether it fits into a specific genre. They will either think that your story is an interesting one with engaging characters - or they won't.

So write your story the way you want to write it, and let your readers decide whether they think you made the right calls or not.

 

[THX1138]

Mary Shelley's Frankenstein is science fiction, horror, fantasy or even romance.

And look at all of the variation of the Canterbury Tales that have been written in almost every genre out there.

 

[msstice]

And look at all of the variation of the Canterbury Tales that have been written in almost every genre out there.

I've never read them. I should I guess because many people refer to them. Are they great writing, or more of a common cultural reference point for Anglophiles.

 

[Parson]

I've never read them. I should I guess because many people refer to them. Are they great writing, or more of a common cultural reference point for Anglophiles.

I would say their age plays a big role in it. They are a fairly interesting collection of short stories. But I wouldn't see them as being "must read" material save from their historical importance.

 

[paranoid marvin]

The Canterbury Tales are proof that whilst times have changed, people have not. Chaucer's stories in their original format will be unintelligible to most people, but - just like with Shakespeare - many modern stories have their basis in his work.

It is one of the great literary tragedies that the author died before his pilgrims reached their destination.

 

[THX1138]

I've never read them. I should I guess because many people refer to them. Are they great writing, or more of a common cultural reference point for Anglophiles.

More for inspiration than anything else, like Dan Simmins Hyperion just to name one.
Like PM just said, Shakespeare's works have also been reinvented into other genera's as well. Just like many the folk lore and fables that have been used for inspiration.

Even The Hunt for Red October is based on Moby Dick.

 

[msstice]

Even The Hunt for Red October is based on Moby Dick.

Really? I never made the connection. I read MD a while ago and watched Red October some time after that but also a long time ago.

 

[THX1138]

@msstice The lone whaler hunting the great big whale. The US navy hunting the great big Russian sub.
No, not the same story, but a good inspiration for a modern sub hunt with a twist.

 

[The Big Peat]

Another example of a story transposed across milieus would be the movie and book The Warriors, which is based on Xenophon's Anabasis.